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1954 HMV radiogram record player change.

ZJS

Sep 2, 2023
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Hi.
I have a 1954 HMV radiogram which turns on and the radio works. The record player produced no sound when played and also the very old stylus for 33s and 45s had broken so I thought it was time to change the record player.

I bought a 70s ITT record player which had a BSR turntable in it.
I took the BSR out of the record player, cutting the wires leading in and out leaving them as long as possible.
(I think the blue and brown going into the motor is the live and neutral power for the motor. And the grey wire leading out is the sound output from the stylus.
The grey wire has four little wires coming out of it.

The old record player for the radiogram plugged it via a yellow and black single plug next to where I’m assuming the radio plugs in.

I have seen people replace their radiogram record player with a BSR or a Garrard before so it’s just a case of what to do and how to wire it up?

Thank you
 

ZJS

Sep 2, 2023
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Here are the photos
 

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Bluejets

Oct 5, 2014
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The grey with four cores.....braid is outer sheath, outer connection on each of the sound signal plug, the other two insulated cables are the inner signal to each plug.
 

ZJS

Sep 2, 2023
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Hi
Thanks for replying.
Does that mean that the insulated red-blue wires don’t matter?
 

ZJS

Sep 2, 2023
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Where do the 4 little wires go on the radiogram?
 

Delta Prime

Jul 29, 2020
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I bought a 70s ITT record player which had a BSR turntable in it
What model Birmingham Sound Reproducers (BSR) did you rip the guts out of?
these are a few 1970,71. Record player turntables.

260 McDonald change sheet (use C129 service manual)2Turntable
400 McDonald installation & service instructionsTurntable
500 McDonald installation & service instructions (see UA70 above)Turntable
500A McDonald installation & service instructions (see MA-70 also)Turntable
510, 610 & MP60 McDonald installation & service instructionsTurntable
600 McDonald installation & service instructionsTurntable
710 Parts List & Mounting TemplateTurntable
810 service manual (see 710 for mounting template
Component 50 watt AM FM Stereo Receiver Systemservice manual
260 McDonald change sheet (use C129 service manual)2Turntable
400 McDonald installation & service instructionsTurntable
500 McDonald installation & service instructions (see UA70 above)Turntable
500A McDonald installation & service instructions (see MA-70 also)Turntable
510, 610 & MP60 McDonald installation & service instructionsTurntable
600 McDonald installation & service instructionsTurntable
710 Parts List & Mounting TemplateTurntable
810 service manual (see 710 for mounting template)Turntable

810QX, 710QX, 2620W, 2520W, 2510X, 2310X, 2260X, 6500BX, 4800BX,2000AX, 4620W, 4310X, TD8S, TD8SW, TD8QW, FEW-2, FEW-3, FEW-4 & SLM-1 BSM McDonald product guide brochure (color) 1970/71 BSR McDonald Automatic Turntables and accessories Advance Product Line Information brochure

AA47 SeriesTurntableservice manual
AA50 Series (AA50/5, AA50/6 & AA50/5D2)Turntableservice manual
Accutrac 4000Turntableservice manual
AT-100, AT-105 & AT-110 (formerly Glenburn AT-100, AT-105 & AT-110)Record Playerservice manual
C109 & C110Record Playerservice manual
C114 & C115Record Playerservice manual
C115RTurntableservice manual
C116Turntableservice manual
C117 & C117A3Record Playerservice manual
C123Turntableservice manual
C123R1Record Playerservice manual
C124 & McDonald 210Record Playerservice manual
C127 & C138 (use C114 & C115 service manual)Record Playerchange sheet
C127R & C138R (use C114 & C115 service manual)Record Playerchange sheet
C129Record Playerservice manual
C129RRecord Playerservice manual
C129R1Record Playerservice manual
C130 (McDonald 310)Record Playerservice manual
C131R (McDonald 510, 610 & MP60) (use C142 service manual)Record Playerchange sheet
C136 (Glenburn 900-A)Record Playerservice manual
C136R (use C136 manual)Record Playerservice manual
C141 & C141RRecord Playerservice manual
C142 & C142A3Record Playerservice manual
C142R (C 142 R) (use service manual C 142)Turntable change sheet
C154Record Playerservice manual
C159Record Playerservice manual
C-163Record Playerservice manual
C-164Record Playerservice manual
C-165Record Playerservice manual
C-166Record Playerservice manual
C-173Record Playerservice manual
C180 & C181Record Playerservice manual
C-182Record Playerservice manual
C-185Record Playerservice manual
C-186Record Playerservice manual
C197 Automatic Turntableservice manual
C198Automatic Turntableservice manual
C205/4PAutomatic Belt Drive TTservice manual
C205/24PAutomatic Belt Drive TTservice manual
C-
 

ZJS

Sep 2, 2023
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Sep 2, 2023
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41
Hi.
It’s just the usual bsr turntable.
I’ve actually managed to get power to the bsr turntable by connecting a wire from the old ‘motor’ slot to the motor wire.
Now the BSR is powered by the radiogram.

It’s just what to do with the little 4 wires now
 

Delta Prime

Jul 29, 2020
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Jul 29, 2020
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2,118
It’s just what to do with the little 4 wires now
The reason why I asked what model number was it is because I would like to give you the proper information and the schematics are available online readily but I need to know which one; the schematic will tell us what the little four wires do so we can terminate them properly.
 

ZJS

Sep 2, 2023
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Sep 2, 2023
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Hi.
The BSR turntable came out of an ITT KA1026.
The BSR turntable has a sticker on the underside. See the photo below
Thank you
 

ZJS

Sep 2, 2023
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This is the BSR sticker
 

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kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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Where do the 4 little wires go on the radiogram?
Not '4-wires' but two independent screened audio cables. Potentially they might go to the volume control - and back again. i.e the blue carries the audio TO the volume control and the red carries it BACK to the amplifier.

Another potential route is from the record deck pick up arm - the signal from the 'needle' and will carry the audio to 'where ever'.

Not enough information to determine the answer though. You can be assured they don't carry any power so they can be taped up and left alone if all you want is power to the turntable.
 

ZJS

Sep 2, 2023
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Hi

I want the turntable sound to work via connecting it to the original amplifier. The old amplifier has a yellow and black port for the old record player to plug into. But they are just singular wire plugs. The thing is… I’ve got 4 little wires to deal with.

Thank you
 

ZJS

Sep 2, 2023
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Another thing is there is no pre amp in the BSR so the 4 wires are just extended wires from the tonearm.
Basically the little 4 wires is purely what the stylus has picked up
 

ZJS

Sep 2, 2023
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I found a longer wire which plugs into the original amplifier. It has an exposed wire (which ends just before the plug- looks like it’s made like this) and an insulated wire. Could this be what I need to wire the BSR audio output to?
Thank you
 

ZJS

Sep 2, 2023
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Sep 2, 2023
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Here it is
May need a replacement as it’s old and I also need 2 as there are 4 little wires and this only covers 2 of them
 

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Bluejets

Oct 5, 2014
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Another thing is there is no pre amp in the BSR
Most likely doesn't need one.
What you do need is a schematic of the amplifier .
What you should have done was note where the originals came from.

These (RCA) plugs are most likely what you require (2 of) for your signal in.
Grey cable with 4 cores......Shield (braid) goes to outer ring from each signal cable.
Other 2 insulated (red and blue) go to inner pin on each plug.
A single pin "banana plug" simply won't do. It will get 50hz hum without the shielding.

Appears in photo 6 someone has already (poked) bare wires in the correct sockets on the turntable (photo 6)
As for the amp end, as you didn't or couldn't note where they came from, you will as said above require a schematic just to be certain.

Be very careful about just poking wires in here and there willy-nilly as there are high voltages (both AC and DC) in there that will blow your newly acquired turntable to dust.(well, carbon really)
Would have been common to have sockets on the rear of the valve amp for the turntable.
Connected most likely to a selector switch for radio/gram.
 
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kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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The tone arm clearly has a stereo pickup and your amplifier has a mono input. Tie the two screens (braids) together and connect that to the braid of the amplifier input. Connect a 1k ohm resistor to each of the other wires (red and blue). Connect the free ends of the resistors together and then to the yellow amplifier input (banana plug).

The two tied-together ends of the 1k ohm resistors 'may' require a capacitor in series for DC blocking - but I doubt it.
 

ZJS

Sep 2, 2023
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Sep 2, 2023
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Hi,
Thanks for the taking the time to reply.

Would it matter if the turntable is stereo and the amplifier is mono?

As you’ve said I need to connect the red inner wire to the center pin wire and the shield wire to the shield wire. Just matching up.
And then for the other grey wire I do the same thing but on the second plug.

The only thing is: the 2 plugs that go into the amplifier are yellow and black so I’d need to get them the right way round.
Also, does anyone know what the old wire/ plug (which plugs into the amplifier) is called?
I need replacements as it is too short and I need 2 of them (yellow and black)

Thank you
 

kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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The plugs are called BANANA plugs (4mm). You are unlikely to get them in the same size/shape as the old version you now have but the modern ones, although longer, will fit the socket.
Screenshot from 2024-01-21 10-44-54.png

To repeat (and perhaps clarify) connect the RED and BLUE together and then to the YELLOW plug. Connect all the braids together and to the BLACK plug.

It MAY be the case that you require a 'balancing' resistor on each of the RED and BLUE wires. In which case you connect one end of the resistor to the RED wire and the other end to the YELLOW plug. Do the same for the BLUE wire with another resistor.
 
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