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Bring Back the HP 15C Scientific Calculator

D

Daniel J. Stern

Jan 1, 1970
0
There are numerous products whose quality is immeasurably better than it
was "back in the good old days". The most prominent example of this is
the automotive industry--practically anything on the road today is
better built than even the best cars from the days of yore.

Yeah? My 42-year-old Slant-6 Dodge and I would like to disagree with you.
Feel free to check back in with me in 42 years and let us know how your
'04 car (you pick the make and model) is doing.

-Stern
 
J

Jonathan Barnes

Jan 1, 1970
0
Greg O said:
Don't ya just love to older cars? They are better then than now right? I
sure miss the anual tune-ups, AM radios, no AC, handling like an old truck,
engines that would not run 100,000 miles with out a valve job. Need I go on?
Greg
We are moving to a world where products are maintenance free, but are un
maintainable.

With old machines, you knock out the bushes, hammer in a new set and the
machine is good for the next 20 years....:) provided you oil it once a
week :-(.

Cars are almost to the stage where the last operation on the assembly line
is to weld up the bonnet ( American hood ? ).

I await with interest the time when some of the current cars need new IC's
for their systems and the manufacturers have run out of stocks.

If you have a small lath, a mill and a good set of hand tools there is
virtually nothing on a 1923 Austin 7 that you can't repair or replace with
something you make yourself.


--
Jonathan

Barnes's theorem; for every foolproof device
there is a fool greater than the proof.

To reply remove AT
 
D

Don Ocean

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jonathan said:
We are moving to a world where products are maintenance free, but are un
maintainable.

With old machines, you knock out the bushes, hammer in a new set and the
machine is good for the next 20 years....:) provided you oil it once a
week :-(.

Cars are almost to the stage where the last operation on the assembly line
is to weld up the bonnet ( American hood ? ).

I await with interest the time when some of the current cars need new IC's
for their systems and the manufacturers have run out of stocks.

If you have a small lath, a mill and a good set of hand tools there is
virtually nothing on a 1923 Austin 7 that you can't repair or replace with
something you make yourself.


--
Jonathan

Barnes's theorem; for every foolproof device
there is a fool greater than the proof.

To reply remove AT
 
D

Don Ocean

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jonathan said:
We are moving to a world where products are maintenance free, but are un
maintainable.

With old machines, you knock out the bushes, hammer in a new set and the
machine is good for the next 20 years....:) provided you oil it once a
week :-(.

Cars are almost to the stage where the last operation on the assembly line
is to weld up the bonnet ( American hood ? ).

I await with interest the time when some of the current cars need new IC's
for their systems and the manufacturers have run out of stocks.

If you have a small lath, a mill and a good set of hand tools there is
virtually nothing on a 1923 Austin 7 that you can't repair or replace with
something you make yourself.

Remember the model T... The bearings were replaced with leather harness
strap.. We had rain a few days ago that flooded a street.. A fellows new
Suzuki car was the only car flooded.. Destroyed all the electronics..
Shiny Suzuki went to the Junkyard. Insurance totalled it out and is now
busily trying to opt on on the grounds that the owner is at fault for
parking on public street. Should have known that it might flood
eventually. ;-p 1946 Chevy cost $680 new.. Try pricing a new chevy
based on 1946 income based on 2004 multiplier. Also dent a new bumper.
The old sping bumper didn't dent!
 
A

Anthony Garcia

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jonathan Barnes said:
[snip]
I await with interest the time when some of the current cars need new IC's
for their systems and the manufacturers have run out of stocks.

That time has already come years ago. There are cars from the '70's (a
particular Pontiac comes to mind) where a particular IC is in fact only
available from wrecking yards.
If you have a small lath, a mill and a good set of hand tools there is
virtually nothing on a 1923 Austin 7 that you can't repair or replace with
something you make yourself.

True ... unfortunately you will spend a significant portion of your time
fabricating, repairing or adjusting. instead of driving.
 
W

William H. Hathaway

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jonathan said:
We are moving to a world where products are maintenance free, but are un
maintainable.

With old machines, you knock out the bushes, hammer in a new set and the
machine is good for the next 20 years....:) provided you oil it once a
week :-(.

Cars are almost to the stage where the last operation on the assembly line
is to weld up the bonnet ( American hood ? ).

I await with interest the time when some of the current cars need new IC's
for their systems and the manufacturers have run out of stocks.

If you have a small lath, a mill and a good set of hand tools there is
virtually nothing on a 1923 Austin 7 that you can't repair or replace with
something you make yourself.

How's the lighting on this? Use glass? Filaments?

Disclaimer: I'm driving a 1981 F-150 (Ford pickup truck.)
Front tire has an annoying slow leak and the transmission is
slow to respond until it's warmed up, but it runs. IC? hah.
 
D

Daniel J. Stern

Jan 1, 1970
0
Don't ya just love to older cars? They are better then than now right?

In some ways, yes.
I sure miss the anual tune-ups,

No such annual tune-ups needed in my '62. If you think about it hard,
maybe you can figure out why.
AM radios

AM-FM-CD-Cassette in my '62.

A/C that'll freeze you right out of the car in my '62.
handling like an old truck

I can't pull 0.8g on a skidpad, but I can keep right up with most newer
analogues of my car (i.e., 4-door sedan) through whatever road you throw
at me, and the disc brakes bring things to a halt in a nice, smooth and
fast hurry.
engines that would not run 100,000 miles with out a valve job.
Need I go on?

No need, you've already demonstrated your ignorance and dismissiveness.
 
W

Walter Driedger

Jan 1, 1970
0
I will take your word for it that you have '62 Dodge. You are quite proud
of it. I would be too. They are very rare.

'Better' includes a lot more than longevity. How is the fuel consumption?
What kind of fuel do you use? How are the emissions? How many miles did
the original tires last? How long is the warrantee on your new ones?

Walter.
 
W

Walter Driedger

Jan 1, 1970
0
We are moving to a world where products are maintenance free, but are un
maintainable.

With old machines, you knock out the bushes, hammer in a new set and the
machine is good for the next 20 years....:) provided you oil it once a
week :-(.

I spent time in East Africa just as the transition from British motorcycles
to Japanese was occuring. BSAs required daily maintenance. Reading a book
on the subject made it clear that motorcycle maintence was a life style
choice. My Jap bike ran without maintenance for five years and then I got a
new one. I was looking for transportation, not a hobby. I remember seeing
a mountain of old BSA bikes behind the Peace Corp office. The new ones were
all Jap. At the same time all the Land Rovers were being replaced by Toyota
and VW.. There were a lot of Land Rovers but very few new ones. They were
owned by hobbyists. The Toyotas and VWs were okwned by profitable
businesses.
Cars are almost to the stage where the last operation on the assembly line
is to weld up the bonnet ( American hood ? ).

That would be the ideal machine. Zero maintenance. Naturally the lifetime
is fixed but so what. Nothing lasts for ever.
I await with interest the time when some of the current cars need new IC's
for their systems and the manufacturers have run out of stocks.

You have a point here. Thrid party parts will be harder to get, I suppose.
At least until they are all standardised once again. The unavailabilty of
ICs is more due to the transition technology phase cars went through. This
will stabilize.
If you have a small lath, a mill and a good set of hand tools there is
virtually nothing on a 1923 Austin 7 that you can't repair or replace with
something you make yourself.

I already have a job. I get paid a lot more than the effective hourly rate
for hand making a piston ring. I wonder how many mass produced piston rings
I could buy and pay for in the time it took you to make one.

Walter.
 
D

Daniel J. Stern

Jan 1, 1970
0
I will take your word for it that you have '62 Dodge.

No need, see for yourself:

http://www.torque.net/~u225/cars/lancer/Lancer-06-11.html
'Better' includes a lot more than longevity.

I agree.
How is the fuel consumption?

18 in town, 22 on the highway. Very livable.
What kind of fuel do you use?

Low-test unleaded.
How are the emissions?

Higher than a new car, lower than they were from this car in '62.
How many miles did the original tires last?

Not sure what that has to do with anything, but I can't tell you. They
still had plenty of tread left on them when they were removed in favor of
a set of radials at 20,550 miles. That set of radials had perhaps 5,000
miles left on them when they were swapped for the current set of
BFGoodrich Radial T/As at 86,400 miles.
How long is the warrantee on your new ones?

Not sure what this has to do with anything, either, and you mean
"warranty" (I am the warrantee; BFG is the warrantor), but a quick trip to
the BFG website tells me my P205/70R14s have a UTQG rating of 400AB.

-Stern
 
D

Daniel J. Stern

Jan 1, 1970
0
It is funny how your '62 is no longer a '62, now that you have upgraded it
with modern parts.

Well, I could probably find somebody who's stockpiled 1962 tires, oil,
batteries and spark plugs, but what's the point? Nobody does that, whether
their car was made in '62 or '92 or '02.
My guess is you have updated the ignition with some sort of electronic, like
the newer cars you are puting down.

Your guess is about 40% correct. Care to try for better?
Very few autos in '62 had AC, my guess is another option from a more modern
era??

Nope, original '62.
Disk brakes? Another upgrade perhaps??

Yep, from a '66.

-Stern
 
J

Jonathan Barnes

Jan 1, 1970
0
Walter Driedger said:
I spent time in East Africa just as the transition from British motorcycles
to Japanese was occuring. BSAs required daily maintenance. Reading a book
on the subject made it clear that motorcycle maintence was a life style
choice. My Jap bike ran without maintenance for five years and then I got a
new one. I was looking for transportation, not a hobby. I remember seeing
a mountain of old BSA bikes behind the Peace Corp office. The new ones were
all Jap. At the same time all the Land Rovers were being replaced by Toyota
and VW.. There were a lot of Land Rovers but very few new ones. They were
owned by hobbyists. The Toyotas and VWs were okwned by profitable
businesses.


That would be the ideal machine. Zero maintenance. Naturally the lifetime
is fixed but so what. Nothing lasts for ever.


You have a point here. Thrid party parts will be harder to get, I suppose.
At least until they are all standardised once again. The unavailabilty of
ICs is more due to the transition technology phase cars went through. This
will stabilize.


I already have a job. I get paid a lot more than the effective hourly rate
for hand making a piston ring. I wonder how many mass produced piston rings
I could buy and pay for in the time it took you to make one.

Walter.

Probably less time than you would think, I'm well set up for this type of
job.. Why, because my job is designing and making one off jigs and tools
that assemble car parts ( ignition leads ).

You are relying on me and my associates to provide you with parts...

You want to find out how much you have to pay for a piston ring as a one
off, the one in your car, unlike the Austin 7's will have been made with a
lot of hi Tec...

I have to maintain the production equipment... If the manufacturer has gone
bust it's not unusual to have to do a partial re design to replace an item,
this is economic on a U.K. pound 250,000 machine... If you can't get a spare
your car is scrap.

The ability to do one off maintenance is dwindling as it IS uneconomic...
but this places us all at the mercy of the producers... when they don't sell
the spares you need it's time to scrap the car.

Jonathan

Barnes's theorem; for every foolproof device
there is a fool greater than the proof.

To reply remove AT
 
D

Daniel J. Stern

Jan 1, 1970
0
That would be the ideal machine.

The hell you say. We already live in *far* too much of a throw-away
society. The resources required, pollution and waste produced in producing
a new vehicle are truly vast compared to the resources required and
pollution/waste produced in keeping an existing one on the road, *even*
factoring in improvements in vehicular efficiency and reductions in
vehicular exhaust emissions.

DS
 
J

~^Johnny^~

Jan 1, 1970
0
I await with interest the time when some of the current cars need new IC's
for their systems and the manufacturers have run out of stocks.

I would hope to hell I could just download a firmware flash from some Japanese
website. ;->


--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

~~~~~~~~
The first time that Microsoft makes a product that
doesn't suck is when they start making vacuum cleaners!
-Biker Lynn
~~~~~~~~
 
J

~^Johnny^~

Jan 1, 1970
0
Common knowledge, and commonly incorrect.

There are numerous products whose quality is immeasurably better than it was
"back in the good old days". The most prominent example of this is the
automotive industry--

You have GOT to be kidding.
 
J

~^Johnny^~

Jan 1, 1970
0
True ... unfortunately you will spend a significant portion of your time
fabricating, repairing or adjusting.


....just like the lawyers, body shops, and claims agents do today. ;->
--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

~~~~~~~~
"Stealing our copyright provisions in the dead of night when no-one
is looking is piracy. It's not piracy when kids swap music over the
Internet using Napster..." - Courtney Love
~~~~~~~~
 
J

~^Johnny^~

Jan 1, 1970
0
You have a point here. Thrid party parts will be harder to get, I suppose.
At least until they are all standardised once again. The unavailabilty of
ICs is more due to the transition technology phase cars went through. This
will stabilize.

Aw, bullshit.
It's planned obsolescence. The idea is to force a 10 to 20 year life cycle
upon the newly manufactured automobile.

My FIL (RIP) had a suggestion for Hyundai, and don't laugh (even though I
did), it is almost getting so ridiculous: "Why do they even bother to outfit
them with a gas cap? They could take a lesson from Bic. Disposable butane
lighters have been around for many years, and the market is alive and well."


Typical throw-away mentality of today's society.






--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

~~~~~~~~
Maybe I should ask Radio Shack. They claim they've got answers;
but frankly, if Radio Shack were our provider, we'd _really_ be in
trouble now, wouldn't we?
~~~~~~~~
 
J

~^Johnny^~

Jan 1, 1970
0
The hell you say. We already live in *far* too much of a throw-away
society.
Amen.


The resources required, pollution and waste produced in producing
a new vehicle are truly vast compared to the resources required and
pollution/waste produced in keeping an existing one on the road, *even*
factoring in improvements in vehicular efficiency and reductions in
vehicular exhaust emissions.
BINGO!



DS

--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

~~~~~~~~
A little knowledge that acts is worth infinitely
more than much knowledge that is idle. -Kahlil Gibran
~~~~~~~~
 
D

Daniel J. Stern

Jan 1, 1970
0
I spent time in East Africa just as the transition from British
motorcycles to Japanese was occuring. BSAs required daily maintenance.

Red herring. The fondness is for well-designed, well-built machines that
*can be maintained* versus machines that *cannot be maintained*. Nobody
misses machines that are poorly designed and poorly built, therefore
requiring *constant* maintenance.

DS
 
W

Walter Driedger

Jan 1, 1970
0
Daniel J. Stern said:
Red herring. The fondness is for well-designed, well-built machines that
*can be maintained* versus machines that *cannot be maintained*. Nobody
misses machines that are poorly designed and poorly built, therefore
requiring *constant* maintenance.
Actually, I prefer well-designed, well-built machines that don't need any
maintenance. Like electric motors that last for 30 years without fixing,
oiling, tuning, etc. That is what I meant by 'the ideal machine'.

Engineer says: Low maintenance.

Engineer means: Impossible to repair



Engineer says: Easy maintenance.

Engineer means: Needs constant fiddling



Walter
 
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