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battery charger circuit overload

L

lerameur

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello,

I have a battery charger here
http://www3.sympatico.ca/captoro/motor/fullCircuit.gif
the circuit is in two phase:
- BAttery A and B charging BAttery C and D
- BAttery C and D charging BAttery A and B

1) once the opto couplers are on, the 5amp fuse on battery A and B
just blows up. (it should be about 1.5amp)
short circuit somewhere...
2) The 100 ohm resistors in the optocoupler work in real , but in the
simulation is does not.
The circuit work if I wire one phase at a time, but when the two
phases are wired, then this is where I get the fuse burning problem

any suggestions?

(this is similar to a thread I posted earlier)


thanks

K
 
B

Bob

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello,

I have a battery charger herehttp://www3.sympatico.ca/captoro/motor/fullCircuit.gif
the circuit is in two phase:
- BAttery A and B charging BAttery C and D
- BAttery C and D charging BAttery A and B

You need to explain moe about exactly what you want this circuit to
do.

You schematic seems to have some errors, eg you seem to be missing
a resistor in series with the opto isolator near battery D and the
phototransistor side of U46 should have the collector more positive
than
then the emitter.
1) once the opto couplers are on, the 5amp fuse on battery A and B
just blows up. (it should be about 1.5amp)
short circuit somewhere...

You havn't told us what sort of batterys these are but I'm assuming
that the battery capacity is a few amp-hours or more.
From the schematic your batterys are 12volts so I'm guessing lead
acid.

If one battery is fully charged and another battery is discharged.
and the MOSFET linking them is turned fully on then tens of amps
will flow initally.

Why do you think that only 1.5amp should flow?
2) The 100 ohm resistors in the optocoupler work in real , but in the
simulation is does not.
The circuit work if I wire one phase at a time, but when the two
phases are wired, then this is where I get the fuse burning problem

Besides one of you optocouplers being the wrong way round on your
schematic
is the voltage source the same in the schematic and real life?
Is the spice model an accurate representation of your optocouplers?
If your voltage source is 12volts then 100 ohms is too low for many
types of optocouplers, the working life will be considerably
shortened.
Read the datasheet for the max recommended current.

Bob
 
L

lerameur

Jan 1, 1970
0
You need to explain moe about exactly what you want this circuit to
do.

You schematic seems to have some errors, eg you seem to be missing
a resistor in series with the opto isolator near battery D and the
phototransistor side of U46 should have the collector more positive
than
then the emitter.


You havn't told us what sort of batterys these are but I'm assuming
that the battery capacity is a few amp-hours or more.
From the schematic your batterys are 12volts so I'm guessing lead
acid.

If one battery is fully charged and another battery is discharged.
and the MOSFET linking them is turned fully on then tens of amps
will flow initally.

Why do you think that only 1.5amp should flow?


Besides one of you optocouplers being the wrong way round on your
schematic
is the voltage source the same in the schematic and real life?
Is the spice model an accurate representation of your optocouplers?
If your voltage source is 12volts then 100 ohms is too low for many
types of optocouplers, the working life will be considerably
shortened.
Read the datasheet for the max recommended current.

Bob


Hi Bob,

I posted the circuit with the current showing. I also have 5 volt
coming off to the optocoupler. I tried 11v and forgot to remove it.
The 5v is coming out from a pic, cant get more then that from a micro
controller hehe.
As you can see the current is 1.3 amp, then gets divided by the two
batteries for the charging process.
Yes they are 4 sealed lead acid batteries, 12v, 7 amp/hour
I tried swapping the U46 emitter and collector but I was not getting
anything decent, if you want I can post that result.
hope I answered all your questions

thanks
K
 
L

lerameur

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Bob,

I posted the circuit with the current showing. I also have 5 volt
coming off to the optocoupler. I tried 11v and forgot to remove it.
The 5v is coming out from a pic, cant get more then that  from a micro
controller hehe.
As you can see the current is 1.3 amp, then gets divided by the two
batteries for the charging process.
Yes they are 4 sealed lead acid batteries, 12v, 7 amp/hour
I tried swapping the U46 emitter and collector but I was not getting
anything decent, if you want I can post that  result.
hope I answered all your questions

thanks
K

Oups forget to post the link:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/captoro/motor/fullCircuit2.gif

k
 
P

Paul E. Schoen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Bob,

I posted the circuit with the current showing. I also have 5 volt
coming off to the optocoupler. I tried 11v and forgot to remove it.
The 5v is coming out from a pic, cant get more then that from a micro
controller hehe.
As you can see the current is 1.3 amp, then gets divided by the two
batteries for the charging process.
Yes they are 4 sealed lead acid batteries, 12v, 7 amp/hour
I tried swapping the U46 emitter and collector but I was not getting
anything decent, if you want I can post that result.
hope I answered all your questions

thanks
K

Oups forget to post the link:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/captoro/motor/fullCircuit2.gif

===================================================================

It is still unclear what you are trying to do, but I assume you are using
multiple batteries to drive the 5 ohm load through D2-D5. But your full
circuit shows the high current path for the batteries going through 1N4148
signal diodes, which cannot handle more than about 200 mA. It appears that
the two batteries C and D are in series and they supply charging current to
batteries A and B which are sort of in parallel. I see no current
regulation or limiting other than the 5 ohm load. So you are discharging C
and D while charging A and B, and driving a 5 ohm load with about 7 volts
which will vary as the battery voltages change.

You really need to be specific about what you want to do. You may be much
better off with SPDT relays to switch the batteries from supplying current
to being charged. Use isolation diodes on each battery so only the one with
highest voltage drives the load, until it drops enough for others to share.
But you have to disconnect the battery when charging. Otherwise the higher
charging voltage will drive the load. I'm assuming that you want to be able
to drive the load with any one or all of the batteries, and select which
ones to charge.

It is really confusing to understand why you are charging one set of
batteries from another, and I don't see any load other than the 5 ohm
resistor.

Paul
 
L

lerameur

Jan 1, 1970
0
Oups forget to post the link:http://www3.sympatico.ca/captoro/motor/fullCircuit2.gif

===================================================================

It is still unclear what you are trying to do, but I assume you are using
multiple batteries to drive the 5 ohm load through D2-D5. But your full
circuit shows the high current path for the batteries going through 1N4148
signal diodes, which cannot handle more than about 200 mA. It appears that
the two batteries C and D are in series and they supply charging current to
batteries A and B which are sort of in parallel. I see no current
regulation or limiting other than the 5 ohm load. So you are discharging C
and D while charging A and B, and driving a 5 ohm load with about 7 volts
which will vary as the battery voltages change.

You really need to be specific about what you want to do. You may be much
better off with SPDT relays to switch the batteries from supplying current
to being charged. Use isolation diodes on each battery so only the one with
highest voltage drives the load, until it drops enough for others to share.
But you have to disconnect the battery when charging. Otherwise the higher
charging voltage will drive the load. I'm assuming that you want to be able
to drive the load with any one or all of the batteries, and select which
ones to charge.

It is really confusing to understand why you are charging one set of
batteries from another, and I don't see any load other than the 5 ohm
resistor.

Paul

This is a small part of my project. Well if this part works great, if
not I will by more solar panel. Any how here is the link where I got
the circuit from:
www.skif.biz/files/dd2dfe.pdf (4 battery switch)

It may not do as it says, but the circuit should work nevertheless.

thanks
k
 
B

Bob

Jan 1, 1970
0
This is a small part of my project. Well if this part works great, if
not I will by more solar panel. Any how here is the link where I got
the circuit from:www.skif.biz/files/dd2dfe.pdf (4 battery switch)

It may not do as it says, but the circuit should work nevertheless.

thanks
k

Groan, we can stop trying to figure out your crazy schematic now.

You need to learn two things:

1) Not everything on the web is true.
2) The principle of conservation of energy.

There is lots of nonsense about free energy on the web.
You can't make a perpetual motion machine,
a car that runs on water or a machine that
will run a light bulb forever without external
energy input.

You can safely assume that anything mentioning
Nikola Tesla and free energy is a stupid hoax that
won't work.

This scheme will not work.

If you don't believe this you need to try out
the circuit shown on the bottom of the first page
of that pdf. The one with two batterys and
a light bulb in a loop.

Perferably try this with a couple of AA batterys
and a torch bulb. I'm not sure you can be
trusted to not hurt yourself messing with
lead acid batterys.

The pdf claims that one battery will charge the
other. It will not.

If you have the positive of one battery to
the negative of the other then the sum of
the voltages is 24 volts. You get 24 volts
across the bulb. A 24volt bulb will
discharge both the batterys.

If you have the batterys wired with opposite
polarity eg batteryA+ to batteryB+, batteryB-
to lamp, lamp to BatteryA-
then the sum of the battery voltages is
zero!
The lamp does not light, one battery
does not charge the other.

If one 12volt battery is slightly different voltage
to the other you might get 0.5V across
the lamp and a faint glow.

Once you have realised that the first page
of the pdf is complete crap it should
be obvious that all the rest is too.

It sounds like you have put a lot of time
into this and spent a bit of money on parts.
I suggest that before attempting any more
design projects you read a really basic
book on electronics, play with some
AA batterys, bulbs and a voltmeter and
figure out how volts add up round
a circuit.

Bob
 
L

lerameur

Jan 1, 1970
0
Groan, we can stop trying to figure out your crazy schematic now.

You need to learn two things:

1) Not everything on the web is true.
2) The principle of conservation of energy.

There is lots of nonsense about free energy on the web.
You can't make a perpetual motion machine,
a car that runs on water or a machine that
will run a light bulb forever without external
energy input.

You can safely assume that anything mentioning
Nikola Tesla and free energy is a stupid hoax that
won't work.

This scheme will not work.

If you don't believe this you need to try out
the circuit shown on the bottom of the first page
of that pdf. The one with two batterys and
a light bulb in a loop.

Perferably try this with a couple of AA batterys
and a torch bulb. I'm not sure you can be
trusted to not hurt yourself messing with
lead acid batterys.

The pdf claims that one battery will charge the
other. It will not.

If you have the positive of one battery to
the negative of the other then the sum of
the voltages is 24 volts. You get 24 volts
across the bulb. A 24volt bulb will
discharge both the batterys.

If you have the batterys wired with opposite
polarity eg batteryA+ to batteryB+, batteryB-
to lamp, lamp to BatteryA-
then the sum of the battery voltages is
zero!
The lamp does not light, one battery
does not charge the other.

If one 12volt battery is slightly different voltage
to the other you might get 0.5V across
the lamp and a faint glow.

Once you have realised that the first page
of the pdf is complete crap it should
be obvious that all the rest is too.

It sounds like you have put a lot of time
into this and spent a bit of money on parts.
I suggest that before attempting any more
design projects you read a really basic
book on electronics, play with some
AA batterys, bulbs and a voltmeter and
figure out how volts add up round
a circuit.

Bob

Hi bob,
well I am not going for perpetual motion here, I just want to make the
circuit as in the simulation. even if in my circuit the series
batteries are not fully charge, lets say in the worst case 11v, that
would be 22v, enough to charge the other 12v battery. I have the thing
working with relays, but relays are bulky noisy and slow.
I understand you, the energy I use to switch the relays, the heat loss
in the load and in the wires I am not gaining any energy.

I want to make my circuit work, it will not do what they say, but it
should do what it should do, meaning switching batteries from series
to parallel, and that I believe it is possible.
..
thanks
k
 
P

Paul E. Schoen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bob said:
Groan, we can stop trying to figure out your crazy schematic now.

You need to learn two things:

1) Not everything on the web is true.
2) The principle of conservation of energy.

There is lots of nonsense about free energy on the web.
You can't make a perpetual motion machine,
a car that runs on water or a machine that
will run a light bulb forever without external
energy input.

You can safely assume that anything mentioning
Nikola Tesla and free energy is a stupid hoax that
won't work.

This scheme will not work.

If you don't believe this you need to try out
the circuit shown on the bottom of the first page
of that pdf. The one with two batterys and
a light bulb in a loop.

Perferably try this with a couple of AA batterys
and a torch bulb. I'm not sure you can be
trusted to not hurt yourself messing with
lead acid batterys.

The pdf claims that one battery will charge the
other. It will not.

If you have the positive of one battery to
the negative of the other then the sum of
the voltages is 24 volts. You get 24 volts
across the bulb. A 24volt bulb will
discharge both the batterys.

If you have the batterys wired with opposite
polarity eg batteryA+ to batteryB+, batteryB-
to lamp, lamp to BatteryA-
then the sum of the battery voltages is
zero!
The lamp does not light, one battery
does not charge the other.

If one 12volt battery is slightly different voltage
to the other you might get 0.5V across
the lamp and a faint glow.

Once you have realised that the first page
of the pdf is complete crap it should
be obvious that all the rest is too.

It sounds like you have put a lot of time
into this and spent a bit of money on parts.
I suggest that before attempting any more
design projects you read a really basic
book on electronics, play with some
AA batterys, bulbs and a voltmeter and
figure out how volts add up round
a circuit.

There are too many errors and ASSumptions in the circuit descriptions and
components even to begin criticism and correction. Some big crazies are:

1. It says the 12 V batteries can be charged to 36 VDC. I think not...

2. It says a fully discharged battery can be recharged in under one minute
without any heating. Let's see. 7 amp-hour battery charged in 1 minute
needs 60x7 amps = 420 amps. Boom!

3. The author of the document states that the transformers used in the John
Bedini circuit have an 8 ohm primary and 1000 ohm secondary, and then
states that the voltage ratio is 125, when it is closer to 11. This is a
common error among those who are clueless about electronics, and places
suspicion on any other "facts" he may state.

4. The ASSumption is that the "environment" supplies unlimited free "zero
point" energy field (space-time continuum). The only way you can get "free"
energy from the environment is if you are located in the path of a
microwave beam. Of course, that would fry your brain, which may be what
happened to these kooks.

5. Part of the explanation involves electrons moving quickly on the surface
of wires and then reaching a "bottleneck" when they attempt to enter the
battery where the current is somehow carried by heavier lead ions whose
inertia cause a build-up of voltage (and current).

6. There is obvious confusion in the author's concept of current, voltage,
energy, and power.

7. It states that Nikola Tesla used four diodes, but I don't think there
were any available during his lifetime, except perhaps crystal diodes or
vacuum tubes.

I found an interesting website that adds more information to this
concept/hoax.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:OS:Tesla_Switch_-_Geovoltaic_Energy_Pump_(GVEP)

I liked the name PESwiki, as my initials are PES.

There was also an interesting discussion on Tesla's receivers, which
introduced a negative-resistance device.
http://www.teslasociety.com/teslarec.pdf. But I don't think there is any
evidence that Tesla belived in OU or free energy. It might be possible to
transmit energy efficiently through the ionosphere, or tap into energy
produced by the same mechanisms that make lightning, but that is a far cry
from having a simple circuit tap into energy from quantum vacuum and the
space-time continuum.

For the OP, the best way to put batteries in series and parallel is
electromechanical relays. They are fast enough for any conceivable
practical purpose, and should not be noisy enough to be a problem.

Paul
 
P

Paul E. Schoen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Here is another web page by someone who constructed the same sort of
circuit that the OP has, and got a similar result, with one of the
batteries being overloaded. Also, the total state of charge after some time
of playing ring-around-the-rosary with three batteries is shown to be
diminished exactly as expected by conventional theory.
http://www.ctglabs.com/tesla1.htm

Paul
 
L

lerameur

Jan 1, 1970
0
Here is another web page by someone who constructed the same sort of
circuit that the OP has, and got a similar result, with one of the
batteries being overloaded. Also, the total state of charge after some time
of playing ring-around-the-rosary with three batteries is shown to be
diminished exactly as expected by conventional theory.http://www.ctglabs.com/tesla1.htm

Paul

Paul,
Like I said it is somewhat working with the relays.
I think it is possible to make the circuit work without having all the
super effect of free energy it is claiming for.
The circuit is divided in two state, both state works individually but
when they are combine there is a short. I think it has todo wih a bad
conception rather then over unity as claimed. I dont believe either in
it, other wise many people would have put it on the market obviously.
I think it is an interesting project. I am just trying to convert the
relay circuit into a non relay circuit using either opto coupler or
mosfets.

K
 
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