Maker Pro
Maker Pro

bridge rectifier

bennethos

Jan 6, 2013
15
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
15
Hi guys,

I'm using multisim to simulate a simple bridge rectifier.
One thing I'm not understanding is "how to measure the rectified DC voltage correctly with a multimeter".

I'm getting values way too high, I would expect it to be lower.
the XMM3 Multimeter -> way too high of what I'm expecting 24.635V . (or i'm not understanding something)

This lead me to think the multimeter it was showing Peak voltage instead of RMS.
So I calculated : RMS= pkV/sqrt2 --> 17,419V but it doesnt seem to be correct if I compare it with the XMM2 RMS voltage.

Hopefully you guys can give me some advice.

rectifier.jpg
 
Last edited:

bennethos

Jan 6, 2013
15
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
15
Some of the things I'm definately not understanding :

- How I calculate a resistive load and the correct capacitance & voltage for the filter.

- where do I ground ?

I messed around a bit with the resistor value, DC measurement of XMM3 changes drastically. So my error lies there somewhere I suspect
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
Moderator
Jan 21, 2010
25,505
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
25,505
I would be intuitively expecting 24.45V - 1.2V. However the figure you get is slightly higher than this. I suspect you'd find the reason if you looks at the V vs I graph for the diodes.
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
Moderator
Jan 21, 2010
25,505
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
25,505
When you say "drastically", what do you mean?
 

bennethos

Jan 6, 2013
15
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
15
Well as an AC power source I use 18V. After rectification I have 26.5V ?
This can't be true right. I was expecting 18V - diode drops ... Or is it normal my voltage increases by 7 volts after rectifying ?
Can't be can it ? I'm lost here
 
Last edited:

pwdixon

Oct 14, 2012
52
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
52
Well as an AC power source I use 18V. After rectification I have 26.5V ?
This can't be true right. I was expecting 18V - diode drops ... Or is it normal my voltage increases by 7 volts after rectifying ?
Can't be can it ? I'm lost here

Sounds like the 18V is rms and the 26.5V is no-load dc which is about right.
 

bennethos

Jan 6, 2013
15
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
15
I've encountered the "no load" measurement issues a couple of times. But I don't understand why it is giving these results.

Would it be possible to elaborate a bit ? Or point me to a good link ?

Last I had to calibrate the output of a negative voltage regulator to -12v . I kept measuring -24v... Until I calculated a decent power resistor to go between the Vout and the common ground and suddenly I measured -12.3V. I was happy of course, but... I don't get it entirely...
 

pwdixon

Oct 14, 2012
52
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
52
you will most probably measure rms when using ac on a dvm.

Rectified the no=load dc value would be root2 times the rms value hence 18Vrms=1.414*18dc ie 25.45Vdc.
 

bennethos

Jan 6, 2013
15
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
15
Exactly it works out !

Now I figured out the AC value @ my meter was RMS due to the fact that I had put 18V as an AC PK source and a lot less came out of it. Hence I gave it 25.45PK-PK (18V*sqrt2)

What I still don't understand is... Why does the multimeter @ AC side shows the value in RMS or effective value vs DC showing it in PK Value ?

Thx a lot for your help, it motivates me a lot when you're investing hours on reading and trying out.
 

bennethos

Jan 6, 2013
15
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
15
I found part of my answer already.

there is no effective or RMS value for DC :), there's only 1 value and the oscilloscope shows this perfectly clear right ? Namely peak value.
 

davenn

Moderator
Sep 5, 2009
14,039
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
14,039
I found part of my answer already.

there is no effective or RMS value for DC :), there's only 1 value and the oscilloscope shows this perfectly clear right ? Namely peak value.

thats correct :)

Dave
 

Harald Kapp

Moderator
Moderator
Nov 17, 2011
12,613
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Messages
12,613
I found part of my answer already.

there is no effective or RMS value for DC :), there's only 1 value and the oscilloscope shows this perfectly clear right ? Namely peak value.

RMS is the effective value of an AC waveform. The definition of "effective" being that this waveform produces the same amount of power as an equivalent DC signal.
When talking about DC it makes no sense to use RMS or "peak" values, as the voltage (ideally) is the same at all times. However, mathematically the RMS value of a DC signal is the same as the steady state value of that signal, because RMS is defined that way.

When you measure AC with a multimeter, the meter usually will give you an RMS value of the AC waveform. For a sinusoidal signal the relation is Vpeak=Vrms*sqrt(2).
Therefore after rectification of an 18Vrms by a bridge rectifier signal the voltage is 18V*sqrt(2)-2*Vdiode. The terms in this equation are:
18V*sqrt(2) = peak voltage of the sinusoidal signal
-2*Vdiode = voltage drop across two diodes of the bridge rectifier.

Note that above musings are valid for sinusoidal signals. If the waveform is other than sinusoidal, the equations change accordingly with another factor between RMS and peak.

Harald
 

bennethos

Jan 6, 2013
15
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
15
thanks so much for taking the time to explain all of you. It's clear as crystal now !
 
Top