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Build USB Long Cable

J

Jamie

Jan 1, 1970
0
if I build by my self a USB cable by 4 seperate coaxial cable
together , it's can work over 5 meter?
if you have low capacitance how ever, I would make a buffer
driver system to beef up the current.
They use to make these things call Black Boxes for RS-232
runs. they were nothing more than twisted balanced input and
outputs which gives you lots length to work with.

actually, I think products already exist for that.
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jamie said:
if you have low capacitance how ever, I would make a buffer
driver system to beef up the current.
They use to make these things call Black Boxes for RS-232
runs. they were nothing more than twisted balanced input and
outputs which gives you lots length to work with.


USB is NOTHING like RS232 in its cabling requirements.

actually, I think products already exist for that.


There are two conductors for data, power and ground. There are USB
extenders on the market when you need a longer line. You run into timing
errors with long cables, without using an extender. It is a
bi-directional communications device that regenerates the USB signals.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
J

Jamie

Jan 1, 1970
0
Michael said:
USB is NOTHING like RS232 in its cabling requirements.






There are two conductors for data, power and ground. There are USB
extenders on the market when you need a longer line. You run into timing
errors with long cables, without using an extender. It is a
bi-directional communications device that regenerates the USB signals.
Yes, I am aware of this, so isn't the RS-232 as 2 conductors RX and TX
for data streams how ever, that doesn't change the facts that long haul
units were made implementing twisted pair balanced lines to transport
between to units and thus back into RS232 again.
I know this because I have a whole load of these "Black Boxes" and
they also work with USB, I'm using one to transport
USB cable on a long haul from a machine to a PC to monitor settings
in a machine...
I simply made a conversion plug and used a couple of existing black
boxes I have in my arsenal.
These units claim a long distant but the 2 i'm currently using are
running aprox 3000 Feet to get the signal into the shop.
They have been working fine with no data problems that i know of..
on the scope the signal looks good..
Can't tell you the speed it's operating at because I don't know that..

P.S.
we're using FEP cat 5 wire if that makes any difference, since we
make that kind of wire there, it was just convenient at the time.
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jamie said:
Yes, I am aware of this, so isn't the RS-232 as 2 conductors RX and TX
for data streams how ever, that doesn't change the facts that long haul
units were made implementing twisted pair balanced lines to transport
between to units and thus back into RS232 again.

You want a 'balanced RS232' ?

Use RS485.

Graham
 
H

Homer J Simpson

Jan 1, 1970
0
if I build by my self a USB cable by 4 seperate coaxial cable
together , it's can work over 5 meter?

Only two of the lines carry signals, the other two are power, however the
spec says it won't work. But you can buy extender cables - try two of those
and see if it works.
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jamie said:
Yes, I am aware of this, so isn't the RS-232 as 2 conductors RX and TX
for data streams how ever, that doesn't change the facts that long haul
units were made implementing twisted pair balanced lines to transport
between to units and thus back into RS232 again.
I know this because I have a whole load of these "Black Boxes" and
they also work with USB, I'm using one to transport
USB cable on a long haul from a machine to a PC to monitor settings
in a machine...
I simply made a conversion plug and used a couple of existing black
boxes I have in my arsenal.
These units claim a long distant but the 2 i'm currently using are
running aprox 3000 Feet to get the signal into the shop.
They have been working fine with no data problems that i know of..
on the scope the signal looks good..
Can't tell you the speed it's operating at because I don't know that..

P.S.
we're using FEP cat 5 wire if that makes any difference, since we
make that kind of wire there, it was just convenient at the time.



Go ahead and keep advising people to do things outside of the specs.
You are obviously smarter than anyone else on Earth, including the
people who develop the technology and write the standards. Let people
waste their time tryting to make it work properly, what do you care?



--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
thanks all, but

I looking after cheap solution for long cable for long cable for my
Point devices (USB Keyboard + USB mouse + Touchpad).

It's posible to achive this target with some trick?
 
J

Jasen

Jan 1, 1970
0
if I build by my self a USB cable by 4 seperate coaxial cable
together , it's can work over 5 meter?

5m than you'll need a hub, after that you can have another 5 metres
(and then another hub if you want to go further).
 
C

Charlie Siegrist

Jan 1, 1970
0
C

Charlie Siegrist

Jan 1, 1970
0
Circa Sun, 27 May 2007 20:59:03 -0400 recorded as
<[email protected]> looks like Jamie
Yes, I am aware of this, so isn't the RS-232 as 2 conductors RX and TX
for data streams how ever, that doesn't change the facts that long haul
units were made implementing twisted pair balanced lines to transport
between to units and thus back into RS232 again.

It sounds like what you have is an RS232 to RS422/485 converter. Do you
have a part number or some other identifying mark for these "black boxes?"
I'm very interested in finding out how they buffer the input data.
I know this because I have a whole load of these "Black Boxes" and
they also work with USB, I'm using one to transport
USB cable on a long haul from a machine to a PC to monitor settings
in a machine...
I simply made a conversion plug and used a couple of existing black
boxes I have in my arsenal.
These units claim a long distant but the 2 i'm currently using are
running aprox 3000 Feet to get the signal into the shop.

Your shop is a half-mile from your home? That's a big property you have
there. Here is the limitation of your setup: cable length vs. data rate.
The data rate limit of RS422/485 varies with cable length. At 3000', you
will have 20% jitter (that's a lot) at a data rate of 800kbps. (Nat'l
Semiconductor Application Note 214, August 1993)

The USB 1.1 standard has two data rates, 1.5Mbps and 12Mbps. Apparently
the slowest USB rate exceeds by double the capability of the RS422/485
standard at that cable length. Commercial USB->RS485 converters I've
googled don't claim higher than 1Mbps (921.6kbps is a typical maximum).
I'd also like to find out how these commercial devices handle the data rate
difference. Anyone?
They have been working fine with no data problems that i know of..
on the scope the signal looks good..
Can't tell you the speed it's operating at because I don't know that..

If you can see the signal on a scope, then you should be able to calculate
the data rate. I'd be very interested in knowing what rate you are
achieving.
we're using FEP cat 5 wire if that makes any difference, since we
make that kind of wire there, it was just convenient at the time.

At <1Mbps data rates, cat 3 works fine (rated up to 10Mbps). You should
get no tangible advantage from using cat 5.
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
if I build by my self a USB cable by 4 seperate coaxial cable
together , it's can work over 5 meter?

I've used USB cable extenders, but except they had PS-2 mouse-type
connectors. I got reliable USB over 12', which is close to 4 meters.

Good Luck!
Rich
 
S

Spajky

Jan 1, 1970
0
if I build by my self a USB cable by 4 seperate coaxial cable
together , it's can work over 5 meter?

Yes :) it can be done :)

non-powered version:
http://193.189.160.28/seibert/HP/UsbEnh/UsbLongCable2.gif

& this I use also for powering a wifi Usb stick at the same time
http://193.189.160.28/seibert/HP/UsbEnh/UsbLongCable.gif

This last for example approx.15m long "fast DIY" made with ordinary TV
coax I used it for my active wifi UsbKey antenna experiments :
http://193.189.160.28/seibert/HP/UsbEnh/UsbProlAll.jpg
http://193.189.160.28/seibert/HP/UsbEnh/UsbProlEnds.jpg


Ps.: if anybody would like to check (pics&data only of) that my 2,4GHz
active WLAN UsbKey antenna DIY extending range experiments, you can do
it here (text is in my native language-slovene & not in english, so
you would not understand it probably, but you could get some clues) :
http://www.wlan-sat.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=26476#26476
... have fun ... :)
 
J

Jon Slaughter

Jan 1, 1970
0
Michael A. Terrell said:
Go ahead and keep advising people to do things outside of the specs.
You are obviously smarter than anyone else on Earth, including the
people who develop the technology and write the standards. Let people
waste their time tryting to make it work properly, what do you care?

Your a dumbass. Your the one who actually thinks they are the smartest
person on Earth and you get pissed when someone doesn't do things your way
or agree with your methods.
 
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