# charging one battery from another (using a charge controller, natch)

W

#### [email protected]

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm thinking about the simple scheme of charging a portable device's
rechargeable internal battery from an external battery (which should
have a little higher voltage, obviously). The portable device should
have an internal charge controller to protect its battery and manage
the charging.

Find a suitable battery or stack of cells, and plug it in. Simple.

Using AA cells in an product like Belkin's iPod charger is an
example.
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F8E464-Backup-Battery-Pack/dp/B00009KAPW
Recharging your cell phone from your car's 12V battery could be an
example. Emergency power for a cell phone would be an example.
Instances of externally powering the dead device, without
significantly charging its battery, would be interesting as well.

I'm looking for specific instances of products, or of people doing
this
themselves and making the suggestion to others. One caveat, these
instances have to be during the 1990s or before. Sorry! That
rules out Belkin and their AA-cell holder, since Apple introduced the
iPod in 2002 and they brought out their product sometime later.

Thanks, Win.

A

#### [email protected]

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm thinking about the simple scheme of charging a portable device's
rechargeable internal battery from an external battery (which should
have a little higher voltage, obviously). The portable device should
have an internal charge controller to protect its battery and manage
the charging.

Find a suitable battery or stack of cells, and plug it in. Simple.

Using AA cells in an product like Belkin's iPod charger is an
example.
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F8E464-Backup-Battery-Pack/dp/B00009KAPW
Recharging your cell phone from your car's 12V battery could be an
example. Emergency power for a cell phone would be an example.
Instances of externally powering the dead device, without
significantly charging its battery, would be interesting as well.

I'm looking for specific instances of products, or of people doing
this
themselves and making the suggestion to others. One caveat, these
instances have to be during the 1990s or before. Sorry! That
rules out Belkin and their AA-cell holder, since Apple introduced the
iPod in 2002 and they brought out their product sometime later.

Thanks, Win.

I believe those miniature R/C racing cars used this approach. You
know, those 1 inch long cars?
I know R/C electric helicopters use this approach as well.
I suspect it started some time in the 90s.

F

#### Fred Bartoli

Jan 1, 1970
0
[email protected] a écrit :
I'm thinking about the simple scheme of charging a portable device's
rechargeable internal battery from an external battery (which should
have a little higher voltage, obviously). The portable device should
have an internal charge controller to protect its battery and manage
the charging.

Find a suitable battery or stack of cells, and plug it in. Simple.

Using AA cells in an product like Belkin's iPod charger is an
example.
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F8E464-Backup-Battery-Pack/dp/B00009KAPW
Recharging your cell phone from your car's 12V battery could be an
example. Emergency power for a cell phone would be an example.
Instances of externally powering the dead device, without
significantly charging its battery, would be interesting as well.

I'm looking for specific instances of products, or of people doing
this
themselves and making the suggestion to others. One caveat, these
instances have to be during the 1990s or before. Sorry! That
rules out Belkin and their AA-cell holder, since Apple introduced the
iPod in 2002 and they brought out their product sometime later.

Thanks, Win.

Electric RC racing cars do this all the time from car batteries.
Remember this from when I was a teen (end of 70s).

J

#### James Arthur

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm thinking about the simple scheme of charging a portable device's
rechargeable internal battery from an external battery (which should
have a little higher voltage, obviously). The portable device should
have an internal charge controller to protect its battery and manage
the charging.

Find a suitable battery or stack of cells, and plug it in. Simple.

Using AA cells in an product like Belkin's iPod charger is an
example.
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F8E464-Backup-Battery-Pack/dp/B00009KAPW
Recharging your cell phone from your car's 12V battery could be an
example. Emergency power for a cell phone would be an example.
Instances of externally powering the dead device, without
significantly charging its battery, would be interesting as well.

I'm looking for specific instances of products, or of people doing
this
themselves and making the suggestion to others. One caveat, these
instances have to be during the 1990s or before. Sorry! That
rules out Belkin and their AA-cell holder, since Apple introduced the
iPod in 2002 and they brought out their product sometime later.

Thanks, Win.

Here are two leads--both unsure--for you:

1) I got an Acon "Power Runner" that fits this description from a
swapmeet, but when was it made? Hmmm. Let's take a peek inside.
[fetch, apply implements of destruction] No obvious date codes,
except some on a Philips LM358D which I can't interpret. Hmmm...
aha!, from an obscure page on their website: it was designed in 2001.
Dang.

2) Radio Shack had universal power gizmo that I nearly got on close-
out several years ago. I don't remember what they called it.

It could use either wall-power or d.c. in, and held 4xAA cells,
IIRC. It could charge those 4xAAs from external a.c. or d.c. power,
and could supply an external device with a switchable/selectable
voltage from, as I understood it, any of the three power sources
(i.e., DC-DC, AC-DC, or battery-to-DC). Its literature suggested it
as useful to recharge other portable, d.c.-input devices.

I picked it up and put it down a few times, considered, then
ultimately left it. Since this was at least 4-5 years ago, and on
close-out, it might have been introduced within your timeframe. Maybe
they have a manual in their archives?

Best,
James Arthur

W

#### Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
James said:
winfield said:
I'm thinking about the simple scheme of charging a portable device's
rechargeable internal battery from an external battery (which should
have a little higher voltage, obviously). The portable device should
have an internal charge controller to protect its battery and manage
the charging.

Here are two leads--both unsure--for you:

1) I got an Acon "Power Runner" that fits this description from a
swapmeet, but when was it made? Hmmm. Let's take a peek inside.
[fetch, apply implements of destruction] No obvious date codes,
except some on a Philips LM358D which I can't interpret. Hmmm...
aha!, from an obscure page on their website: it was designed in 2001.
Dang.
Hahaha!

2) Radio Shack had universal power gizmo that I nearly got on
close-out several years ago. I don't remember what they called it.

It could use either wall-power or d.c. in, and held 4xAA cells,
IIRC. It could charge those 4xAAs from external a.c. or d.c. power,
and could supply an external device with a switchable/selectable
voltage from, as I understood it, any of the three power sources
(i.e., DC-DC, AC-DC, or battery-to-DC). Its literature suggested
it as useful to recharge other portable, d.c.-input devices.

I picked it up and put it down a few times, considered, then
ultimately left it. Since this was at least 4-5 years ago, and on
close-out, it might have been introduced within your timeframe.
Maybe they have a manual in their archives?

Nice. Did it have some type of current-limiting resistor or some
other way to control the charging from the external power source?

W

#### Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
I believe those miniature R/C racing cars used this approach.
You know, those 1 inch long cars?
I know R/C electric helicopters use this approach as well.
I suspect it started some time in the 90s.

Ah, but did the miniature RC cars contain a built-in
current-limiting resistor or some other way to control
the charging from the external battery?

P

#### Phil Hobbs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Winfield said:
Ah, but did the miniature RC cars contain a built-in
current-limiting resistor or some other way to control
the charging from the external battery?
ZipZaps, they're called. Fun while they last (about 3 days).

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

J

#### James Arthur

Jan 1, 1970
0
Here are two leads--both unsure--for you:
1) I got an Acon "Power Runner" that fits this description from a
swapmeet, but when was it made? Hmmm. Let's take a peek inside.
[fetch, apply implements of destruction] No obvious date codes,
except some on a Philips LM358D which I can't interpret. Hmmm...
aha!, from an obscure page on their website: it was designed in 2001.
Dang.
Hahaha!

2) Radio Shack had universal power gizmo that I nearly got on
close-out several years ago. I don't remember what they called it.
It could use either wall-power or d.c. in, and held 4xAA cells,
IIRC. It could charge those 4xAAs from external a.c. or d.c. power,
and could supply an external device with a switchable/selectable
voltage from, as I understood it, any of the three power sources
(i.e., DC-DC, AC-DC, or battery-to-DC). Its literature suggested
it as useful to recharge other portable, d.c.-input devices.
I picked it up and put it down a few times, considered, then
ultimately left it. Since this was at least 4-5 years ago, and on
close-out, it might have been introduced within your timeframe.
Maybe they have a manual in their archives?

Nice. Did it have some type of current-limiting resistor or some
other way to control the charging from the external power source?

Switchers all around, AFAICT. It was light, and compact--not
noticably larger than typical 4xAA chargers.

manuals--with parts lists and schematics--for all their stuff. Very
nice. That site would be an easy place to search for info., if it
still existed. I don't know if it does. You could also order from
any store for just a few dollars, and they'd mail it to your home.
Here, though, you'd first have to know what manual to order!

Best regards,
James Arthur

J

#### James Arthur

Jan 1, 1970
0
Switchers all around, AFAICT. It was light, and compact--not
noticably larger than typical 4xAA chargers.

Shack device had a controller to manage charging of its own, local
rechargeable cells (that is, 4xAA cells installed by the user for
charging).

The device could also use the 4xAA user-installed cells--
rechargeable or not--as a power source, and produce selectable
voltages to drive external devices. I assume this output was a
voltage-source, albeit likely current-limited for safety-- and that
any external device would be responsible for managing its own re-
charging.

Hope that clarifies it.

James

R

#### Robert Latest

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm thinking about the simple scheme of charging a portable device's
rechargeable internal battery from an external battery (which should
have a little higher voltage, obviously). The portable device should
have an internal charge controller to protect its battery and manage
the charging.

This device then wopuldn't be anything but a battery pack with some charge
control circuitry and a DC output, right? A portable wall wart, sort of, for
what is a mobile's "charger" except a wall wart?

robert

R

#### Robert Latest

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm looking for specific instances of products, or of people doing
this
themselves and making the suggestion to others. One caveat, these
instances have to be during the 1990s or before.

Hmmm. What could this mean? OK, here goes: Someone (A) files a patent on
such a device in 1990. More recently, someone else (B) starts selling a
similar contraption. A sues B for patent violation. B is now trying to find
prior (to 1990) art in order to render A's patent void.

So you're working for B, right?

What constitutes prior art, anyway? An article in a hobby electronics
magazine? One of those really productive design brainstorming threads in
S.E.D.?

robert

R

#### Robert Latest

Jan 1, 1970
0
Winfield said:
Nice. Did it have some type of current-limiting resistor or some
other way to control the charging from the external power source?

Why don't you post the number of the patent being contested? ;-)

robert

F

#### Fred Bloggs

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm looking for specific instances of products, or of people doing
this
themselves and making the suggestion to others. One caveat, these
instances have to be during the 1990s or before. Sorry! That
rules out Belkin and their AA-cell holder, since Apple introduced the
iPod in 2002 and they brought out their product sometime later.

Thanks, Win.

If it's "prior art" you're looking for then you should just come out and
say so instead of being deceitful and manipulative like this...

R

#### Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
That looks like control circuitry in the external
battery-charging station, right? I'm looking for
control circuitry in the device being charged.

Awwww. For a minute there, I was so proud of myself....

Thanks!
RIch

J

#### Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert said:
Hmmm. What could this mean? OK, here goes: Someone (A) files a patent on
such a device in 1990. More recently, someone else (B) starts selling a
similar contraption. A sues B for patent violation. B is now trying to find
prior (to 1990) art in order to render A's patent void.

And then A's investors blow a gasket and begin to sue A ...

So you're working for B, right?

What constitutes prior art, anyway? An article in a hobby electronics
magazine? One of those really productive design brainstorming threads in
S.E.D.?

Either one should seriously shake a patent claim at the roots. But
imagine what would happen if you are on the witness stand and asked how
you know for sure. Then you quietly pull out a rechargeable flashlight
or something like that. "Grandpa used this in his DeSoto all the time.
He passed away in 1980." Then you can probably see harried folks
whipping out their cell phones and storm out the court room.

Usually stuff like this becomes so obvious during discovery that it is
settled before heading too far towards a major embarrassment in court.

J

#### James Arthur

Jan 1, 1970
0
And then A's investors blow a gasket and begin to sue A ...

Either one should seriously shake a patent claim at the roots. But
imagine what would happen if you are on the witness stand and asked how
you know for sure. Then you quietly pull out a rechargeable flashlight
or something like that. "Grandpa used this in his DeSoto all the time.
He passed away in 1980." Then you can probably see harried folks
whipping out their cell phones and storm out the court room.

Usually stuff like this becomes so obvious during discovery that it is
settled before heading too far towards a major embarrassment in court.

Another possibility: if you suspect a patent is invalid, you can
request a re-examination and submit your prior art references. You
have to pay the ~$2K re-examination fee, but it could be worth it, circumstances depending. This process can limit or invalidate a patent entirely, with no court battles required, as long as you can prove your point. Best, James Arthur J #### Joerg Jan 1, 1970 0 James said: Another possibility: if you suspect a patent is invalid, you can request a re-examination and submit your prior art references. You have to pay the ~$2K re-examination fee, but it could be worth it,
circumstances depending. This process can limit or invalidate a
patent entirely, with no court battles required, as long as you can

Considering that you could spend that on a lawyer in under two days,
certainly.

A

#### [email protected]

Jan 1, 1970
0
If it's "prior art" you're looking for then you should just come out and
say so instead of being deceitful and manipulative like this...

If we all assume it's a prior art search, how is it hidden?

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