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building an electric circuit from paint

I'm an artist/designer and just a tiny bit familiar with electronics
and I'm conducting some research for an art project about the
electrical properties of oilpaint. A lot of pigments used in
traditional (oil)paint colours are metallic oxides. For example
Cadmium, Zinc, Titanium, Aluminium, Cobalt, Copper etc. Some of them
like Cadmium Selenide (Cadmium Red) and Zinc oxide (Zinc White) have
n-type and p-type (Thin oxide) semiconducting characteristics.

So will it be possible to make some kind of an electric circuit or
semiconducting switches out of a paint like substances based on these
metallic oxides pigments?

If so should I use an other medium than oil for better conductivity?

Can you draw a simple circuit with a paintbrush or will this idea
totally not work at all?

In advance I thank you for your thoughts and comments.

M.
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm an artist/designer and just a tiny bit familiar with electronics
and I'm conducting some research for an art project about the
electrical properties of oilpaint. A lot of pigments used in
traditional (oil)paint colours are metallic oxides. For example
Cadmium, Zinc, Titanium, Aluminium, Cobalt, Copper etc. Some of them
like Cadmium Selenide (Cadmium Red) and Zinc oxide (Zinc White) have
n-type and p-type (Thin oxide) semiconducting characteristics.

So will it be possible to make some kind of an electric circuit or
semiconducting switches out of a paint like substances based on these
metallic oxides pigments?

If so should I use an other medium than oil for better conductivity?

Can you draw a simple circuit with a paintbrush or will this idea
totally not work at all?

In advance I thank you for your thoughts and comments.

Most metal oxides are actually quite good insulators, but there is such
a thing as conductive paint - it's loaded with actual metal granules,
and so looks like metallic paint. I don't know what the base is (oil,
latex, ?...) although it probably varies by manufacturer and stuff.

But with conductive paint, you can paint working circuits - then you
could paint over them for color and actual electrical insulation in
case it will be handled.

But you'd have to use real components - I wouldn't get too excited about
trying to make semiconductor junctions out of any kind of paint. :)

And for complicated circuits you'd have to paint on both sides of the
canvas. ;-)

Have Fun!
Rich
 
R

Ron Capik

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich said:
Most metal oxides are actually quite good insulators, but there is such
a thing as conductive paint - it's loaded with actual metal granules,
and so looks like metallic paint. I don't know what the base is (oil,
latex, ?...) although it probably varies by manufacturer and stuff.

But with conductive paint, you can paint working circuits - then you
could paint over them for color and actual electrical insulation in
case it will be handled.

But you'd have to use real components - I wouldn't get too excited about
trying to make semiconductor junctions out of any kind of paint. :)

And for complicated circuits you'd have to paint on both sides of the
canvas. ;-)

Have Fun!
Rich

I do believe Princeton professor Steve Forrrest was involved
in the field of silk screened circuits with organic transistors
and such. Also some work at Kodak and [Lucent] Bell Labs.

Later...

Ron Capik
--
 
J

JeffM

Jan 1, 1970
0
alphacentauri@ doglover.com said:
I'm an artist/designer and just a tiny bit familiar with electronics
[...]conducting some research for an art project
about the electrical properties of oilpaint.
To be able to get repeatable results,
manufacturers would have to controlled their processes
for those properties. Alas...

....not to mention that as soon as you expose the product to air,
you contaminate it.
A lot of pigments used in traditional (oil)paint colours
are metallic oxides[...] Some of them[...]have n-type and p-type
(Thin oxide) semiconducting characteristics.
You missed a big point: ...WHEN PROPERLY DOPED.
It is the *impurities* in the CRYSTALLINE lattice
that gives them the desired properties
....and these must be CAREFULLY controlled.

In short, you are up against the same problems
as the guys who invented the first transistors:
Process technology must be exacting to get usable results.

As Rich said, there are conductive inks.
....which leaves the question: "How will you connect any *devices*
to these *conductors* to accomplish anything?"
http://groups.google.com/group/sci....e77b6e?q=conductive-epoxy+microwave+EXPENSIVE
 
D

default

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm an artist/designer and just a tiny bit familiar with electronics
and I'm conducting some research for an art project about the
electrical properties of oilpaint. A lot of pigments used in
traditional (oil)paint colours are metallic oxides. For example
Cadmium, Zinc, Titanium, Aluminium, Cobalt, Copper etc. Some of them
like Cadmium Selenide (Cadmium Red) and Zinc oxide (Zinc White) have
n-type and p-type (Thin oxide) semiconducting characteristics.

So will it be possible to make some kind of an electric circuit or
semiconducting switches out of a paint like substances based on these
metallic oxides pigments?

If so should I use an other medium than oil for better conductivity?

Can you draw a simple circuit with a paintbrush or will this idea
totally not work at all?

In advance I thank you for your thoughts and comments.

M.

That's one of the holy grails of development today - get rid of copper
traces and let an ink jet make the circuitry. It is even being done
on cheap electronic devices like remote controls.

To bridge the traces and avoid jumpers and two sided etched boards -
they shoot down a spray of lacquer through a mask to insulate traces
then follow that with a bridging compound high in carbon.

Every metallic oxide I know about is a very good insulator, but
copper, silver, gold, carbon, and even some aluminum paints are
reasonable conductors.
 
B

Bob Eld

Jan 1, 1970
0
default said:
That's one of the holy grails of development today - get rid of copper
traces and let an ink jet make the circuitry. It is even being done
on cheap electronic devices like remote controls.

To bridge the traces and avoid jumpers and two sided etched boards -
they shoot down a spray of lacquer through a mask to insulate traces
then follow that with a bridging compound high in carbon.

Every metallic oxide I know about is a very good insulator, but
copper, silver, gold, carbon, and even some aluminum paints are
reasonable conductors.

Sounds interesting. Tell us more about printing circuits with ink jet
printers. Are there commercial conductive ink cartridges available? How do
you attach components and connect to them. Do you have any information on
this?
 
C

Clint Sharp

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bob Eld said:
Sounds interesting. Tell us more about printing circuits with ink jet
printers. Are there commercial conductive ink cartridges available? How do
you attach components and connect to them. Do you have any information on
this?
Kind of jumping on the bandwagon here but some of the RFID tags use a
printed antenna, IIRC Elektor electronics gave away a sample of one a
few months back, you could try www.elektor-electronics.co.uk and search
the back issues for more details, it may lead you somewhere.
 
D

default

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sounds interesting. Tell us more about printing circuits with ink jet
printers. Are there commercial conductive ink cartridges available? How do
you attach components and connect to them. Do you have any information on
this?

This isn't consumer technology it is an industrial technique. And, it
should be noted, that it is only practical in something where the
current requirements are very low - like the switch matrix on a remote
- where 300 ohms is as good as a dead short. I'd guess that the speed
and conductivity is too low to be in competition with copper for most
applications.

On remotes they leave a bare copper pad and spray the conductive paint
to that - no components are connected that way, just board jumpers.
 
Bob said:
Sounds interesting. Tell us more about printing circuits with ink jet
printers. Are there commercial conductive ink cartridges available? How do
you attach components and connect to them. Do you have any information on
this?

Bob,

You might want to check around in the Homebrew_PCBs group, at
http://www.yahoogroups.com . This has been discussed, there, several
times. I don't know if it was ever successfully done. But the people
in that group do now seem to have good ways to print an etchant-resist
directly onto a bare PCB, with inkjet printers.

- Tom Gootee
 
I do believe Princeton professor Steve Forrrest was involved
in the field of silk screened circuits with organic transistors
and such. Also some work at Kodak and [Lucent] Bell Labs.
Good one!

Plastic transistors developed

A team of Bell Labs researchers-Howard Katz, V. Reddy Raju, Ananth
Dodabalapur, Andrew Lovinger, and chemist John Rogers-present their
latest findings on the first fully "printed" plastic transistor, which
uses a process similar to silk screening. Potential uses for plastic
transistors include flexible computer screens and "smart" cards, full
of vital statistics and buying power, and virtually indestructible.
http://www.greatachievements.org/?id=3956
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well yeah, I was thinking of making an/some insulation layer(s) from
non conductive paint if the circuit will become to complicated. :p

Paint like this?
http://www.2spi.com/catalog/spec_prep/cond_paints.html

That or something like it, at least that's what I was talking about.
You can't add some colour/pigments to it without ruining the
conductivity right?

I don't know the answer to this; you'd have to ask the manufacturer,
unless somebody else chimes in. :)

Cheers!
Rich
 
To be able to get repeatable results,
manufacturers would have to controlled their processes
for those properties. Alas...

Hmmm.. Yes. For the manufacturers the flawlessness and exact right mix
of silicium/germanium... with their inpurities/doping is essential to
make the material predictable and reliable for the mass production
process.

But in my experiment the reliability of the material is not that
important. Don't get me wrong, the goal is to let the circuit work but
it's going to be a crude one, hand made and only one production piece.
...not to mention that as soon as you expose the product to air,
you contaminate it.

Can you explain this a little more please?
You missed a big point: ...WHEN PROPERLY DOPED.
It is the *impurities* in the CRYSTALLINE lattice
that gives them the desired properties
...and these must be CAREFULLY controlled.
Aha... So semiconducting works only when the material has a very high
chemicaly purity with a perfect crystal sructure?

And by grinding it to powder and add some medium for viscosity the
semiconducting properties will be nil.
 
P

PhattyMo

Jan 1, 1970
0
default said:
That's one of the holy grails of development today - get rid of copper
traces and let an ink jet make the circuitry. It is even being done
on cheap electronic devices like remote controls.

Alot of PC keyboards are made in a similar way.
My old Microsoft "natural" keyboard got some rootbeer spilled in it,and
when I took it apart to clean it,I found most of the 'traces' eaten
clean off of the plastic film "circuit board"..it was hopeless.

It basically looked like they used the same "ink" used in those
conductive circuit-writer-pens. A silvery stuff.This was all laid down
on a thin sheet of plastic (like overhead projector transparencies.)
Three sheets total,two with the "circuits" laid on them,and the third
inbetween,with a hole cut out for each button/set of contacts,just
enough space to insulate them,until you apply pressure.
 
G

Guest

Jan 1, 1970
0
A friend of mine built a layout of variable resistors using pencil lines
(graphite which is a form of carbon) on paper and paper clips. It "worked"
as long as you held your breath around it (it was very "touchy").
 
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