Chinese selling counterfeit parts to the US military

[asdf]

http://defensetech.org/2011/11/08/counterfeit-parts-found-on-new-p-8-
posiedons/

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

http://defensetech.org/2011/11/08/counterfeit-parts-found-on-new-p-8-
posiedons/

I wasn't aware of the US miltary buying any parts from China.

More like American Military (sub) contractors using dodgy American
middlemen because of incredibly antiquated designs, who then buy
dubious obsolete, used or otherwise off-spec stuff marked-to-order
from Chinese basement operations who give them exactly what they ask
for.

 

[petrus bitbyter]

http://defensetech.org/2011/11/08/counterfeit-parts-found-on-new-p-8-
posiedons/

Seems the Chineese are taking over the US not by military force but by
economic. US depends on Chinese loans for a great part and now even become
depending on electronics even for the military. Where are all those mil.
specs. that made life difficult for western manufacturers? No need to check
when the parts come from China? Not excluding China for delivering parts for
months or even years? No punishment or sanctions at all?

petrus bitbyter

 

[holyhigh]

I wasn't aware of the US miltary buying any parts from China.

More like American Military (sub) contractors using dodgy American
middlemen because of incredibly antiquated designs, who then buy
dubious obsolete, used or otherwise off-spec stuff marked-to-order
from Chinese basement operations who give them exactly what they ask
for.

true, and the parts are supose to have traceability and pass qualification
and QA at several levels.....

 

[Mike]

news:[email protected]...

true, and the parts are supose to have traceability and pass
qualification and QA at several levels.....

That might depend on the service and how the contracts are written. If
the vendor is responsible for the inspection, it might not happen.

Here's a recent article on how the Missile Defense Agency is being used
as a model to eliminate counterfeit parts.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
MDA a Model for Avoiding Counterfeit Parts

Lawmakers are turning to the Missile Defense Agency (MDA) as a possible
model for how the U.S. Defense Department can stop counterfeit electronic
parts from entering the defense supply chain.

Soon after he took over MDA in 2008, O'Reilly looked into the origin of
counterfeit parts after they were found in a missile defense telemetry
system.

"We found that all counterfeit parts were coming from independent
distributors," O'Reilly said.

According to O'Reilly, MDA was unable to certify 61 percent of the
independent distributors researched. O'Reilly said these distributors
were deemed moderate to high risk because they could not produce a
sufficient paper trail for the origins of their parts.

The Senate Armed Services Committee recently completed its own
investigation, which showed most of the counterfeit electronics that make
their way into U.S. military systems originate in China.

After making this discovery, the MDA director signed a ban in 2009 that
prohibited all contractors from going to independent distributors without
first coming to MDA for permission. O'Reilly said the best way to
eliminate counterfeit parts is to eliminate their source, and MDA does
this by limiting the use of independent parts distributors.

Contractors working with MDA are limited to buying parts from the
original manufacturer or authorized distributors. If this isn't an
option, the contractor has to prove to MDA why it needs to go to an
independent distributor and must also agree to rigorously test those
parts.

[...]

O'Reilly told them it does not matter if a contract is cost-plus or
fixed-price if it includes a clause that makes it clear the contractor
has to pick up replacement costs if he buys parts from an unauthorized
distributor.

Levin said the MDA's model should be followed by the military services
and the Defense Department.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=8183313

Mike

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

true, and the parts are supose to have traceability and pass qualification
and QA at several levels.....

That's the thing- there are people who d*mn well should know better
doing seriously irresponsible, likely illegal and certainly
non-conforming things at several stages. For money.

They just sent a FL woman to jail for a few years for doing this sort
of thing- they were selling remarked crap to other middemen who were
not asking enough questions and thence through more stages.

You can buy pretty much whatever you need in China in the way of
electronics, just have to be rather careful who you deal with. Out of
1,000 small-scale vendors there are bound to be some that specialize
or dabble in this sort of thing.

 

[TTman]

I wasn't aware of the US miltary buying any parts from China.

More like American Military (sub) contractors using dodgy American
middlemen because of incredibly antiquated designs, who then buy
dubious obsolete, used or otherwise off-spec stuff marked-to-order
from Chinese basement operations who give them exactly what they ask
for.

That happens in the UK too, to the unwary. Sometimes it's a legit deal,
sometimes it's a fake..
The trick is to establish a good relationship with a Chinese supplier....
Ad hoc = disaster. !!

 

[Bob Quintal]

Where are all those mil. specs. that made life difficult for
western manufacturers? No need to check when the parts come from
China? Not excluding China for delivering parts for months or even
years? No punishment or sanctions at all?

petrus bitbyter

The MIL-SPECs are still there. But many MIL-SPEC transistors and ICs
are no longer being manufactured in the USA so the companies who need
some old parts shop on EBay or ask around, Somebody will answer "I
got 50 of what you want in the basement." and negociate a sale.

But what gets delivered is scrap pulled off of pcboards, with old
part number sanded off and a new part number pretending to be
somebody else's higher quality product.

 

[John S]

The MIL-SPECs are still there. But many MIL-SPEC transistors and ICs
are no longer being manufactured in the USA so the companies who need
some old parts shop on EBay or ask around, Somebody will answer "I
got 50 of what you want in the basement." and negociate a sale.

But what gets delivered is scrap pulled off of pcboards, with old
part number sanded off and a new part number pretending to be
somebody else's higher quality product.

You would not be able to spot a transistor removed from a PCB?

 

[[email protected]]

news:[email protected]...

true, and the parts are supose to have traceability and pass
qualification and QA at several levels.....

That might depend on the service and how the contracts are written. If
the vendor is responsible for the inspection, it might not happen.

Here's a recent article on how the Missile Defense Agency is being used
as a model to eliminate counterfeit parts.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
MDA a Model for Avoiding Counterfeit Parts

Lawmakers are turning to the Missile Defense Agency (MDA) as a possible
model for how the U.S. Defense Department can stop counterfeit electronic
parts from entering the defense supply chain.

Soon after he took over MDA in 2008, O'Reilly looked into the origin of
counterfeit parts after they were found in a missile defense telemetry
system.

"We found that all counterfeit parts were coming from independent
distributors," O'Reilly said.

According to O'Reilly, MDA was unable to certify 61 percent of the
independent distributors researched. O'Reilly said these distributors
were deemed moderate to high risk because they could not produce a
sufficient paper trail for the origins of their parts.

The Senate Armed Services Committee recently completed its own
investigation, which showed most of the counterfeit electronics that make
their way into U.S. military systems originate in China.

After making this discovery, the MDA director signed a ban in 2009 that
prohibited all contractors from going to independent distributors without
first coming to MDA for permission. O'Reilly said the best way to
eliminate counterfeit parts is to eliminate their source, and MDA does
this by limiting the use of independent parts distributors.

Contractors working with MDA are limited to buying parts from the
original manufacturer or authorized distributors. If this isn't an
option, the contractor has to prove to MDA why it needs to go to an
independent distributor and must also agree to rigorously test those
parts.

[...]

O'Reilly told them it does not matter if a contract is cost-plus or
fixed-price if it includes a clause that makes it clear the contractor
has to pick up replacement costs if he buys parts from an unauthorized
distributor.

Levin said the MDA's model should be followed by the military services
and the Defense Department.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=8183313

Those solutions are obvious. Why is the DOD allowing *any* contractor to buy
floor sweepings?

 

[Bob Quintal]

You would not be able to spot a transistor removed from a PCB?

These counterfeiters go to a lot of effort to make the devices look
new.