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Advantages of photonics -- other than bandwidth -- over electronics

R

Radium

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi:

One advantage of photonics over electronics is more bandwidth but that
is only one of several advantages. Others are greater clarity, less
overheating, more resistance to EMI/ RFI, greater S/N ratio.

So its not just bandwidth.

People in the groups I post to keep telling me that the only advantage
of photonics over electronics is bandwidth. That is so wrong.


Regards,

Radium
 
P

Phineas T Puddleduck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Radium said:
Hi:

One advantage of photonics over electronics is more bandwidth but that
is only one of several advantages. Others are greater clarity, less
overheating, more resistance to EMI/ RFI, greater S/N ratio.

So its not just bandwidth.

People in the groups I post to keep telling me that the only advantage
of photonics over electronics is bandwidth. That is so wrong.


Regards,

Radium


Have you noticed that Fox's Crinkle Crunch biscuits break really easily
in tea? That is so wrong.

Yours faithfully

LT.Brig. A Mullins (Miss), Retd

--
The greatest enemy of science is pseudoscience.

Jaffa cakes. Sweet delicious orangey jaffa goodness, and an abject lesson why
parroting information from the web will not teach you cosmology.

Official emperor of sci.physics, head mumbler of the "Cult of INSANE SCIENCE".
Please pay no attention to my butt poking forward, it is expanding.

Relf's Law?
"Bullshit repeated to the limit of infinity asymptotically approaches
the odour of roses."
 
R

Radium

Jan 1, 1970
0
Radium said:
Hi:

One advantage of photonics over electronics is more bandwidth but that
is only one of several advantages. Others are greater clarity, less
overheating, more resistance to EMI/ RFI, greater S/N ratio.

Oh and another advantage of photonics over electronics is greater
dynamic range.
 
In sci.physics Radium said:
One advantage of photonics over electronics is more bandwidth but that
is only one of several advantages. Others are greater clarity, less
overheating, more resistance to EMI/ RFI, greater S/N ratio.

So called "clarity" is a function of bandwidth.

Overheating of what?

EMI resistance for fiber optics should be obvious.

The S/N ratio of what?

You do realize the "electronics" that "photonics" replaces is wire,
don't you.
So its not just bandwidth.

That is correct, but it is the primary reason in 99% of all applications.
People in the groups I post to keep telling me that the only advantage
of photonics over electronics is bandwidth. That is so wrong.

The comparison is fiber optic cable versus wire.

There are no "photonic" circuits outside of Star Trek.

There are some lab attempts to make things like "photonic" logic and
"photonic" dipoles with rectifiers for light to DC conversion, but
nothing anyone would call a "photonic circuit".
 
Oh and another advantage of photonics over electronics is greater
dynamic range.

Total and utter nonsense. You obviously have no clue what dynamic
range means.

Wire routinely carries megavolts and megamps across the country.

The same wire could (if there was a reason to do so) carry microvolts
and microamps.

Try that with optics.
 
R

Radium

Jan 1, 1970
0
So called "clarity" is a function of bandwidth.

Bandwidth deals solely with frequency. Clarity deals both with
frequency and amplitude.
Overheating of what?

Wires vs. optics fibers. Semiconductors vs. crystals.
EMI resistance for fiber optics should be obvious.

Thats another advantage photonics has over electronics. Photonics are
less vulnerable to EMI/RFI than electronics.
The S/N ratio of what?

Photonic components vs. electronic components.
You do realize the "electronics" that "photonics" replaces is wire,
don't you.

And semiconductors?
That is correct, but it is the primary reason in 99% of all applications.
Okay


The comparison is fiber optic cable versus wire.

Okay. What about optic disk vs. magnetic disk? Optical disks tend to
hold more information per area than magnetic disks. Well, usually.
There are no "photonic" circuits outside of Star Trek.

There are some lab attempts to make things like "photonic" logic and
"photonic" dipoles with rectifiers for light to DC conversion, but
nothing anyone would call a "photonic circuit".

Thats because photonics requires electricity for power.
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi:

One advantage of photonics over electronics is more bandwidth but that
is only one of several advantages. Others are greater clarity, less
overheating, more resistance to EMI/ RFI, greater S/N ratio.

So its not just bandwidth.

People in the groups I post to keep telling me that the only advantage
of photonics over electronics is bandwidth. That is so wrong.

I would help [us and you] if you told us [and knew] what you were babling about.
 
Bandwidth deals solely with frequency. Clarity deals both with
frequency and amplitude.

No, so called clarity deals with bandwidth and linearity. Photonics
are extremely non-linear.
Wires vs. optics fibers. Semiconductors vs. crystals.

Wires don't overheat under normal operation unless the designer
is a moron and knows nothing about circuit design, i.e. someone
like you.

Fiber optics don't, and can't, carry any significant power.

What crystals?
Thats another advantage photonics has over electronics. Photonics are
less vulnerable to EMI/RFI than electronics.

The cable is, the rest isn't.
Photonic components vs. electronic components.

Apples and oranges; you haven't a clue.
And semiconductors?

Are something else entirely. Once again you haven't a clue.
Okay. What about optic disk vs. magnetic disk? Optical disks tend to
hold more information per area than magnetic disks. Well, usually.

So what?
Thats because photonics requires electricity for power.

Utter, babbling, nonsense. You haven't a clue.
 
R

Radium

Jan 1, 1970
0
No, so called clarity deals with bandwidth and linearity. Photonics
are extremely non-linear.

Not that my comment is related but I think frequency-modulated optics
are better than amplitude-modulated optics because AM requires more
precision than FM.
Wires don't overheat under normal operation unless the designer
is a moron and knows nothing about circuit design, i.e. someone
like you.

Fiber optics don't, and can't, carry any significant power.
What crystals?

The crystals used in photonics.
The cable is, the rest isn't.



Apples and oranges; you haven't a clue.



Are something else entirely. Once again you haven't a clue.



So what?

Photonics can hold more info in the same amount of space than
electronics. In addition, electronic equipments tends to be heavier
than their photonic equivalents.
Utter, babbling, nonsense. You haven't a clue.

Huh? What -- other than electricity -- is a practical source of energy
for photonics?

Unless you want to use my too-good-to-ever-be-true deuterium-tritium
pumped lasers ;-)
 
L

Lostgallifreyan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Phineas T Puddleduck said:
Have you noticed that Fox's Crinkle Crunch biscuits break really easily
in tea? That is so wrong.

No, no, this is exactly what is so right about them :) You just need to
practise your timing.
 
L

Lostgallifreyan

Jan 1, 1970
0
There are no "photonic" circuits outside of Star Trek.

There are some lab attempts to make things like "photonic" logic and
"photonic" dipoles with rectifiers for light to DC conversion, but
nothing anyone would call a "photonic circuit".

To risk playing devil's advocate, I'll mention the one-way propagation of 532
nm light in a Coherent Verdi ring laser that someone posted about here recently.

It's not polarised in positive and negative as electricity is, exactly, but it
does use something analogous to a diode to make it go one way, and there are
neutral density filters (absorbing types) as resistors, and dichroic filters...
While all this is not the same as an electronic circuit, its parallels are too
close to be ignored. So long as any analogy isn't forcibly limiting, it's
likely to be useful, either to make better understanding, or even to make
something new.
 
B

Bob Myers

Jan 1, 1970
0
Radium said:
Not that my comment is related but I think frequency-modulated optics
are better than amplitude-modulated optics because AM requires more
precision than FM.

What, exactly, is that supposed to mean?

Bob M.
 
In sci.physics Radium said:
Not that my comment is related but I think frequency-modulated optics
are better than amplitude-modulated optics because AM requires more
precision than FM.

There are no practical optics capable of being frequency modulated.

Lasers by defininition can't be frequency modulated.

The use of AM versus FM has nothing to do with "precision".

You have no clue what modulation is.

The crystals used in photonics.

Once again, what crystals?

Photonics can hold more info in the same amount of space than
electronics. In addition, electronic equipments tends to be heavier
than their photonic equivalents.

Babbling nonsense.

Optical disk is denser than magnetic disk because the read/write
"head" can focus to a physically smaller spot.

There is no such thing as "photonic equivalents" to "electronic
equipments".

This is pure, babbling, nonsense.
Huh? What -- other than electricity -- is a practical source of energy
for photonics?

It is babbling, word salad, nonsense.

Photonic circuits don't exist.

There are no photonic opamps.

There are no photonic shift registers.

Photonic circuits don't exist.
Unless you want to use my too-good-to-ever-be-true deuterium-tritium
pumped lasers ;-)

Stick a deuterium-tritium pumped laser up your ignorant ass.
 
In sci.physics Lostgallifreyan said:
To risk playing devil's advocate, I'll mention the one-way propagation of 532
nm light in a Coherent Verdi ring laser that someone posted about here recently.
It's not polarised in positive and negative as electricity is, exactly, but it
does use something analogous to a diode to make it go one way, and there are
neutral density filters (absorbing types) as resistors, and dichroic filters...
While all this is not the same as an electronic circuit, its parallels are too
close to be ignored. So long as any analogy isn't forcibly limiting, it's
likely to be useful, either to make better understanding, or even to make
something new.

Let me know when they can be ordered from the local electronics
distributor.

Until then, the statement stands.
 
T

Timo A. Nieminen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Photonic circuits don't exist.

A bit extreme, given that photonic circuits do exist - larger and vastly
less capable than electronica can provide they might be, but they do
exist.

However, carry on spanking the deserving :)
 
L

Lostgallifreyan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Let me know when they can be ordered from the local electronics
distributor.

Until then, the statement stands.

If you'll concede that the Coherent Verdi laser is available to anyone who has
the money for it (granted, it's a HUGE cost), then you could also concede that
this 'circuit' exists. I'd be the first to agree that cost is an important
engineering parameter, but when the difference is a quantity, not a quality,
there's no grounds to say that the thing does not exist. I also suspect the
supplier of those things is more local to you than it is to me. >:)
 
R

Radium

Jan 1, 1970
0
There are no practical optics capable of being frequency modulated.

Lasers by defininition can't be frequency modulated.

The use of AM versus FM has nothing to do with "precision".

You have no clue what modulation is.

http://www.opticsinfobase.org/abstract.cfm?URI=JLT-16-4-656 quote:

"This paper proposes a scheme for the generation of optical frequency
modulation (FM) signals through direct modulation and injection locking
of semiconductor lasers. The method is simple and effective. The
amplitude modulation of the AM-FM optical carrier generated through
direct modulation can be drastically reduced by an injection-locked
semiconductor laser. For this purpose, the AM limiting property of the
injection-locked semiconductor laser has been investigated
theoretically in detail. The FM index and the second harmonic
distortion of the resulting FM signal at the output of the AM limiter
has also been calculated."

http://www.stanford.edu/~siegman/fm_laser_buildup.pdf

http://www.stanford.edu/~siegman/current_research.html quotes:

"FM laser operation" is a rather unusual type of laser operation
discovered by Steve Harris in the early 1960s in which an intracavity
phase modulator that is tuned a small amount away from the exact axial
mode spacing of the laser causes the laser to operate in a purely
frequency modulated (FM) manner, with the axial modes locked together
in a classic Bessel-function frequency modulated spectrum."

"FM laser operation is thus quite different in character from the
better known "FM mode-locked" type of operation which produces short
mode-locked output pulses, although FM laser operation can easily be
converted into FM mode locked (i.e., pulsed) operation in the same
laser simply by tuning the intracavity phase modulation frequency more
or less exactly to the axial mode spacing frequency."

"FM laser operation can be of some interest and possibly even some
practical application in situations -- such as perhaps in broadband
fiber lasers -- where one wants to create a very wide "comb" spectrum
with known and coherent phases between the individual spectral
components of the comb, while at the same time avoiding nonlinear or
other problems that may be associated with a short-pulse type of
mode-locked operation."

"Unfortunately, recent experiments seem to show that although a very
broadband type of FM laser operation can easily be achieved in a fiber
laser, the resulting oscillation spectrum can also be quite noisy. The
noise fluctuations in this case are associated with the fact that the
oscillation spectrum in an FM laser only converges quite slowly to the
desired FM-laser steady-state spectrum when the phase modulator is
first turned on, or only slowly converges back to steady-state
following any transient disturbances in the laser."

http://www.ece.drexel.edu/CMLE/papers/mmilifm/mmilifm.htm quote:

"Using the Maxwell-Bloch equations, we have studied dynamics associated
with an electro-optically tunable laser modulated by a sinusoidal
signal with a frequency near the cavity free spectral range. We find
that FM modelocking may occur when a higher order FM mode acquires the
lowest threshold. For short-cavity lasers, the pulse waveform at
modelocking is complicated, and unlike the simple Gaussian shape
suggested by previous studies. In order to explain instability observed
in laser FM operation, we develop a linear stability analysis for the
lasing FM mode. Our analysis shows that this type of instability is
attributed to mode competition and to laser relaxation dynamics. We
then confirm these analytic results by numerical simulations. "

http://digitalcommons.stevens.edu/dissertations/AAI3160412/ quote:

"This work presents a novel phase-amplitude-modulation principle of
active ranging and its application to laser ranging and
vibrodiagnostics. An exact theoretical description of the proposed
technique is given. Based on the developed theoretical model we present
a laser-phase-amplitude-modulation vibrometer and a simple system for
measurements of the length of optical fibers as practical applications
of phase-amplitude-modulation technique. Both systems have been
assembled and successfully tested. In the last chapter we present a
wide-band phase-amplitude-modulation technique and its application to
active ranging. Experimental results being obtained during experiments
promise that both developed systems might be a serious alternative to
all existing similar systems due to its low cost and simple assembly."
 
L

Lostgallifreyan

Jan 1, 1970
0
In sci.physics Radium <[email protected]> wrote:
There are no practical optics capable of being frequency modulated.

Lasers by defininition can't be frequency modulated.

Tunable dye lasers can.


I agree that many of Radiums posts are inane, but some of them ask things that
should make us think better ourselves.
 
K

Kai-Martin

Jan 1, 1970
0
How does "Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Light" exclude
modulation?

Tunable dye lasers can.

Sure.
Also, diode lasers are notorious for modulating all by them self.
Most TiSa Lasers can be modulated by mirrors sitting on piezo actuators.
Knock on the housing of a running gas laser and its output frequency jerks.
Makes me wonder if there is any type of laser that can not be modulated.

You can even keep the laser untouched and modulate the beam itself. The
gadgets to do this are called EOM and AOM. These are acronyms for "electro
optic modulator" and "acousto optic modulator".

---<(kaimartin)>---
 
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