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Can cold weather damage electronics components and circuit boards?

W

wylbur37

Jan 1, 1970
0
During the winter season, outside temperatures can go down to 10
degrees Farenheit or lower.

Since many people carry their laptop computers to and from work
each day, I was wondering whether exposure to cold temperatures
can damage computer components or circuit boards.

My guess is that 10 degrees F is probably not cold enough to cause
damage, and that any temperature-related damage is probably caused by
too rapid a change in temperature (cracking as a result of expansion
and contraction).

Am I correct on this?

If 10 degrees F is not cold enough, how cold would it have to be for
damage to occur?
 
N

N Cook

Jan 1, 1970
0
wylbur37 said:
During the winter season, outside temperatures can go down to 10
degrees Farenheit or lower.

Since many people carry their laptop computers to and from work
each day, I was wondering whether exposure to cold temperatures
can damage computer components or circuit boards.

My guess is that 10 degrees F is probably not cold enough to cause
damage, and that any temperature-related damage is probably caused by
too rapid a change in temperature (cracking as a result of expansion
and contraction).

Am I correct on this?

If 10 degrees F is not cold enough, how cold would it have to be for
damage to occur?

It is more a question of water condensation on traces and components and
even into components via capillary action when the kit is brought indoors to
warm air, plus mechanical problems again more to do with condensation
 
M

Meat Plow

Jan 1, 1970
0
During the winter season, outside temperatures can go down to 10
degrees Farenheit or lower.

Since many people carry their laptop computers to and from work
each day, I was wondering whether exposure to cold temperatures
can damage computer components or circuit boards.

My guess is that 10 degrees F is probably not cold enough to cause
damage, and that any temperature-related damage is probably caused by
too rapid a change in temperature (cracking as a result of expansion
and contraction).

Am I correct on this?

If 10 degrees F is not cold enough, how cold would it have to be for
damage to occur?

What about electronic components in aircraft that are exposed to temps of
up tp -60F?
 
W

wylbur37

Jan 1, 1970
0
What about electronic components in aircraft that are exposed to temps of
up tp -60F?

Aircraft components, because they're expected to be exposed to
extreme
temperatures (both hot and cold), are specifically designed to use
materials that withstand such temperatures.

Consumer electronics, on the other hand, I would not expect to be
designed to such high standards.
 
L

Lostgallifreyan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Aircraft components, because they're expected to be exposed to
extreme
temperatures (both hot and cold), are specifically designed to use
materials that withstand such temperatures.

Consumer electronics, on the other hand, I would not expect to be
designed to such high standards.

N Cook said it right, the main problem is water getting in. Most electronic
parts are emuch happier with clod than with heat. A few things to watch for
though: laser diodes, for example, they run more efficiently cold, and you
have to scale their input currents down for safe maximum output power, so
writing a DVD at full speed in a cold machine might make the drive die. I'm
sure they compensate for this, but I doubt they're intended to be used for
that at freezing temperatures or lower. LCD's also don't like freezing.
They recover when warm. but while cold they are sluggish, and below
freezing point of water, will probably display nothing. I'm sure there are
plenty of specific parts with specific heat dependencies, but few will be
permanently damaged. As for connector reliability, it is hard to know. It
might increase the resistance, or it might help it overcome a molecular
layer of corrosion and reduce the resistance, improving the contact. A
well-made connector will probably be unaffected in any way you can easily
detect.
 
M

Meat Plow

Jan 1, 1970
0
Aircraft components, because they're expected to be exposed to
extreme
temperatures (both hot and cold), are specifically designed to use
materials that withstand such temperatures.

Consumer electronics, on the other hand, I would not expect to be
designed to such high standards.

Well I don't know about that. Electronic components and circuit boards
regardless of design standards are very happy with cold temps as long as
they are kept dry.
 
I

Impmon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well I don't know about that. Electronic components and circuit boards
regardless of design standards are very happy with cold temps as long as
they are kept dry.

But the battery aren't as forgiving as most compoments are to the cold
temp. Battery tended to be weaker when cold and in some cases using
cold battery can actually cause problems like shortened life.

Check the manual that comes with the laptop or other portable
electronic devices for operating temp, some may be permitted only as
low as freezing and not below.
 
A

Al

Jan 1, 1970
0
N Cook said:
It is more a question of water condensation on traces and components and
even into components via capillary action when the kit is brought indoors to
warm air, plus mechanical problems again more to do with condensation

The problem is with temperature cycling. The solder joints eventually
fracture and lead to either intermittents or opens. You can really
stress you electronics by letting it cold soak and then turning it on.
It may not fail immediately, but you have shortened its life.

Al
 
D

default

Jan 1, 1970
0
During the winter season, outside temperatures can go down to 10
degrees Farenheit or lower.

Since many people carry their laptop computers to and from work
each day, I was wondering whether exposure to cold temperatures
can damage computer components or circuit boards.

My guess is that 10 degrees F is probably not cold enough to cause
damage, and that any temperature-related damage is probably caused by
too rapid a change in temperature (cracking as a result of expansion
and contraction).

Am I correct on this?

If 10 degrees F is not cold enough, how cold would it have to be for
damage to occur?

Damage can and will occur if you power up a computer sitting at 10
degrees (anything below about 50 is risky). The hard drive
lubrication is thick and the speed of rotation can be low enough to
let the heads contact the disk.

And there's a risk of condensation or frost on the electronics boards.
Fluorescent back lights may not work. LCD screens ditto

But you are probably safe to store a computer at that temperature for
a time then let it warm and sit for a time to allow any moisture to
evaporate
 
C

Chris Jones

Jan 1, 1970
0
N said:
It is more a question of water condensation on traces and components and
even into components via capillary action when the kit is brought indoors
to warm air, plus mechanical problems again more to do with condensation

I wonder whether "Tin Pest" will change this situation with lead free
solders. As far as I understand it, under 13 degrees C, the tin can change
to a different crystal structure, which happens to occupy a different
physical volume, leading to obvious mechanical problems with solder joints.

Chris
 
D

DaveM

Jan 1, 1970
0
Meat Plow said:
What about electronic components in aircraft that are exposed to temps of
up tp -60F?


Ex-military electronics tech here... Almost all electronic assemblies that are
routinely exposed to temperature extremes are conformally coated with a silicone
or urethane "varnish" that keeps the condensate from getting to the PCB and
components on the PCB. Although not impervious to damage from soaking in salt
water or corrosive atmospheres, it does an admirable job in keeping the
equipment running.
The components are also rated to operate within specs at those temperature
extremes. The mil temperature range is -55C to +125C, which is easily
experienced by equipment in aircraft and land-based mobile equipment.
That's one reason why military equipment and components cost more.

In contrast, equipment and components that are rated for automotive service are
rated for higher temperatures as well, but not to the extremes of military
components. If memory serves, the industrial/automotive temperature range
is -40C to +85C. Conformal coatings and potting are methods used to protect
components and equipment used in those environments. The relative reliability
of present-day automotive electronics over those of 20 years ago is a testament
to the advances in component and assembly construction.

The commercial temperature range (including consumer electronics) is 0C to 70C.
Most PCs are constructed with commercial grade components. 0C is 32F, so you
can draw your own conclusions as to the reliability of a PC at sub-zero temps.
That's not to say that they won't work, but you shouldn't be surprised if they
don't. If a PC (or laptop) has been exposed to sub-freezing temps long enough
for all the components to acquiesce to the surrounding temperature, then it
would be prudent to allow it to thoroughly warm up to room temperature before
turning it on.
Condensation is a problem in those instances, since the internal components and
PCB are not protected by a conformal coating. True enough, most PCBs have a
solder mask that does a pretty good job at protecting the traces, the protection
does not extend to the components.

Cheers!!!
--
Dave M
MasonDG44 at comcast dot net (Just substitute the appropriate characters in the
address)

Some days you're the dog, some days the hydrant.
 
D

Dr. Anton T. Squeegee

Jan 1, 1970
0
During the winter season, outside temperatures can go down to 10
degrees Farenheit or lower.

Since many people carry their laptop computers to and from work
each day, I was wondering whether exposure to cold temperatures
can damage computer components or circuit boards.

The item most susceptible to such damage in a laptop would be the
display. LCD means 'Liquid Crystal Display,' and that liquid that holds
the crystals suspended does indeed have a freezing point.

Permanent and irreparable damage can be done to such displays if
they freeze. There are industrial-grade displays which are explicitly
designed and built for service at low temperatures, but they are
considerably more expensive than the typical 'consumer' display. I doubt
that you would find such in a laptop (or any other portable computer)
outside of the high-end ruggedized models made by GETAC, Dolch, and
Panasonic (the "Toughbook" series for the latter).

As to the other electronics: The standard "Commercial" operating
temperature range for most components is 0c (32f) to 50c (122f). You may
want to check the specifications for your specific laptop, but I would
say that 10f is way too cold to be operating such a device.
My guess is that 10 degrees F is probably not cold enough to cause
damage, and that any temperature-related damage is probably caused by
too rapid a change in temperature (cracking as a result of expansion
and contraction).

Am I correct on this?

No. Sustained exposure to 10 degrees F will freeze and permanently
damage the display, unless the laptop is explicitly designed and built
to withstand such (only your spec sheet will tell you).

Keep the peace(es).
 
J

JW

Jan 1, 1970
0
The hard drive
lubrication is thick and the speed of rotation can be low enough to
let the heads contact the disk.

Doubtful. A hard drive does not load the heads until the platters are up
to speed.
 
M

Martin Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
DaveM said:
In contrast, equipment and components that are rated for automotive
service are rated for higher temperatures as well, but not to the
extremes of military components. If memory serves, the
industrial/automotive temperature range is -40C to +85C.

Stuff that goes in the engine bay tends to be speced to +125 degC.
In-cab stuff usually gets away with 85 degC, but some of it not even
that. [We have a forward looking camera system that gets *really* hot
when it sits in the sun, so we have to use >85 deg rated parts, even
though it is mounted on the windscreen, in cab.]
Conformal coatings and potting are methods used to protect
components and equipment used in those environments. The relative
reliability of present-day automotive electronics over those of 20
years ago is a testament to the advances in component and assembly
construction.

Agreed!

Cheers,
Martin
 
D

default

Jan 1, 1970
0
Doubtful. A hard drive does not load the heads until the platters are up
to speed.

That's what I thought. I use slide in hds on my desktop for backups,
then they go into a different area for storage. Lost the D drive on a
cold start (~50 deg.) and didn't think much about it but dragged out
the backup drive that was stored at 40 deg. Instant audible
destruction. I'm guessing the mechanism was a thick lubricant - but
don't know that for a fact. I looked up the specification on the
drive and it was 0 deg - 160 degrees for storage and 45 -110 for
operating temperature.

There was no doubt what the sound was, the old Winchesters would fail
that way - come into work on a Monday and you could hear it as soon as
the elevator doors opened. The drives were under warranty so I didn't
open them.

Both drives were relatively new Hitachi/IBM.

I rigged a little heater I can put in under the drives and let them
warm for a few hours before powering if the room temp is below 60.
Maybe there is no correlation between the temperature and failure -
but with the work involved in switching a drive, I'm not prepared to
take the chance.
 
G

Guest

Jan 1, 1970
0
this is the kind of topic where useful info is shared and learned by
nebisches as i
..
 
M

Michael

Jan 1, 1970
0
Al wrote:
(snip)
The problem is with temperature cycling. The solder joints eventually
fracture and lead to either intermittents or opens. You can really
stress you electronics by letting it cold soak and then turning it on.
It may not fail immediately, but you have shortened its life.

Al


You make an excellent point, Al, that nobody else here brought up (as far as
I've read). Thermal cycling stresses solder joints. Period. Repeated stress
eventually causes strain (damage). Period.

In a former life I was an engineer in Packaging Assurance at a major U.S.
business machine company. Our life projection testing included thermal cycling
in the range 0C-100C specifically because thermal cycling produces stress and
stress precipitates strain ... i.e. component failure.

So exposing e.g. your laptop to thermal cycling - be that room temp. -> hot car
-> room temp. or room temp -> cold car -> room temp - is decidedly a Bad
Thing. Maintaining your electronics at a *constant* temperature during its
entire life is impractical but would go a long way toward extending its life.

Then again, who really cares if a laptop dies after only a couple years? Within
that relatively short period of time it is superceeded, at least twice, by
newer-faster-better.

So says this guy, who still uses a PC-AT, a vintage 1993 80486-20 laptop, and a
vintage 1998 Pentium II-350 desktop PC.
 
A

Al

Jan 1, 1970
0
Michael said:
Al wrote:
(snip)


You make an excellent point, Al, that nobody else here brought up (as far as
I've read). Thermal cycling stresses solder joints. Period. Repeated
stress
eventually causes strain (damage). Period.

In a former life I was an engineer in Packaging Assurance at a major U.S.
business machine company. Our life projection testing included thermal
cycling
in the range 0C-100C specifically because thermal cycling produces stress and
stress precipitates strain ... i.e. component failure.

So exposing e.g. your laptop to thermal cycling - be that room temp. -> hot
car
-> room temp. or room temp -> cold car -> room temp - is decidedly a Bad
Thing. Maintaining your electronics at a *constant* temperature during its
entire life is impractical but would go a long way toward extending its life.

Then again, who really cares if a laptop dies after only a couple years?
Within
that relatively short period of time it is superceeded, at least twice, by
newer-faster-better.

So says this guy, who still uses a PC-AT, a vintage 1993 80486-20 laptop, and
a
vintage 1998 Pentium II-350 desktop PC.

And I did component failure analysis at a major defense contractor. I've
seen it too many times. And another one was tin whiskers between solder
joints. ;-) Can't wait to see what happens with the new lead free
solders. It'll be a bonanza for us failure analysts.

Al
 
P

PeterD

Jan 1, 1970
0
And I did component failure analysis at a major defense contractor. I've
seen it too many times. And another one was tin whiskers between solder
joints. ;-) Can't wait to see what happens with the new lead free
solders. It'll be a bonanza for us failure analysts.

Al

RoHS solder has already shown itself to be substandard in this
respect, and we'll be seeing lots of these failures as the standard
becomes the rule in the rest of the world. Course, Europe will lead
the way in broken electronics gear!

Now that was done to reduce 'hazardous' materials in the disposal
chain. Wait... So now they throw away *more* stuff because it breaks
more quickly? That's efficiency?
 
C

Chris Jones

Jan 1, 1970
0
PeterD said:
RoHS solder has already shown itself to be substandard in this
respect, and we'll be seeing lots of these failures as the standard
becomes the rule in the rest of the world. Course, Europe will lead
the way in broken electronics gear!

Now that was done to reduce 'hazardous' materials in the disposal
chain. Wait... So now they throw away *more* stuff because it breaks
more quickly? That's efficiency?

I'd also like to know if "tin pest" has started happening. I guess the
first place to check would be some cold country because it's supposed to
happen below 13 degrees C.

Chris
 
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