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A reminder to our Australian brethren

J

J. Clarke

Jan 1, 1970
0
Having just had some Australian newbie go off on me for suggesting
that everyone doesn't have the option of building his own solar house,
and bearing in mind that there is a significant Australian presence
here, I think a reminder is in order.

Australians are very fortunate people in terms of land availability
and climate.

The New York metropolitan area has a population about the same as the
whole of Australia, in approximately 1/1000 the area. Half of that
population lives in an area of 785 square kilometers.

New York is not the largest city in the world, and its population
density is not even the highest in the United States.

Also consider that the average July minimum temperature Hobart is
4.5C, while the average January minimum in NYC is -5C, and has on
several occasions gone below the -9.4C that is the lowest temperature
ever recorded anywhere in Australia.

Then consider that there are several other cities in North America
with similar population densities--Chicago for example has half the
population of Australia in about 5000 square kilometers--and even
colder, again Chicago has an average January low of -8C. But that's
balmy compared Yakutsk, where the January average _high_ is
about -40C. And then there is Norilsk, which is slightly warmer than
Yakutsk, but they have six weeks in the coldest part of the year in
which there is no sunlight at all. Fat lot of good solar heat is
going to do _there_.

And then consider that New York is only the 90th most densely
populated city--Mumbai, India has approximately the same population as
the whole of Australia living in an area of about 400 square
kilometers. Do you really think that building your own solar house is
a viable option for people living there?

While you, personally, may have no trouble finding a cheap piece of
land with a good southern exposure and building something on it that
can cope with the relatively mild conditions that you experience,
consider that you, as a group, represent about a third of a percent of
the world population, and that the rest of the world may not be quite
as blessed as you are in terms of land availability and mildness of
climate. When you start to assert that "everybody" can do something,
consider those 20 million in Mumbai, or the 200,000 or so in Norilsk.
 
Having just had some Australian newbie go off on me for suggesting
that everyone doesn't have the option of building his own solar house,

Let me guess. 1. It was a guy who has a "solar" house that's 99%
powered by fuel burning (propane, gasoline and wood), is limited to 1
(one) kWh per day of solar electricity, requires a generator for any
load over a few hundred watts, and even after 20 years is still
burning fuel to heat water instead of using the simplest of solar
tech. 2. He neglected to mention any of the preceding, or that he's
the subject of two web sites parodying his wisdumb
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/tbfduwisdumb.htm and celebrating his
nuttiness http://www.lowexpecations.com/. If that's the guy, then it's
relatively easy to modify any home to be equally "solar". But few in
the developed world would want to live with those limitations.
<clikitty clack clikity clik clak> What's that sound? It's the typing
of a messertation soon to be belched, explaining how anybody who can't
live on 1 kWh per day and *like* it, or who isn't interested in making
generator use a routine part of household chores, doesn't understand
deezine, must be a lazy American, yada yada.

Wayne
 
J

J. Clarke

Jan 1, 1970
0
Let me guess. 1. It was a guy who has a "solar" house that's 99%
powered by fuel burning (propane, gasoline and wood), is limited to
1
(one) kWh per day of solar electricity, requires a generator for any
load over a few hundred watts, and even after 20 years is still
burning fuel to heat water instead of using the simplest of solar
tech. 2. He neglected to mention any of the preceding, or that he's
the subject of two web sites parodying his wisdumb
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/tbfduwisdumb.htm and celebrating his
nuttiness http://www.lowexpecations.com/. If that's the guy, then
it's
relatively easy to modify any home to be equally "solar". But few
in
the developed world would want to live with those limitations.
<clikitty clack clikity clik clak> What's that sound? It's the
typing
of a messertation soon to be belched, explaining how anybody who
can't
live on 1 kWh per day and *like* it, or who isn't interested in
making
generator use a routine part of household chores, doesn't understand
deezine, must be a lazy American, yada yada.

Might have been him. He's in the killfile now.
 
I

Iona

Jan 1, 1970
0
Having just had some Australian newbie go off on me for suggesting
that everyone doesn't have the option of building his own solar house,
and bearing in mind that there is a significant Australian presence
here, I think a reminder is in order.


Gunna Ghio is no "newbie", point One. Point Two? GG is of Canadian origins
and as per like statistics for any population spread is defined as a "minority"
in Canada or anywhere else GG would choose to reside.
SolarFart shares the GG stereotype, you are the "newbie" when you fail to
recognise the shared reactive impulse of these two Canadian shit-stirrers.

Your reminder is "out of order" as the axle is broken.
Australians are very fortunate people in terms of land availability
and climate.


Incorrect, for the masses.
The New York metropolitan area has a population about the same as the
whole of Australia, in approximately 1/1000 the area. Half of that
population lives in an area of 785 square kilometers.

New York is not the largest city in the world, and its population
density is not even the highest in the United States.


Unfortunate you quoted New York data. Yonkers persons are
(generically)
loud mouthed insular know nothing persons the USA would be far
better off (internationally) in disenfranchising.
Also consider that the average July minimum temperature Hobart is
4.5C, while the average January minimum in NYC is -5C, and has on
several occasions gone below the -9.4C that is the lowest temperature
ever recorded anywhere in Australia.

Then consider that there are several other cities in North America
with similar population densities--Chicago for example has half the
population of Australia in about 5000 square kilometers--and even
colder, again Chicago has an average January low of -8C. But that's
balmy compared Yakutsk, where the January average _high_ is
about -40C. And then there is Norilsk, which is slightly warmer than
Yakutsk, but they have six weeks in the coldest part of the year in
which there is no sunlight at all. Fat lot of good solar heat is
going to do _there_.


The same can be said for a great many locations in Australia.
Equally so for solar input of any type, not just space reheat.
However, as in the USA, the whole of the National environment
can (and does) make use of solar renewables, held back only
by manipulative circumstance in preference for fossil and nuclear
resource. Storing oil , coal and gas is easy, storing electricity isnt.
And then consider that New York is only the 90th most densely
populated city--Mumbai, India has approximately the same population as
the whole of Australia living in an area of about 400 square
kilometers. Do you really think that building your own solar house is
a viable option for people living there?


Try exporting the technology instead of your own jobs, to India.
Seek an answer in the five years following that initiative.
While you, personally, may have no trouble finding a cheap piece of
land with a good southern exposure and building something on it that
can cope with the relatively mild conditions that you experience,
consider that you, as a group, represent about a third of a percent of
the world population, and that the rest of the world may not be quite
as blessed as you are in terms of land availability and mildness of
climate. When you start to assert that "everybody" can do something,
consider those 20 million in Mumbai, or the 200,000 or so in Norilsk.


Minimise Australia in whatever fashion you wish to, the facts are we
lead the World in many aspects of technology and initiative. Deny it
was our new government that finally got the USA to the carbon trading
table. And it is an Australian company that is fueling the Chinese push
for wind turbine installation in it's energy race.
Should you yourself genuinely ache for an existence that is mostly
self-sufficient or one that contributes to community infrastructure, in terms
of renewables, then you will seek solutions and _do_ something.
Really this is what GG is hingeing his whole rhetoric on, succeeding
in having you hop from foot to foot!
The fact that GG has his own jerry-built humpy with enough energy input
to fire up a new Dell is of none to little consequence in the whole of the
picture. He could sell the whole she-bang tomorrow at auction. Some
equally ill informed "pie in the sky" hopeful will eagerly snap it up, drafts,
poor sullage and "gadgets" included! Gunna Ghio's contribution is that
tangible.

Bottom line is, GG has done _something_, whilst persons of your mindset
can do little more than post speculative shite then sit back and take
umbrage at whatever comes your way.. from Australia or anywhere else.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message-ID: <f90a7a47-950b-4559-af66-99152e3a5dc0@f10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>
"Is it just me or is solar energy really just a sham. The way I figure
it we would have to cover 14 million sq km with PV cells by 2050 to
satisfy world enery needs, assuming current growth rates and all other
things being equal. Worse, owing to inefficiencies in the system solar
PV will actually add to global warming. PV might look good on the
roof, it might 'feel good' but it isn't going to solve the problems we
face."
 
T

Terryc

Jan 1, 1970
0
J. Clarke said:
Having just had some Australian newbie go off on me for suggesting
that everyone doesn't have the option of building his own solar house,
and bearing in mind that there is a significant Australian presence
here, I think a reminder is in order.

Australians are very fortunate people in terms of land availability
and climate.

lol, AFAIK, both countries suffer from the same problem, where ever I
could afford the land to build my own solar home, there isn't the
employment to allow me to do so. <shrug>
 
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