Car Alternator as Human Powered Generator

[Rich.Andrews]

That moving diagram is wrong. An engine like that wouldn't run unless
there is a supercharger on it providing greater than atmoshperic
pressure in the crankcase. The primary inlet should be closed by some
means as the piston starts to descend.

You are correct. But since every Detroit Diesel engine has a supercharger
aka blower, that resolves that issue.

r

 

[R. Steve Walz]

The valves on a two stroke angine are not allways controlled by the
crankshaft. They are in some engines but in some engines the valves are
opened and closed as the piston moved past an opening in the side of the
cylinder. They tend not to be called "valves" but are more normally known as
"ports" but the job they do is to allow fuel air mix into the combustion
chamber and to allow burnt gases out of the exhaust. Because the opening and
closing of these "valves" is related to piston, not crankshaft, the engine
doesn't mind which way it goes and it has to be started in the right
direction.

 

[Roger Gt]

If the Ale is served in "Pints" and drawn from a Hogs head, any
measure will do!

: I assume you use the SFF system of units Stone-Furlong-
Fortnight which
: is quite legitimate.
: Don Kelly
: [email protected]
: remove the urine to answer

 

[Rich Grise]

Scott Wiper wrote:

[something about stepper motors]

Point taken... They are just to low current.

But back to the vertical areofoils on a rotating frame. These can generate
several horse power with wind from any direction and should be governed
because they can get up to very high speeds.

This type of windmill acts like heleicopter rotors blades when the pitch
them for auto rotation when they stop the engine or it fails. In this case
they are vertical and pitched to rotate in a circle even in light winds.

I've been poking around google, with both windmill and alternator in mind.
I'm pretty much convinced that if/when I build a windmill, it'll be that
"Savonius" type: http://home.messiah.edu/~jebeneze/WindEnergy/WindEnergy.htm
is only one example.

But I've done a complete flip-flop as to my recommendation to use a car
alternator. I'm now convinced a car alternator is definitely not the way
to go, other than maybe proof-of-concept. They're terribly inefficient
(60%).
About the only thing going for them is cheap. But if I had no choice but to
pump a bicycle (or equiv) to, say, surf the net, I'd pay a little extra for
the best efficiency I could get. And I'd get the kind where you kick back.
"Recumbent," I think is the word. And add some kind of flywheel, so you
could catch your breath every now and then.

And yes, I think permanent magnets might almost be a no-brainer there.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

I assume you use the SFF system of units Stone-Furlong- Fortnight which
is quite legitimate.
Don Kelly
[email protected]
remove the urine to answer

Ah-hA! Gotcha! It's just under an eighth. (see my other post)



Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich.Andrews]

------------
Oh, so it is ported just like a 2-stroke motorcycle engine? Wow, how
do you get it to diesel with so much leakage??

-Steve

What leakage?

If you are referring to blowby, there isn't a lot else it wouldn't run
very well, if at all.

How many rings can you count in this picture?

http://www.tejascoach.com/Images/SMpistonliner.JPG
the text to go with the picture is revealing as well.

http://www.tejascoach.com/ddcoil.html

Allegedly the most powerful engine in the world....and it is a 2 cycle
engine as well. http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/

I wonder what they use to torque the heads down with given the size of the
head studs.

How many rings does each piston have? Looks like 5 to me.

r

 

[Rich Grise]

You are correct. But since every Detroit Diesel engine has a supercharger
aka blower, that resolves that issue.

Well, the presence of a blower would make it a little hard to run it
backwards, wouldn't it? It'd make it a sucker, as it were.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Mjolinor]

Well, the presence of a blower would make it a little hard to run it
backwards, wouldn't it? It'd make it a sucker, as it were.

If it were a crank driven supercharger it would but if it were a turbo
charger it wouldn't I've never seen one of these "American" engines so I
don't know what they have.

 

[Rich.Andrews]

Well, the presence of a blower would make it a little hard to run it
backwards, wouldn't it? It'd make it a sucker, as it were.

Cheers!
Rich

Suck or blow, it is all the same as it is just a matter of perspective.
As far as the engine is concerned, as long as the exhaust gases leave the
cylinder, it will happily run.

r

 

[Rich.Andrews]

If it were a crank driven supercharger it would but if it were a turbo
charger it wouldn't I've never seen one of these "American" engines so I
don't know what they have.

Found this website.

http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Archive/2004_2/12005.asp

"Davoe asked for information on can a diesal start in reverse?
The question
On the w/end I went to go up a short steep rock formation without enough
momentum (high range as well) and the old girl started choking I waited
for it to stall but I was to slow on the brakes and it rolled back a
couple of chugs which surprised me as usually the compression holds it.
Any way I braked and clutched and the motor was firing and not sounding
right high rpm and generally sounding different so I turned it off and
restarted and made the obsticle ok. I didnt think modern motors (2h
modern?) would start in reverse is it possible?

Reply 1 of 7 posted 13 Apr 2004

Member -Bob & Lex (Sydney) replied to the question

Yes it's possible or you could'nt do a hill start in reverse as I was
show'n at driver training. FollowUp 1 of 3 posted 13 Apr 2004
Goran posted this followup
You are kidding, right? When you do a hill start your motor is still
running in the same direction forward or reverse. You transmision decides
the rest. Bloke above is saying his motor fired up bacwards( wrong
direction). I don't know if it is possible with modern motors. FollowUp 2
of 3 posted 13 Apr 2004 Wayne (NSW) posted this followup
Bob, The way I read the question is, Will a diesel start and run in the
opposite direction . The motor can sometimes run backwards, exhaust out
the snorkel and air up the exhaust. Wayne FollowUp 3 of 3 posted 13 Apr
2004 Member -Bob & Lex (Sydney) posted this followup
looks like I read the question wrong.
Reply 2 of 7 posted 13 Apr 2004

Wayne (NSW) replied to the question

Davoe, Yes they can start and run in reverse. Black smoke comes out of the
snorkel and air is sucked up the exhaust pipe. If the motor does not run
for long than I don't think any damage was done. It happened to a mate of
mine a long time ago doing the same type of rock climbing. I don't know if
you would call a 2H a motor, but it is almost bullet proof. Wayne Reply 3
of 7 posted 13 Apr 2004

Willem replied to the question

A long time ago on a construction site we were running one of those Euclid
Scraper Machines. I could be wrong but I think that they were two stroke
diesels. Stalled the machine on a steep slope and released the clutch as
it ran backwards and it fired up in reverse. Then we had 6 gears in
reverse and one forward. Quite funny. Had to crawl up to the top of the
incline and then shut everything down and start again. FollowUp 1 of 1
posted 13 Apr 2004 Truckster (Vic) posted this followup
Yup 2 strokes were very famous for it back in the 70's and early 80s...


r

 

[Don Kelly]

I think pints and hogsheads as well as ,hands, firkins etc, fit welll in the
SFF system. In any case a pint of ale sounds a lot better than 568ml (550
in the US -even worse and weaker)

 

[Mjolinor]

In any case a pint of ale sounds a lot better than 568ml (550

in the US -even worse and weaker)

Don't forget "cold"

 

[Robin]

Many thanks to all for the input, let me respond to a few of the
suggestions:

- Solar/Wind Power: Is great, we have a wind generator but every
summer there is a period of about three months of solid rain/fog when
there is no wind or sun.

- Methane/dung: This would be great not only for electricity but
cooking, light, etc. I have heard it is not possible to do this at
altitudes over 3000m, but if you know a way please tell me.

I think I am going to look into something a bit smaller than a
generator. If anyone knows a good motor or generator available on
line could you send me a link.

Thanks again,
Robin

 

[Jon Elson]

nope, it is 4 valves/cylinder, with roller tappet cam followers. The
airflow
will be backwards, and the Roots blower will become an exhaust extractor,
instead of an intake blower. Pretty hard on all the components. Maybe
the worst
is the engine sucking years of crud from the exhaust system into the
cylinders.

Leaf valves would be pretty amazing on a Diesel engine! I can't imagine how
you could make those survive Diesel-cycle pressures and temperatures.

Jon

 

[BlackWater]

That one went over my head

Nothing wrong with "cubic meters" - but
there's no such thing as a "square acre"
because they're already defined as an
area unit. I suppose a "square acre"
would be a volume unit.

 

[BlackWater]

A GM alternator doesn't either, to get it started, then it requires a
minimum load, or it goes over-voltage. GM calls that load "daylight
headlights" ;-)

If you put a little slice of hard iron in
there, it will retain a little magnetism.
Then the alternator can "bootstrap" itself
instead of requiring a battery.

For the battery-charging trick, the output voltage
of the alternator isn't very important (so long as
it's greater than the battery). The battery itself
is a "load" too, which holds down the voltage. So,
it would NOT be safe to run the electronics directly
from the alternator unless there's a significant
load of some kind in-between, lest your 12-volt
equipment have to endure a 50-volt supply.

Of course, the NEW alternators are something like
48 volts or more ... though most will have a seperate
12-volt plug to power the usual equipment. Higher-
voltage means less copper wire and smaller starter
motors. Might be better for 'hybrids' too.

As for powering the aforementioned radio equipment,
an ox would be OK. It is also possible to fabricate
a cheapo steam engine from a dead 4-cycle motorcycle
or 'lawnmower' engine and then use dried manure to
power it. Windmills can work - IF you're in a place
with fairly constant wind - and they're cheap and
simple to build. If there's a stream nearby, some
kind of water-wheel might power an alternator.

In any event, if you're out in the boondocks of a
2nd or 3rd world country, the "Keep it simple" and
"Use what you've got" principle is very important.

 

[Jim Thompson]

If you put a little slice of hard iron in
there, it will retain a little magnetism.
Then the alternator can "bootstrap" itself
instead of requiring a battery.

The GM alternator has a mildly magnetized rotor.

For the battery-charging trick, the output voltage
of the alternator isn't very important (so long as
it's greater than the battery).

An alternator is a CURRENT SOURCE.

The battery itself
is a "load" too, which holds down the voltage.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing ;-)

So,
it would NOT be safe to run the electronics directly
from the alternator unless there's a significant
load of some kind in-between, lest your 12-volt
equipment have to endure a 50-volt supply.

Of course, the NEW alternators are something like
48 volts or more ... though most will have a seperate
12-volt plug to power the usual equipment. Higher-
voltage means less copper wire and smaller starter
motors. Might be better for 'hybrids' too.

As for powering the aforementioned radio equipment,
an ox would be OK. It is also possible to fabricate
a cheapo steam engine from a dead 4-cycle motorcycle
or 'lawnmower' engine and then use dried manure to
power it. Windmills can work - IF you're in a place
with fairly constant wind - and they're cheap and
simple to build. If there's a stream nearby, some
kind of water-wheel might power an alternator.

In any event, if you're out in the boondocks of a
2nd or 3rd world country, the "Keep it simple" and
"Use what you've got" principle is very important.

...Jim Thompson

 

[Mjolinor]

Nothing wrong with "cubic meters" - but
there's no such thing as a "square acre"
because they're already defined as an
area unit. I suppose a "square acre"
would be a volume unit.

A tad large I suspect. I would like 0.00000000001 square acres of gloss
please to paint my windowsill.

 

[Roger Gt]

:
: : >
: > >: > >> X-No-Archive: yes
: > >> A prime example of true British Thinking!
: > >> Cubic meters? How about cubic "cubits?"
: > >
: > >That one went over my head
: >
: > Nothing wrong with "cubic meters" - but
: > there's no such thing as a "square acre"
: > because they're already defined as an
: > area unit. I suppose a "square acre"
: > would be a volume unit.
: >
:
: A tad large I suspect. I would like 0.00000000001 square acres
of gloss
: please to paint my windowsill.
:
Problem solved, A Nanoacre is a standard measure in semiconductor
real-estate. One billionth the size!

 

[Rich Grise]

Many thanks to all for the input, let me respond to a few of the
suggestions:

- Solar/Wind Power: Is great, we have a wind generator but every
summer there is a period of about three months of solid rain/fog when
there is no wind or sun.

Water wheels on the rain gutters. The higher your funnel, the more work
you can get out of it.

- Methane/dung: This would be great not only for electricity but
cooking, light, etc. I have heard it is not possible to do this at
altitudes over 3000m, but if you know a way please tell me.

I'd think for this you'd need a substantial capital investment
in cesspits and collection systems and stuff. _I_ wouldn't put
money into it!

Good Luck!
Rich