# 'bye for a while

J

#### John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
I've just taken on a contract which is going to keep me busy pretty
much full time until the end of the month, plus I'm finishing up
editing a book for Sams Technical Publishing, plus I've got an
interesting instrumentation application to study and then quote, so
I'm going to be outta here for a month or so...

See ya,

D

#### Dirk Bruere at Neopax

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
I've just taken on a contract which is going to keep me busy pretty
much full time until the end of the month, plus I'm finishing up
editing a book for Sams Technical Publishing, plus I've got an
interesting instrumentation application to study and then quote, so
I'm going to be outta here for a month or so...

Congratulations on acquiring a real life.

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org

W

#### Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote...
Speaking of which...

A

#### Al Borowski

Jan 1, 1970
0
Winfield said:
Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote...

Speaking of which...

Don't tease

Can you please give an ETA for the next edition?

thanks,

Al

M

#### martin griffith

Jan 1, 1970
0
Don't tease

Can you please give an ETA for the next edition?

thanks,

Al
Well, if we could prevent Win for spending so much time
here............

martin

Serious error.
All shortcuts have disappeared.
Screen. Mind. Both are blank.

W

#### Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
Al Borowski wrote...
Don't tease
Can you please give an ETA for the next edition?

That's what our publisher says (for the last 7 years).
But we are working on it. You won't be disappointed,
it'll be good. Says me.

J

#### Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Winfield,
That's what our publisher says (for the last 7 years).
But we are working on it. You won't be disappointed,
it'll be good. Says me.
Now if I could have just one more wish: Would it be possible to add some
micro controller stuff into the next AoE?

Something along the lines of how to solve rather mundane tasks with the
new uCs that can be sent into low power modes. Making timers that we
used to do with multiple 4060 chips, using them as PWM or V/F anf F/V
blocks, designing DC-DC converters with them etc. Especially the latter
would really be useful for most of us.

When uCs were over $3 much of this wouldn't have made sense. Now that many plain vanilla versions are under$1 it does as long as the circuits
don't need built-in ADC and other deluxe features.

Regards, Joerg

R

#### Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Winfield, ....
Now if I could have just one more wish: Would it be possible to add some
micro controller stuff into the next AoE?

Something along the lines of how to solve rather mundane tasks with the
new uCs that can be sent into low power modes. Making timers that we
used to do with multiple 4060 chips, using them as PWM or V/F anf F/V
blocks, designing DC-DC converters with them etc. Especially the latter
would really be useful for most of us.

When uCs were over $3 much of this wouldn't have made sense. Now that many plain vanilla versions are under$1 it does as long as the circuits
don't need built-in ADC and other deluxe features.
Speaking of cheap micros, are there any that can be programmed with
nothing but a serial bit and one 5V supply? I have a development
board for the Motorola 68HC705, but it's kind of a PITA - a naked
board about 6" x 9" that just lays there on the bench, with a serial
cable and a flying ribbon cable and plug to plug into the target
system. But I've had the GUI for it up about a couple of times, and
got to the point where I could run their example blinking LED, but
I got sidetracked and it's been collecting dust for about 4 years.

Thanks,
Rich

P

#### Paul Burridge

Jan 1, 1970
0
Now if I could have just one more wish: Would it be possible to add some
micro controller stuff into the next AoE?

And not treat MOSFETs and JFETs together in the same section....?

J

#### Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Rich,
Speaking of cheap micros, are there any that can be programmed with
nothing but a serial bit and one 5V supply? ...
Not really, I think. Most need JTAG which is quite a bunch of wires. I
do not believe it was necessary to have this many but it's the standard.
I wish there was a scheme like Dallas uses it on their memory chips.

I am just exploring how to monitor three to four (pretty low) voltages
with a vanilla MSP430. Not so fast, says the data sheet. It was geared
towards just measuring resistors and not voltages like the Philips parts
were. I was hoping to replace a whole plethora of parts with an MSP but
many plain vanilla versions are under $1 it does as long as the circuits don't need built-in ADC and other deluxe features. What you need is a high-priced^H^H^H^Hcost-effective (that way the advice is valuable _and_ cost effective) out of town (not the jerks you already know who are just around the corner and don't know squat) consultant. A #### Al Borowski Jan 1, 1970 0 Speaking of cheap micros, are there any that can be programmed with nothing but a serial bit and one 5V supply? Do you mean, programmed via a serial port? If so, you might be interested in a bootloader. Its basically a microcontroller, programmed so it can program itself over a serial port. Of course only micros that can write their own flash can do this. cheers, Al J #### Joerg Jan 1, 1970 0 Hi Al, Do you mean, programmed via a serial port? If so, you might be interested in a bootloader. Its basically a microcontroller, programmed so it can program itself over a serial port. Of course only micros that can write their own flash can do this. The MSP can, so this may be an option. Regards, Joerg S #### Spehro Pefhany Jan 1, 1970 0 Speaking of cheap micros, are there any that can be programmed with nothing but a serial bit and one 5V supply? I have a development board for the Motorola 68HC705, but it's kind of a PITA - a naked board about 6" x 9" that just lays there on the bench, with a serial cable and a flying ribbon cable and plug to plug into the target system. But I've had the GUI for it up about a couple of times, and got to the point where I could run their example blinking LED, but I got sidetracked and it's been collecting dust for about 4 years. Thanks, Rich Not really cheap, but some (all?) of the ADC micros can be so programmed. There's bootloader code in ROM. Many others require only$100 or $150 worth of module, and that allows access to debugging features in some processors that mean that you get a lot of the benefit of an expensive real-time emulator, almost for free. There's JTAG and Microchip has their own system. Usually it ties up a few pins and a bit of on-chip resources, but that's often a reasonable price to pay. K #### Ken Smith Jan 1, 1970 0 Rich Grise said: Speaking of cheap micros, are there any that can be programmed with nothing but a serial bit and one 5V supply? Philips 8?C51RD2 does that the first time you power it up. After you've made it into a product, you can either (a) call 0FC00H or hold PSEN/ low to get back into the programming mode. R #### Robert Monsen Jan 1, 1970 0 Rich said: Speaking of cheap micros, are there any that can be programmed with nothing but a serial bit and one 5V supply? I have a development board for the Motorola 68HC705, but it's kind of a PITA - a naked board about 6" x 9" that just lays there on the bench, with a serial cable and a flying ribbon cable and plug to plug into the target system. But I've had the GUI for it up about a couple of times, and got to the point where I could run their example blinking LED, but I got sidetracked and it's been collecting dust for about 4 years. Thanks, Rich The Zilog Z8 Encore chip can be programmed using a single pin. It also can be debugged in system using this pin. Alas, it takes 3.3V rather than 5V. Its more expensive than the PICs though. -- Regards, Robert Monsen "Your Highness, I have no need of this hypothesis." - Pierre Laplace (1749-1827), to Napoleon, on why his works on celestial mechanics make no mention of God. R #### Rich Grise Jan 1, 1970 0 Hi Rich, Not really, I think. Most need JTAG which is quite a bunch of wires. I do not believe it was necessary to have this many but it's the standard. I wish there was a scheme like Dallas uses it on their memory chips. I am just exploring how to monitor three to four (pretty low) voltages with a vanilla MSP430. Not so fast, says the data sheet. It was geared towards just measuring resistors and not voltages like the Philips parts were. I was hoping to replace a whole plethora of parts with an MSP but if this forces me to use a$2 version with an ADC or use external opamps
that throws a wrench in there. Too expensive. It is amazing, even if a
discrete board holds 50 parts or so it is still a lot cheaper than that.

I just looked up a 68HC705P6 at Newark, and Yikes! They're \$3.77. 5 years
ago, they were like 89 cents, which is pretty cool for 4x ADCs and stuff.

Cheers!
Rich

C

#### ChrisGibboGibson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich said:
Speaking of cheap micros, are there any that can be programmed with
nothing but a serial bit and one 5V supply? I have a development
board for the Motorola 68HC705, but it's kind of a PITA - a naked
board about 6" x 9" that just lays there on the bench, with a serial
cable and a flying ribbon cable and plug to plug into the target
system. But I've had the GUI for it up about a couple of times, and
got to the point where I could run their example blinking LED, but
I got sidetracked and it's been collecting dust for about 4 years.

Why has no one mentioned that many flash PICs have a low voltage programming
mode. You need a programmer to set it. But once set, that PIC, for ever more
(or at least until you disable it), can be programmed at operating voltage (5V
usually) and serial data.

Gibbo

D

#### Dave VanHorn

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sure. All the Atmel AVRs can be programmed serially, with six wires. Power,
Ground, Reset, SCL, MOSI, and MISO.

T

#### Tim Shoppa

Jan 1, 1970
0
Why has no one mentioned that many flash PICs have a low voltage programming
mode. You need a programmer to set it. But once set, that PIC, for ever more
(or at least until you disable it), can be programmed at operating voltage (5V
usually) and serial data.

I prefer high-voltage programming even when low-voltage programming
is possible. That way I don't "lose" the RB4 pin for general usage.

With HV ICSP, you don't lose any pins (although there are
some easy-to-meet constraints on what you do with RA5/MCLR, RB6 and RB7).

Tim.

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