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blowing bulbs- revisited !

A

Andy C

Jan 1, 1970
0
i *might* have double posted this - apologies if so...

hi all,
please could anyone who is bored enough have a look at these 2 wiring
diagrams for me...
they are both for the same motorbike, but one is an old one and the other
one is a later (factory modified) one...
the older one is prone to blowing headlight and tail-light bulbs (even LED
ones) but the newer one is much better...
http://theloft.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/internet/3aold.jpg
http://theloft.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/internet/3alater.jpg
the main difference seems to be that in the later one the 4-wire regulator
has been replaced with a 5-wire one and a bleed resistor added which is used
only when the lights are off...presumably to help protect the regulator by
ensuring there is always a load on it...
i'm not 100% certain that this is the only reason the bulbs are blowing on
the older bikes (e.g. the older ones might have crapper batteries for
example)... but if this is the reason... why would the 5-wire regulator be
the better system ?
if you look at the extra (black) wire on the 5-wire regulator it simply
joins directly with the red wire anyway if you follow the circuit (so long
as the ignition is on).. so what is the point of the extra wire... is the
different regulator probably not the solution ?
both regulators charge the battery at peak ~14.8volts on a long run using
the system for measuring peak voltage which someone previously suggested on
this group -
many thanks !
andy
 
J

john jardine

Jan 1, 1970
0
Andy C said:
i *might* have double posted this - apologies if so...

hi all,
please could anyone who is bored enough have a look at these 2 wiring
diagrams for me...
they are both for the same motorbike, but one is an old one and the other
one is a later (factory modified) one...
the older one is prone to blowing headlight and tail-light bulbs (even LED
ones) but the newer one is much better...
http://theloft.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/internet/3aold.jpg
http://theloft.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/internet/3alater.jpg
the main difference seems to be that in the later one the 4-wire regulator
has been replaced with a 5-wire one and a bleed resistor added which is used
only when the lights are off...presumably to help protect the regulator by
ensuring there is always a load on it...
i'm not 100% certain that this is the only reason the bulbs are blowing on
the older bikes (e.g. the older ones might have crapper batteries for
example)... but if this is the reason... why would the 5-wire regulator be
the better system ?
if you look at the extra (black) wire on the 5-wire regulator it simply
joins directly with the red wire anyway if you follow the circuit (so long
as the ignition is on).. so what is the point of the extra wire... is the
different regulator probably not the solution ?
both regulators charge the battery at peak ~14.8volts on a long run using
the system for measuring peak voltage which someone previously suggested on
this group -
many thanks !
andy
The old one blew bulbs 'cos of the crappy regulator. The makers knew this so
they fitted a better regulator c/w bleed resistor.
The improvement lies with the new regulator alone and not minor wiring
changes.
The answer lies with the new regulator internals.
 
A

Andy C

Jan 1, 1970
0
john jardine said:
The old one blew bulbs 'cos of the crappy regulator. The makers knew this
so
they fitted a better regulator c/w bleed resistor.
The improvement lies with the new regulator alone and not minor wiring
changes.
The answer lies with the new regulator internals.

thanks, but why might the regulator have 5 wires? i can't see what the extra
wire is (or could be in another application) doing
cheers,
andy
 
A

Andy C

Jan 1, 1970
0
The old one blew bulbs 'cos of the crappy regulator. The makers knew this
so
they fitted a better regulator c/w bleed resistor.
The improvement lies with the new regulator alone and not minor wiring
changes.
The answer lies with the new regulator internals.

in that case... what makes a crappy regulator a crappy regulator ? both
regulators (old and new) charge at 14.8volts and never exceed this peak....
the output is 'smoothed' by a battery... so what could a regulator do to
make the bulbs blow ?
thanks!
andy
 
J

Jamie

Jan 1, 1970
0
Andy said:
in that case... what makes a crappy regulator a crappy regulator ? both
regulators (old and new) charge at 14.8volts and never exceed this peak....
the output is 'smoothed' by a battery... so what could a regulator do to
make the bulbs blow ?
thanks!
andy
it's simple.. it's what you call poor connections.
Poorly designed branch circuits can cause problems where for example,
instead of the bike making it's connection directly from the battery
post to the ignition switch system and from there to the electrical. It
may connect higher on the legs closer to where the alternator output
regulator is connected. If the leg from that point going back to the
battery for charging purposes has a loose connection. Higher voltages
will appear because the regulator responds too fast in forcing more
output between the phases.
It's very possible that the regulator has a modular system where it is
required to be plugged in to complete the circuit and if the connection
becomes bad inside! for example a bad solder joint on the board, you
can have problems like this.
 
A

Andy C

Jan 1, 1970
0
it's simple.. it's what you call poor connections.
Poorly designed branch circuits can cause problems where for example,
instead of the bike making it's connection directly from the battery post
to the ignition switch system and from there to the electrical. It may
connect higher on the legs closer to where the alternator output
regulator is connected. If the leg from that point going back to the
battery for charging purposes has a loose connection. Higher voltages will
appear because the regulator responds too fast in forcing more output
between the phases.
It's very possible that the regulator has a modular system where it is
required to be plugged in to complete the circuit and if the connection
becomes bad inside! for example a bad solder joint on the board, you
can have problems like this.

ok i understand that,
but if you look at the diagrams you'll see that this isn't the case... and
the wiring is indeed virtually identical on both model releases of the bikes
our prime suspect at the moment is that the earlier model has a far inferior
battery fitted -
my feeling is that it could well be possible to exclude the change of
regulator as being the solution from the given information ?
but i would be interested in any thoughts on this
thanks,
andy
 
E

ehsjr

Jan 1, 1970
0
Andy said:
ok i understand that,
but if you look at the diagrams you'll see that this isn't the case... and
the wiring is indeed virtually identical on both model releases of the bikes
our prime suspect at the moment is that the earlier model has a far inferior
battery fitted -
my feeling is that it could well be possible to exclude the change of
regulator as being the solution from the given information ?
but i would be interested in any thoughts on this
thanks,
andy
Since this was answered the last time you posted it,
I'll add my solution.

Install the new regulator. It *must* be broken in
after installation. To do that, put the motorbike in
reverse, and ride for a mile. This works best on
April 1.

De
 
A

Andy C

Jan 1, 1970
0
Since this was answered the last time you posted it,
I'll add my solution.

last time we didn't know that the regulator has been modified on the ones
which don't blow bulbs -
are you saying therefore this is irrelevant?
Install the new regulator. It *must* be broken in
after installation. To do that, put the motorbike in
reverse, and ride for a mile. This works best on
April 1.

De

yeah thanks, :)
 
J

James Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Andy C said:
last time we didn't know that the regulator has been modified on the ones
which don't blow bulbs -
are you saying therefore this is irrelevant?


yeah thanks, :)
My thoughts are that the new regulator works differently in that it does not
rely on the battery internal resistance to control the charge current. So
if the battery is getting old and its resistance is increasing, then you
will get a higher voltage spike till the battery catches up in a sense. :)
?
 
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