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Am I right in thinking the 741 was.....

G

Genome

Jan 1, 1970
0
1) Some sort of weirdo **** up invented to demonstrate the designers ability
to be clever.

2) Some sort of weirdo **** up invented by the designer after management
stuck the oar in because the original design was just too simple and they
wanted everyone else to have a hard time ripping it off.

3) It makes obvious sense given the constraints of processing at the time it
was designed.

4) It's just obvious!

5) The designer was the only person who could come up with this shit at the
time but drank beer down the pub with his mate(s) and they hatched a plan
for the gradual release of shit to different companies.... at a price.

DNA
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
1) Some sort of weirdo **** up invented to demonstrate the designers ability
to be clever.

2) Some sort of weirdo **** up invented by the designer after management
stuck the oar in because the original design was just too simple and they
wanted everyone else to have a hard time ripping it off.

3) It makes obvious sense given the constraints of processing at the time it
was designed.

4) It's just obvious!

5) The designer was the only person who could come up with this shit at the
time but drank beer down the pub with his mate(s) and they hatched a plan
for the gradual release of shit to different companies.... at a price.

DNA

You alright there, DNA?

(1) The 741 wasn't too shabby an OpAmp (for its time).

(2) The published schematic is NOT the real schematic... ask (IIRC)
Raytheon... they copied the schematic with disastrous results ;-)

...Jim Thompson
 
G

Genome

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim Thompson said:
You alright there, DNA?

(1) The 741 wasn't too shabby an OpAmp (for its time).

(2) The published schematic is NOT the real schematic... ask (IIRC)
Raytheon... they copied the schematic with disastrous results ;-)

...Jim Thompson

That narrows things down.....

So, is

http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM741.pdf

slightly right in the right sort of way?

Did Bill and Ben have their heads together when Mike gave Raytheon the
original design but they upset Mike and Mike met Bill who spoke to Bob and
then Ethel came up with the master plan whereby Bob, Bill, Martin, Mike and
other Bill edited the masks to come up with something entirely different....
but made up another diagram and then spoke to Dave and other Mike about an
offer for second sourcing on a particular understanding that certain things
would not happen as long as certain other things did....?

Sure fine, I just felt stupid enough to try and figure out why and then
thought I'd check for hidden (conspiracy theories) reasons unrelated to my
limited comprehension of 'this bit goes up, so this bit goes down'.

DNA
 
P

Paul Hovnanian P.E.

Jan 1, 1970
0
Genome said:
1) Some sort of weirdo **** up invented to demonstrate the designers ability
to be clever.

How DARE you insult Mr.Rube Goldberg with such a demeaning language!

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:p[email protected]
------------------------------------------------------------------
A limerick packs laughs anatomical
Into space that is quite economical.
But the good ones I've seen
So seldom are clean,
And the clean ones so seldom are comical.
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
That narrows things down.....

So, is

http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM741.pdf

slightly right in the right sort of way?

IIRC that looks correct. I used a lot of those in thick-film hybrid
LDO regulators for the Hughes TOW Missile in 1970-73. I needed that
exact configuration to make it work. Other _so-called_ 741's wouldn't
work.
Did Bill and Ben have their heads together when Mike gave Raytheon the
original design but they upset Mike and Mike met Bill who spoke to Bob and
then Ethel came up with the master plan whereby Bob, Bill, Martin, Mike and
other Bill edited the masks to come up with something entirely different....
but made up another diagram and then spoke to Dave and other Mike about an
offer for second sourcing on a particular understanding that certain things
would not happen as long as certain other things did....?

Sure fine, I just felt stupid enough to try and figure out why and then
thought I'd check for hidden (conspiracy theories) reasons unrelated to my
limited comprehension of 'this bit goes up, so this bit goes down'.

DNA

That's a common-mode feedback loop in the middle (if that Q8-Q9-Q3-Q4
circuitry is throwing off your comprehension). Q10-Q11 is your
classic Widlar logarithmic current mirror.

Do I need to write another OpAmp tutorial?

...Jim Thompson
 
G

Genome

Jan 1, 1970
0
Paul Hovnanian P.E. said:
How DARE you insult Mr.Rube Goldberg with such a demeaning language!

Wouldn't dream of it and I'm sure he would deny it anyway.

DNA
 
G

Genome

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim Thompson said:
IIRC that looks correct. I used a lot of those in thick-film hybrid
LDO regulators for the Hughes TOW Missile in 1970-73. I needed that
exact configuration to make it work. Other _so-called_ 741's wouldn't
work.


That's a common-mode feedback loop in the middle (if that Q8-Q9-Q3-Q4
circuitry is throwing off your comprehension). Q10-Q11 is your
classic Widlar logarithmic current mirror.

Do I need to write another OpAmp tutorial?

...Jim Thompson

No!!! And I don't need none of your silly hints either.

For the moment it might be enough to say it is meant to be..... I'll be off
to bed now but I shall move things up and down tomorrow.

DNA
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
No!!! And I don't need none of your silly hints either.

For the moment it might be enough to say it is meant to be..... I'll be off
to bed now but I shall move things up and down tomorrow.

DNA

<SMIRK>

...Jim Thompson
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Paul Hovnanian P.E. said:
How DARE you insult Mr.Rube Goldberg with such a demeaning language!


Or his design review by Mr Murphy.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
1) Some sort of weirdo **** up invented to demonstrate the designers ability
to be clever.

2) Some sort of weirdo **** up invented by the designer after management
stuck the oar in because the original design was just too simple and they
wanted everyone else to have a hard time ripping it off.

3) It makes obvious sense given the constraints of processing at the time it
was designed.

4) It's just obvious!

5) The designer was the only person who could come up with this shit at the
time but drank beer down the pub with his mate(s) and they hatched a plan
for the gradual release of shit to different companies.... at a price.

DNA

I remember, in days of yore, making the decision to use 741's in a big
shipboard control system program. They were more expensive than
uA709's and such, burger+fries+milkshake maybe, but had three big
advantages: no front-end zenering/latchup modes, no external
compensation, and a decent current limit. That sort of stuff was
impressive in those days. They were fine for most analog/controls
stuff, had few quirks and pretty good DC specs. The PNP front-end had
chronic popcorn noise, so they sucked for really low-level stuff.

What's a good gp opamp now? I like the LM7301, SOT-23, r-r i/o, OK DC
specs, 4 MHz, 5v to +-15v supplies.

John
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello John,
I remember, in days of yore, making the decision to use 741's in a big
shipboard control system program. They were more expensive than
uA709's and such, burger+fries+milkshake maybe, but had three big
advantages: no front-end zenering/latchup modes, no external
compensation, and a decent current limit. That sort of stuff was
impressive in those days. They were fine for most analog/controls
stuff, had few quirks and pretty good DC specs. The PNP front-end had
chronic popcorn noise, so they sucked for really low-level stuff.

I liked the uA709 better. Compared to the 741 it felt like a hotrod but
that also meant you could wreck out easier. Of course, the hottest of
all amps from those days is the uA733 which was also remarkably cheap
almost right from the start. I made a lot of RF gear with those. There
were times when a 733 sold for about the same price as a 741 in the
local stores (in Germany) but you got a Kawasaki instead of a moped.

What's a good gp opamp now? I like the LM7301, SOT-23, r-r i/o, OK DC
specs, 4 MHz, 5v to +-15v supplies.

Nice, but expensive.
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
I liked the uA709 better. Compared to the 741 it felt like a hotrod but
that also meant you could wreck out easier. Of course, the hottest of
all amps from those days is the uA733 which was also remarkably cheap
almost right from the start. I made a lot of RF gear with those. There
were times when a 733 sold for about the same price as a 741 in the
local stores (in Germany) but you got a Kawasaki instead of a moped.


Wasn't the µA733 an early video amplifier?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
S

SioL

Jan 1, 1970
0
John Larkin said:
What's a good gp opamp now? I like the LM7301, SOT-23, r-r i/o, OK DC
specs, 4 MHz, 5v to +-15v supplies.

John

What's a modern-day replacement for NE5532?

SioL
 
G

Genome

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim Thompson said:
<SMIRK>

...Jim Thompson

So, it was item 3.

I'll make no claims but, after a bit of head beating, I see something. Shit,
now you've told me, I can't even claim to have almost got nowhere....
Bastard. Now all the Girlies down the pub want to meet the real Jim
Thompson.

DNA
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
So, it was item 3.

I'll make no claims but, after a bit of head beating, I see something. Shit,
now you've told me, I can't even claim to have almost got nowhere....
Bastard. Now all the Girlies down the pub want to meet the real Jim
Thompson.

DNA

Sure they do. One of the worst put-downs I ever endured was from a
_very_well_put_together_ female employee who told me I was "a father
image" to her :-(

...Jim Thompson
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sure they do. One of the worst put-downs I ever endured was from a
_very_well_put_together_ female employee who told me I was "a father
image" to her :-(

...Jim Thompson

Stings, don't it? I can still remember the first time a gal on the
street called me "sir". 8-(


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Stings, don't it? I can still remember the first time a gal on the
street called me "sir". 8-(


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Youngster. I've been called "sir" for at least 25 years ;-)

And "N" has finally succumbed to using the "senior" discounts.

I've been using them for years. To me a discount is a discount... I
don't care what you call it.

The airline senior discount can be quite substantial... I don't tell
them I'm a working senior... the laptop is "just for watching movies"
;-)

...Jim Thompson
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sure they do. One of the worst put-downs I ever endured was from a
_very_well_put_together_ female employee who told me I was "a father
image" to her :-(

...Jim Thompson

Gosh Jim, are there chip-designer groupies?

John
 
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