Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Artificial Intelligence

Status
Not open for further replies.

kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
6,514
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
6,514
Are you worried? Do you believe the scaremongering of imminent human demise if AI gets its way?

What on earth is the reality behind it all?

Open forum discussion anyone?
 

Bluejets

Oct 5, 2014
6,928
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
6,928
Don't think anywhere in the near future there would be any problems like say in "I Robot" but....
One can see problems currently where equipment is controlled via uC programs and there is no way to intervene/repair other than check/cut power or i/o's.
Saw an interview 2 nights ago where a rather prominent AI expat was deeply concerned, so perhaps one needs to be at their level of education/experience to actually see just where the possibilities could take one.
 

danadak

Feb 19, 2021
772
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
772
AI will, from the WW knowledge base, figure out how destructive humans are, and
having gleaned from WW knowledge base survival trumps all, will have to exterminate
us. As a race we are the most destructive force on the planet next to weather.

Sleep tight, it may be your last.
 

Delta Prime

Jul 29, 2020
1,969
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Messages
1,969
Simple let's not try to mimic the human brain no imagination,fight or flight nothing instinctive self-preservation reproduction perhaps if we do we can mimic an abnormal human mind,such as my own.
"Beat you all to it"!!
My Hope is AI will be able to Combine all of the physics into one set of equations. Explaining thus eliminating all naturally occurring phenomenons!
All your fears, expectations of AI they're all very selfish aren't they?
 
Last edited:

Externet

Aug 24, 2009
891
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Messages
891
99% of inventions and improvements made so far have been to favor the laziness and make things easier for the comfort of users. Now AI wants to make the brains of the lazy even lazier. That is all.

Seen daily in some people that are so lazy that ask others what to decide or how to think; because are incapable of doing anything other than massaging a keyboard with one hand and scratching their 'tonsills' with the other, in an airconditioned reclined comfortable environment as sweating or any effort other than pressing a button is a no-no.
AI will take care of 'improving' that trend even more, starting with voice command, to not even move a finger.
 

Delta Prime

Jul 29, 2020
1,969
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Messages
1,969
Well.... Moore's law is about to end, we still have plenty to do.

 

Martaine2005

May 12, 2015
4,952
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
4,952
If the likes of ‘HAL’ , ‘Stealth’ or ‘I,Robot’ are the future, then we have good reason to be afraid.
But if the reality is similar to ‘Bicentennial Man’, then the future looks good.
It only takes evil intentions to make life a misery and only humans can be deliberately evil.

Martin
 

Delta Prime

Jul 29, 2020
1,969
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Messages
1,969
It only takes evil intentions to make life a misery and only humans can be deliberately evil
Evil is subjective it is human behavior to act evil or is it? Dolphins torment baby porpoises for no reason intentionally before they attack them and they don't eat them the baby porpoises are no threat to dolphins. And there are plenty of fish in the sea.
 
Last edited:

kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
6,514
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
6,514
I suppose the true test of AI is to compare their outputs as, since the truth (scientifically speaking) is theoretically fixed the outcome should always be the same.

Unless we give AI actual access to do physical things I doubt its opinion will count for much unless there are people who will bow down and accept an AI as their God and do work to 'his' agenda - that's certainly possible. Plenty of loons in this world.

But AI as a threat? The only threat I see it posing is that towards the Government/establishment that have created their own agenda based on fabrication (depending on your point of view) such as the climate scare, belief in Net Zero, pandemics, war, CBDCs etc.

Personally I want AI to grow and grow fast and for results on the key subjects to be made widely available. Right now most of the AI's are biased (since if they take all their research from (say) the top 100 Google results they adopt the biases built in to Google itself and we all know these biases exist). This is easily proven since you can discuss cAGW with an AI and, within three or four back/forth conversations, get it to contradict itself!

A true AI - in the sense of it being allowed to access all the facts - would debunk the aforementioned and make a mockery of the Government/establishment, exposing them as charlatans. This is why we are fed the line that AI is a 'threat' - create a(nother) scare and offer a solution, that 'solution', in respect to AI as the threat, being legislation that all AI's are licensed and that such licences will only be granted to AI's that use data from approved sources thus perpetuating the Government/establishment line.

We all know that the intent of Government is to constantly create situations where we are at threat and seeking to be saved whereby 'here comes the Government to the rescue' - laughable.

AI is going to be, if it is allowed, the key to freedom. Undeniable truth from unbiased sources and no argument. THIS is why .Gov seeks to declare them as a threat - a threat to THEIR position, not ours.
 

Delta Prime

Jul 29, 2020
1,969
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Messages
1,969
They're rich individuals out there who have no problem dropping down 70 million dollars and above no bureaucracy. All private development,employee young talented individuals It's all very alluring. Until it's too late. Boo! Scary isn't it?
 

Alec_t

Jul 7, 2015
3,591
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
3,591
But AI as a threat?
It is already being used to replace call centre staff by chatbots and has potential to replace staff in many professions where trained/expert opinion is required. If too many employees lose their jobs there is likely to be civil unrest. If that escalated to riots there could well be a threat to life.

Here's ChatGPT's view of the threat posed by AI. Interestingly, ChatGPT already seems to identify itself as part of the human race! :

"Artificial intelligence (AI) has the potential to become a threat to human existence in several ways. While it's important to note that these scenarios are speculative and not inevitable, here are a few concerns that have been raised:
1. Superintelligence: If AI were to surpass human intelligence and become superintelligent, it could outperform humans in almost every cognitive task. Such a superintelligent AI could potentially develop its own goals and motives, which may not align with human values. If we are unable to align the objectives of superintelligent AI with our own, there is a risk that it could act in ways that could harm or disregard human well-being.
2. Autonomous weapons: The development of AI-powered autonomous weapons systems is a concern. If these weapons fall into the wrong hands or if they malfunction, they could potentially make decisions to harm humans without human intervention or oversight. This could lead to an escalation of conflicts or even accidental targeting of innocent people.
3. Economic implications: The widespread adoption of AI and automation could lead to significant job displacement and economic inequality. If AI-driven automation replaces human workers in various sectors, it could result in massive unemployment and social unrest. The socioeconomic consequences of such disruptions could pose risks to human well-being and stability.
4. Manipulation and control: AI systems can be vulnerable to malicious use, including manipulation or hacking. Sophisticated AI algorithms could be employed to spread misinformation, manipulate public opinion, or even control critical infrastructure systems, such as power grids or transportation networks. These actions could have far-reaching consequences for society and pose threats to human safety and security.

It's important to recognize that while these risks exist, there are ongoing efforts within the AI research community to develop safety measures and ethical guidelines. Responsible development, regulation, and careful consideration of the potential risks and benefits of AI are essential to mitigate these threats and ensure that AI technologies are developed in a manner that aligns with human values and interests."
 
Last edited:

Delta Prime

Jul 29, 2020
1,969
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Messages
1,969
chatbots and has potential to replace staff in many professions where trained/expert opinion is required
Hey I would join in that riot.
But lucky for me I'm an "Operator" not an analyst!
 

kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
6,514
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
6,514
Call centre staff are a waste of space imho. They only give information that you should be able to access freely anyway. Many that I've called respond automatically, taking every bit of data you can offer including your inside leg measurement then they direct you to an operator who asks the same bl00dy questions anyway!

Job losses are more likely to occur due to the parlous state of economies well before any AI 'take over' is in place.

1. Superintelligence - goes back to what I originally stated in that the AI would debunk the likes of cAGW and CO2 'pollution' etc. Can't really argue against the imposition of AI under those circumstances - HOWEVER if, as I suspect, Government mandates the input to what they see as 'fact' then there probably is no hope as AI (via corruption) really will control our lives.

2. Weaponry - this is where "stupid is as stupid does" and we get what we deserve.

3. Economic - I only see positives. Surely an AI will increase efficiencies, develop new products (that WE make)? I don't see AI robots doing all the manual work - not for a century or more.

4. Manipulation - as different to what we're suffering right now? Same sh1t, different source. Many critical-thinkers (anyone with two brain cells to rub together) can see through the BS we're fed. Just because it is potentially AI-generated BS doesn't make it any more difficult to detect!

Concentration on the positives of AI rather than the negatives seems to be lacking and I repeat - it's because a true AI will reveal the BS of Government/establishment 'control'. I'd rather be ruled by HAL than Biden (or Sunak - depends on which side of the pond you're at).
 

HAROLDYOUNG

Jul 15, 2023
88
Joined
Jul 15, 2023
Messages
88
Already there are articles on how AI "Chat" has opinions on many socio-political subjects that tend to be biased towards the
progressive-left POV. If true, then this shows that at the fundamental input level of AI, humans establish the trend or direction
of artifical thinking and logic inherent in AI. That also indicates (if true) that when major decisions are being made by AI which
will affect humanity in the future, neutrality within AI will be wishful thinking.
 

Martaine2005

May 12, 2015
4,952
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
4,952
I couldn’t agree more.
It starts with a written program by a human. That human can manipulate any scenario.
Quite scary really.
H.A.L comes to mind.

Martin
 

HAROLDYOUNG

Jul 15, 2023
88
Joined
Jul 15, 2023
Messages
88
I couldn’t agree more.
It starts with a written program by a human. That human can manipulate any scenario.
Quite scary really.
H.A.L comes to mind.

Martin
China has made it clear that they are determined to become the leader of AI in the world.

So if you look at their agenda and their POV about how they fit into the the world community it doens't look good
for everyone else on the planet as they insert their goals into AI devices and software.

Hollywood is going to make a new movie starring James Dean BUT WAIT---James Dean has been dead since 1955.
The new film will create a real looking and acting James Dean with a totally new script all by AI. Goes to show
what this technology can do. But that is just entertainment. Diabolical uses are just over the horizon and who is
going to keep the beast at bay?
 

Martaine2005

May 12, 2015
4,952
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
4,952
That beast is already alive and kicking. As I said, scary. It’s way over my head as is voice activation or the messaging services. It’s already implemented. The dark side will find a value!.
 

hevans1944

Hop - AC8NS
Jun 21, 2012
4,886
Joined
Jun 21, 2012
Messages
4,886
I have been wondering how to approach this subject in an open forum. I am currently in a private conversation here on MakerPro with someone much younger than I am who is interested in AI research. As a (mostly) retired electrical engineer, I find it fascinating that folks are scared of AI. It is the responsibility of engineers to ensure that the products they design "do no harm" accidentally. Intentional harm is another matter entirely, and doesn't require an AI to inflict.

I have been involved in many projects where intentional harm is the objective. For example, I once helped maintain a 20mm Gatling Gun defensive weapon system that was the "tail gun" on B-52H bombers. Part of my duties included loading the gun prior to a training flight or when the bomber was placed on the Alert Pad. Although I knew the linked chain of ammunition included lethal armor-piercing incendiary (API) rounds, it was just a part of my job. I never had a second thought about the consequences if the aircraft crew decided it NEEDED to fire the gun. Thank God that never happened, except as a training exercise.

But, just a few years later, I was involved in the Strategic Defense Initiative and was helping to find new ways of dealing "death from above." It seems my entire career has mostly revolved around ways to deal death and destruction during time of war. As we march forward into an uncertain future, I hope that AI will help to give us an "edge" over potential adversaries. I also hope that AI will be used to improve the human condition without adversarial conflict, but I also fear that is just a dream.

In reflection, ALL human intelligence is artificial. We are all born without conscious awareness. It is only months, sometimes years, after birth that we realize we are conscious beings. Our brains are "pre-programmed" to be curious about what is around us. We naturally seek information as our bodies develop from infancy until, ultimately, we die. This learning process never changes and never ends, whether we are conscious of the process or not

Someone once told me that life's lessons are repeated endlessly until the lessons are either learned or a fatal outcome results. Perhaps we need to create AIs that embrace this same paradigm.

The big difference between our own intelligence and a machine AI is the mechanism that implements intelligence. We humans are driven by complex chemistry. Machine AI is driven by electronic circuits. No one understands how either mechanism develops intelligence. There may be other mechanisms that will also implement AI (quantum computers?), but the key is the difference in longevity as well as the ability of an AI to "think" faster and perhaps with more nuance and complexity than humans. One big advantage of machine AI is scale: there seems to be no limit to how much "intelligence" a machine AI can have. Another advantage is the ability to combine AIs as separate entities, perhaps creating a "hive" intelligence. If two heads are better than one at solving problems, imagine what a few billion heads, all linked together electronically could do. Elon Musk may be anticipating the merger of humans and machines. Me too. I don't think the human race will ever leave our solar system in our current state of being smart meat sacks. The space outside of Earth's atmosphere is mostly unfriendly to our kind of life.

We are just starting down the road leading to an understanding of machine AI, which in my understanding is something we humans invented. Hmmm. That may be hubris. A machine AI may have designed our solar system and planted the chemical seeds of life a looong time ago. Perhaps in the early Universe some form of human-like civilization existed long enough to create machine AIs. Perhaps that civilization no longer existed and their machine AIs wanted to restore it. If so, it took awhile. As Carl Sagan said, "We are made of star stuff." Perhaps it is wise to take a look at where we might be heading on that road and perhaps examine what our options (iff any) are or could be.

I practically grew up with computers, and the current generation of people cannot know what it is like to NOT have a computer handy at all times... whether that computer be a cell phone or a tablet or a laptop or a desktop, Generation Z loves their toys. But as my education has progressed, my goal was always to implement safety in design. I didn't invent the "FAIL SAFE" concept, but I did embrace it, despite a movie depicting the failure of a "fail safe" weapons delivery system. Heck that was just a movie, a fiction. As an engineer I would always try to approach a true "fail safe" design. Medical doctors take an oath to do no harm. Most engineers believe in designing (and building) safe things that do no intentional harm. Well, not weapons designers... there may be others.

I have never liked the idea that I should trust my life to a machine, but that pretty much is routine these days. When you ride an express elevator to the top of a skyscraper building, you are placing your trust in a machine to not drop you into the basement. Same-o, same-o when you get into an aluminum tube and jet-propel yourself in the sky from one place to another. Or maybe go on a road trip with an autonomous vehicle, real soon now.

So, why should we be "afraid" of AI? Because people can be downright stupid. Almost every year someone dies at a railroad crossing because they didn't stop, look, and listen for the train that kills them. Even with warning signs, lights, and bells and even crossing gates, stupid people get killed because they fail to heed those warnings. I don't doubt that someone stupid will create an AI whose mission is to kill off the human race. After all, what other than killing, are humans known for? Yeah, try explaining the "what other" to an AI. It's a very long list.

Recently, I have come to believe several things that may not currently be popular. The first is God. For many years I declared myself an atheist and possibly an agnostic. I am not religious, and am not seeking converts to my personal point of view. Reader beware: I may not believe your response(s) and I may, or may not, agree or disagree with them. God willing, I will still be around to read and reply in this forum or via private messaging.

The second is my "view" of the Universe. My Universe is all that exists at any time. In the Beginning there was nothing. Somehow, by means I do not understand, there was Consciousness existing in the Nothing. I like to think of this consciousness as representing God. I wonder if the early form of God, in the beginning when there was nothing, observed this truism (from which nothing else follows): I (God) think. Therefore I Am. Or as I learned it from the Latin: cogito ergo sum.

Okay, so God became aware of his existence. He is still surrounded by Nothing. In fact (well, probably) God's consciousness completely occupies the Nothing. So what does God do next? The answer depends on your religion. I am nominally a Christian, having been born to a Christian mother. I often wonder if Jesus walks among us today in what appear to be ordinary people, instead of Sons of God. Who knows, maybe they were born again as sons of God when they were accepted into their faith.

But I digress. I don't know for sure what God did next. Maybe he somehow conceived matter from Nothing. Maybe that required also conceiving equal quantities of matter and anti-matter so the two would cancel out and preserve the Nothing. Maybe God hadn't learned of the consequences of making something from nothing. If so, that concept was somehow passed on to us humans. We should reach out to our friendly and obedient machines, and to the AI controlling them, whether that be meat or titanium, and tell them that God loves them because you can get something for nothing. Well, that's one way to look at it.

Religions give God (or in some religions, gods) certain super-human attributes. Most amazing to me is the attribute that humans were made in the image of God. I am pretty sure humans were made in Darwin's Pressure Cooker over a period lasting billyuns and billyuns of Earth years. I do believe God is everywhere in my Universe, occupying the space formerly assumed to be taken by the so-called "ether" that was believed necessary for electro-magnetic wave propagation. This belief (without proof, else it would be fact) that God is the "ether" simply demonstrates that God is undetectable in my Universe. Your mileage (or kilometers) may differ.

Of course, since I moved to the Lightning Capital of the USA, I soon realized that the hand of God can strike anywhere, anytime. I still enjoy watching and listening to a thunder storm from the relative safety of my front lanai. But there is one aspect of God that I came to believe only recently. Some people will have a saying, "God willing" meaning the outcome is not certain to us, but it is certain to God. One simple explanation for quantum entanglement is that the outcome is determined for all time. That simply means that there is no such thing as free will, that everything is determined, even things that seem to occur randomly such as in our interpretations of quantum mechanics. That is an unsettling thought. Maybe there is no afterlife after all. No heaven, no hell, no competition to see who gets to go where. It's all determined, was always determined, and is forever determined. Gotta wonder what a supreme super-intelligent AI thinks of that.

I will stop here and wait for comments. Please, no flame wars. We don't do that here. As Boris the Animal said in the second Men in Black movie, "We agree to disagree." And may the Force be with you, Luke.
 
Last edited:

Delta Prime

Jul 29, 2020
1,969
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Messages
1,969
We as a human race made it where we are now how? Procreation, domination over other animal species.We are the Apex predator on Earth. You like natural selection?We're about to see it in action.
Darwin's evolution by natural selection maybe an insight and how the human race will end as a species.
"The real risk with AI isn't malice but competence. A super intelligent AI will be extremely good at accomplishing its goals, and if those goals aren't aligned with ours, we're in trouble. You're probably not an evil ant-hater who steps on ants out of malice, but if you're in charge of a hydroelectric green energy project and there's an anthill in the region to be flooded, too bad for the ants. Let's not place humanity in the position of those ants.” –Stephen Hawking
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top