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British propensity for dimunitive nicknames (tranny, addy, proggy,etc.)

M

msg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Greetings:

Just wondering when the confusing usages of diminutive names
crept into English (by the English), such as 'tranny' for
I presume transistor or perhaps transformer?, 'addy' for
I presume address, 'proggy' for I presume program ,etc.
In the U.S., the only usage of 'tranny' that I've ever heard
referred to the gearbox between the clutch and the driveshaft or
in more recent times it is a reference to transgendered people ;)
Sometimes these terms make for genuine confusion as do
the multitude of country specific acronyms often seen in
postings. The shorthand for transistor in circles hereabouts
is simply 'Q' as in "we need to order that list of Q's, R's,
C's and D's."

I wonder how far aflung in the British Empire those usages
have spread?

As to other usages, it is quite disconcerting to see posts from
India which substitute the word 'doubt' for 'question', which
is so common now that one wonders if there isn't some etymological
issue at play there, as in "I have a doubt about these MOSFETS: what
is their rated Vgs?"

Anyone else with similar observations to add?

Regards,

Michael
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
msg said:
Greetings:

Just wondering when the confusing usages of diminutive names
crept into English (by the English), such as 'tranny' for
I presume transistor or perhaps transformer?,

Transformer IME. It's also slang for a transvestite.

'addy' for I presume address,

Not of UK origin AFAIK

'proggy' for I presume program ,

Never ever heard anyone ever use that.

etc.
In the U.S., the only usage of 'tranny' that I've ever heard
referred to the gearbox between the clutch and the driveshaft or
in more recent times it is a reference to transgendered people ;)
Sometimes these terms make for genuine confusion as do
the multitude of country specific acronyms often seen in
postings. The shorthand for transistor in circles hereabouts
is simply 'Q' as in "we need to order that list of Q's, R's,
C's and D's."

Why Q ? I've never understood that or indeed U for an IC.

I use 'TR' and 'IC' and that's popular UK practice.

I wonder how far aflung in the British Empire those usages
have spread?

What Empire ? You're about 50 years out of date ! FYI though, there are many
different linguistic peculiarities across the Commonwealth.

As to other usages, it is quite disconcerting to see posts from
India which substitute the word 'doubt' for 'question',

Do they ?
which is so common now that one wonders if there isn't some etymological
issue at play there, as in "I have a doubt about these MOSFETS: what
is their rated Vgs?"

I think the poster does indeed mean doubt in such a case.

Graham
 
M

msg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Eeyore said:
msg wrote:



Do they ?




I think the poster does indeed mean doubt in such a case.

I chose a somewhat ambiguous example - the context would clarify it.
Here are some excerpts of recent posts to 'comp.arch.embedded' which illustrate
the issue:

The poster is asking various questions:
My doubt number 2 (sorry for sounding so stupid as its very new to me)
if I am able to write some code using C on some IDE with gcc as the
compiler. Now will the generated elf file will sit in my processor and
be accessibly to the VxWorks OS like it is in windows??

The poster is asking a question about device I/O:
I am using a MSP430x4xx series controller. I have a doubt regarding
the sharing of the LCD segment pins with I/O pins.
I am using an LCD glass with 30 segments. The LCD controller of the
device gives option of either setting S0-S31 OR S0-S27. Is there a way
of setting S0-S29. This would save me two very valuable I/O pins.

The poster is asking questions about a compiler:
The sample program which i given here if i compile in Tornado IDE
of either Windows or Solaris that means creating project then adding
this sample.cpp file "i am not getting any page faults error".
Everything is working properly.
Now my doubt is why not it's working in Command line based in
Solaris & how can i make it to work. What procedure should i have to follow.

The poster is asking about GUI API programming (not commenting on a
suggestion, etc.):
My doubt is even if you use GUI instead of program
instructions interms of final binary how about the size of memory?Do
applications like Labview which is talked about be able to generate
final binary and help you to fuse code in final hardware with optimised
mem size?

Ad infinitum...

In such posts, the usage of 'doubt' is a transliteration from 'question'; the
poster is not 'in doubt', he does not 'have doubts' nor does he state 'I doubt'
as a response to suggestions or in an argument, nor does he 'doubt that...'.
'Doubt' is a substitution for 'question'. Why is this so prevalent from
India and parts of the near east? Is this a dialectical issue?

Regards,

Michael
 
A

Arfa Daily

Jan 1, 1970
0
msg said:
I chose a somewhat ambiguous example - the context would clarify it.
Here are some excerpts of recent posts to 'comp.arch.embedded' which
illustrate
the issue:

The poster is asking various questions:

The poster is asking a question about device I/O:

The poster is asking questions about a compiler:
follow.

The poster is asking about GUI API programming (not commenting on a
suggestion, etc.):

Ad infinitum...

In such posts, the usage of 'doubt' is a transliteration from 'question';
the
poster is not 'in doubt', he does not 'have doubts' nor does he state 'I
doubt'
as a response to suggestions or in an argument, nor does he 'doubt
that...'.
'Doubt' is a substitution for 'question'. Why is this so prevalent from
India and parts of the near east? Is this a dialectical issue?

Regards,

Michael
I think that the answer to your question lies in some of the other
'quaintisms' - yes, I know that's not a real word - to be found in those
various India-originating posts. Phrases such as "LCD glass" and "why not
it's working" are a clear indication that English, whilst being written
(spoken) in an entirely understandable way, is not the poster's first
language, just one that they learn as an alternative from an early age,
doubtless due to the colonial influence that came from the days of our
'occupation' of India when it was part of the British Empire. As Graham
pointed out, these are days long gone now.

As far as the various abreviations that you quote, the only one that I
recognise, and indeed use (is the reason for your question the fact that I
used it in a post from earlier today??) is "tranny". For as long as I have
been in this business - that's about 37 years now - it has been used as a
'spoken' abreviation for transformer in the main, and occasionally for a
transistor, as in "that amp needs a new pair of output trannies in its left
channel". Agreed, if it was a valve amp, it might need a new "output tranny"
meaning output transformer, but I've always found that the context in which
it's used leaves little or no doubt as to what is intended. I think that the
reason that it gets used on here is that Usenet posts and e-mail are
'conversational' in the way that they are used.

I don't really think that there is any definitive answer to your basic
question of "when?", as language is an ever-evolving entity, and new words
and phrases or new ways to use words and phrases contextually, are moving in
and out of use all the time. Some stay, some fade. At the moment, and for
the last few years, all of the kids here now go to "uni" rather than
"university", as you did in my day. This has almost certainly been picked up
from the Australian, where this abreviation seems in common usage, as a
result of the youth obsession here with Australian soaps, which are shown
daily on TV, and followed avidly by them.

I can't actually think of too many 'electronic' abreviations in common
verbal usage here. "Screwdy" maybe for a screwdriver. "Amp" for amplifier.
"Sig genny" - obvious "Speccy" or "Spec-Anny" for a spectrum analyser might
be a few, but this have all been in use for as long as I can remember.

Arfa
 
N

N Cook

Jan 1, 1970
0
msg said:
Greetings:

Just wondering when the confusing usages of diminutive names
crept into English (by the English), such as 'tranny' for
I presume transistor or perhaps transformer?, 'addy' for
I presume address, 'proggy' for I presume program ,etc.
In the U.S., the only usage of 'tranny' that I've ever heard
referred to the gearbox between the clutch and the driveshaft or
in more recent times it is a reference to transgendered people ;)
Sometimes these terms make for genuine confusion as do
the multitude of country specific acronyms often seen in
postings. The shorthand for transistor in circles hereabouts
is simply 'Q' as in "we need to order that list of Q's, R's,
C's and D's."

I wonder how far aflung in the British Empire those usages
have spread?

As to other usages, it is quite disconcerting to see posts from
India which substitute the word 'doubt' for 'question', which
is so common now that one wonders if there isn't some etymological
issue at play there, as in "I have a doubt about these MOSFETS: what
is their rated Vgs?"

Anyone else with similar observations to add?

Regards,

Michael

So I will have to add tranny/trannie to this file for translating between
USA and UK
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm
Any other electronic technical additions welcome
 
R

Ron(UK)

Jan 1, 1970
0
Arfa said:
I can't actually think of too many 'electronic' abreviations in common
verbal usage here. "Screwdy" maybe for a screwdriver. "Amp" for amplifier.
"Sig genny" - obvious "Speccy" or "Spec-Anny" for a spectrum analyser might
be a few, but this have all been in use for as long as I can remember.

Screwy, sig-gen, scope, nippers, conk (condenser), pot, reccy, juice,
the list goes on, there may even be a North/South divide here.
When you enter the technical world of 'The Theatre' shortforms and slang
abound... ceeforms, soco's, leko`s grellies, moles, pyros, twofers and
threefers, limes etc.

I guess every trade has it`s own language.

Ron(UK)
 
F

Franc Zabkar

Jan 1, 1970
0
Greetings:

Just wondering when the confusing usages of diminutive names
crept into English (by the English), such as 'tranny' for
I presume transistor or perhaps transformer?, 'addy' for
I presume address, 'proggy' for I presume program ,etc.
In the U.S., the only usage of 'tranny' that I've ever heard
referred to the gearbox between the clutch and the driveshaft or
in more recent times it is a reference to transgendered people ;)
Sometimes these terms make for genuine confusion as do
the multitude of country specific acronyms often seen in
postings. The shorthand for transistor in circles hereabouts
is simply 'Q' as in "we need to order that list of Q's, R's,
C's and D's."

I wonder how far aflung in the British Empire those usages
have spread?

As to other usages, it is quite disconcerting to see posts from
India which substitute the word 'doubt' for 'question', which
is so common now that one wonders if there isn't some etymological
issue at play there, as in "I have a doubt about these MOSFETS: what
is their rated Vgs?"

Anyone else with similar observations to add?

Regards,

Michael

How did "arse" become "ass"?

Why do Americans pronounce "solder" as "sodder"?

What happened to the "h" in "human" and "herb"?

Why do Aussies say Bazza/Gazza/Shazza when they mean
Barry/Garry/Sharon?

What is the point of Cockney rhyming slang?

Why do Kiwis say "sex" when they mean "six"?

Why do Chinese English speakers (for example in Singapore) say
"spoiled" when they mean "damaged" or "faulty"?

- Franc Zabkar
 
M

msg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Franc Zabkar wrote:

Why do Chinese English speakers (for example in Singapore) say
"spoiled" when they mean "damaged" or "faulty"?

Yes, I have also seen this in posts but it didn't grate as much
as the odd use of 'doubt'.

Regards,

Michael
 
M

msg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Meat Plow wrote:

Funny I suppose that you Brits refer to a CRT as a tube yet insist on
calling a tube a valve.

Indeed, some time back on some Usenet N.G. I read a post inquiring
if the Brits called a CRT a 'picture valve'? There was no reply.

Regards,

Michael
 
A

Arfa Daily

Jan 1, 1970
0
Franc Zabkar said:
How did "arse" become "ass"?

Why do Americans pronounce "solder" as "sodder"?

What happened to the "h" in "human" and "herb"?

Why do Aussies say Bazza/Gazza/Shazza when they mean
Barry/Garry/Sharon?

What is the point of Cockney rhyming slang?

Why do Kiwis say "sex" when they mean "six"?

Why do Chinese English speakers (for example in Singapore) say
"spoiled" when they mean "damaged" or "faulty"?

- Franc Zabkar

Cockney rhyming slang has a long tradition in the east end of London dating
back to when Sir Robert Peel's first police constables were put on the
street. They were known as 'peelers' or 'bobbies', both for Robert Peel's
name. The rhyming slang grew up, so the story goes, so that east end
'villains' could talk freely in the presence of these constables, using
rhyming slang 'code', that only those in their 'group' would understand, and
not the policemen. These days, it's a 'verbal badge' worn by anyone from
that end of London right through into Essex, not just true Cockneys, born
within the sound of Bow bells (the church of St Mary le Bow) - although even
that is these days open to some degree of interpretation.

Many of the more well known rhyming slang phrases are used by people from
all areas of the country now like "that's a really pony amp" - (Pony and
trap - crap) or "Fred's on the dog for ya !" - (dog and bone - phone) or "Go
take a butcher's at that !" - (butcher's hook - look)

Arfa
 
A

Arfa Daily

Jan 1, 1970
0
msg said:
Meat Plow wrote:



Indeed, some time back on some Usenet N.G. I read a post inquiring
if the Brits called a CRT a 'picture valve'? There was no reply.

Regards,

Michael

Back when I were a lad like, just doin' me learnin' in the TV repair trade,
customers used to call anything that led to no picture, "the picture valve".
On many occasions, I would go into a house and ask the customer what the
problem was, and they would reply "Oh, me 'usband says it'll be the picture
valve, me duck" ('me duck' is a sort of term of endearment, much used by
older people in some parts of the country). So you'd go ahead and stick a
new boost rectifier in, or a field output valve, or a tuner mixer valve, and
then the customer would look knowingly at the old one and say " Ah, it was
the picture valve then ?" But I can't recall anyone ever referring to the
picture tube as anything other than that or CRT. Customers always knew it to
be "The tube", and according to them, if it wasn't picture valve (or sound
valve) trouble, then it must be that the tube's gone ...

Happy days !

Arfa
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
Meat said:
Funny I suppose that you Brits refer to a CRT as a tube yet insist on
calling a tube a valve.

The reason for calling your tube a valve is because it has a current controlling
effect. As in a water valve also controls the flow of water.

In the case of a CRT the control aspect no longer applies to some load part of
the circuit so I can understand why it wouldn't be called a valve. Also we'd
have to have a different acronym which would be a bit silly.

Graham
 
N

N Cook

Jan 1, 1970
0
Arfa Daily said:
Cockney rhyming slang has a long tradition in the east end of London dating
back to when Sir Robert Peel's first police constables were put on the
street. They were known as 'peelers' or 'bobbies', both for Robert Peel's
name. The rhyming slang grew up, so the story goes, so that east end
'villains' could talk freely in the presence of these constables, using
rhyming slang 'code', that only those in their 'group' would understand, and
not the policemen. These days, it's a 'verbal badge' worn by anyone from
that end of London right through into Essex, not just true Cockneys, born
within the sound of Bow bells (the church of St Mary le Bow) - although even
that is these days open to some degree of interpretation.

Many of the more well known rhyming slang phrases are used by people from
all areas of the country now like "that's a really pony amp" - (Pony and
trap - crap) or "Fred's on the dog for ya !" - (dog and bone - phone) or "Go
take a butcher's at that !" - (butcher's hook - look)

Arfa

My favourite is titfer for a hat, via "tit for tat"
Who was Ruby Murray anyway ?

And contrary to the diminutive argument
"apples and pears" , "dog and bone" etc are all longer than the original
 
N

N Cook

Jan 1, 1970
0
Meat Plow said:
Funny I suppose that you Brits refer to a CRT as a tube yet insist on
calling a tube a valve.

Only yesterday I had to correct my earlier misunderstood email reply to
someone in the USA.
I had earlier slipped into Brit-speak saying I'd posted something to him,
wheras for USA I have to say I had mailed it to him.
Americans pay checks with bills - we pay bills with cheques.
 
A

Arfa Daily

Jan 1, 1970
0
N Cook said:
My favourite is titfer for a hat, via "tit for tat"
Who was Ruby Murray anyway ?

And contrary to the diminutive argument
"apples and pears" , "dog and bone" etc are all longer than the original

Well, that's not strictly true in *proper* Cockney rhyming slang, where the
actual rhyming word is left off, this being the part of it that makes it
supposedly a 'coded' language derivative only for understanding by the
initiated. So "apples and pears" only gets spoken as "apples" , "dog and
bone" as "dog", "Ruby Murray" as "Ruby". Interestingly, there was a curry
shop in my town called "The Ruby". A year or two back it changed hands, and
became a take away fish and chip shop. It still bears the name "The Ruby",
so that's a good example of how Cockney rhyming slang has spread out across
the country (I'm about 70 miles from London) and been bastardised into
something else, that is actually not understood by the people who have taken
it on.

Indeed, in some areas of the country, there are newly created examples of
rhyming slang that are 'in the vein of', but don't actually *quite* follow
the rules of proper Cockney rhyming slang, presumably because they have been
thought up by the ever-thicker youth of this country, who don't understand
the 'rules' of this language variation. Such 'new' attempts may well be as
long or even longer than the original plain-language word or phrase that
they are replacing.These are also the examples where the 'rhyming' word is
not very good, or the whole phrase is spoken so that even their
dumber-than-them mates can still understand what they are saying ...

Do you really not know who Ruby Murray was ?

Arfa
 
N

N Cook

Jan 1, 1970
0
Arfa Daily said:
Well, that's not strictly true in *proper* Cockney rhyming slang, where the
actual rhyming word is left off, this being the part of it that makes it
supposedly a 'coded' language derivative only for understanding by the
initiated. So "apples and pears" only gets spoken as "apples" , "dog and
bone" as "dog", "Ruby Murray" as "Ruby". Interestingly, there was a curry
shop in my town called "The Ruby". A year or two back it changed hands, and
became a take away fish and chip shop. It still bears the name "The Ruby",
so that's a good example of how Cockney rhyming slang has spread out across
the country (I'm about 70 miles from London) and been bastardised into
something else, that is actually not understood by the people who have taken
it on.

Indeed, in some areas of the country, there are newly created examples of
rhyming slang that are 'in the vein of', but don't actually *quite* follow
the rules of proper Cockney rhyming slang, presumably because they have been
thought up by the ever-thicker youth of this country, who don't understand
the 'rules' of this language variation. Such 'new' attempts may well be as
long or even longer than the original plain-language word or phrase that
they are replacing.These are also the examples where the 'rhyming' word is
not very good, or the whole phrase is spoken so that even their
dumber-than-them mates can still understand what they are saying ...

Do you really not know who Ruby Murray was ?

Arfa

Then there is back-slang taken into Polari.
eg riah for hair
Polari somehow connects Italians, bargees, actors and homosexuals but how ?
and British Romany, popularised by the likes of "dell-boy" eg Kushti.
What was the one , in the 1940s ?, where you swapped first and last
syllables and added something to make a lilt
 
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