# CNC video display problem: DFP video cable extension

E

#### Existential Angst

Jan 1, 1970
0
Awl --

I had to relocate the pendant on a Haas GR-510 cnc gantry mill, which
required extending 4 cables, one of them a 26-pin DFP cable, an apparently
old-style video cable.
A pic of the control display is here:
http://smackaay.com/2010/12/22/the-new-haas-mill-features/

The cable I purchased is here, notably thicker (and longer -- 35 ft vs.
10-15 ft) than the original,

and the oem mfr is this company: (the E164618 cable, "power limited circuit
cable", type CL2): http://www.ltkcable.com/en/pc_america.asp

color-bleeding like what you'd see on an old color TV with poor antenna
reception. However, some areas/background colors of the screen are much
better than others. Irksome, but still usable, and the placement of pendant
is more important than the screen quality, so I'll have to deal with it, but
I'm wondering if there is a solution. We seated/re-seated the cable,
reversed ends, ran it away from AC wiring, etc, no real change.

Is this to be expected in simply lengthening a video cable? Does the signal
need boosting? A problem if a booster does not have dfp connectors.
Could shielding be a problem? If so, could I make my own shielding, with
alum foil? Both ends grounded??
Is the cable poss. defective?? I'd think a defective cable would simply
just not work at all!

Also, could I be harming the display? LCD type, it seems.

These cables are hard to find, and the oem mfr hasn't responded, and
probably won't (china). I was hoping for a longer cable from them, or a
female-female adatpter (coupler), and another duplicate cable.

Options? Haas proper appears not to be a useful resource.... they have
difficulty dealing with SIMPLE problems!!

E

#### Existential Angst

Jan 1, 1970
0
Existential Angst said:
Awl --

I had to relocate the pendant on a Haas GR-510 cnc gantry mill, which
required extending 4 cables, one of them a 26-pin DFP cable, an apparently
old-style video cable.
A pic of the control display is here:
http://smackaay.com/2010/12/22/the-new-haas-mill-features/

The cable I purchased is here, notably thicker (and longer -- 35 ft vs.
10-15 ft) than the original,

and the oem mfr is this company: (the E164618 cable, "power limited
circuit cable", type CL2): http://www.ltkcable.com/en/pc_america.asp

color-bleeding like what you'd see on an old color TV with poor antenna
reception. However, some areas/background colors of the screen are much
better than others. Irksome, but still usable, and the placement of
pendant is more important than the screen quality, so I'll have to deal
with it, but I'm wondering if there is a solution. We seated/re-seated
the cable, reversed ends, ran it away from AC wiring, etc, no real change.

Is this to be expected in simply lengthening a video cable? Does the
signal need boosting? A problem if a booster does not have dfp
connectors.
Could shielding be a problem? If so, could I make my own shielding, with
alum foil? Both ends grounded??
Is the cable poss. defective?? I'd think a defective cable would simply
just not work at all!

Also, could I be harming the display? LCD type, it seems.

These cables are hard to find, and the oem mfr hasn't responded, and
probably won't (china). I was hoping for a longer cable from them, or a
female-female adatpter (coupler), and another duplicate cable.

Options? Haas proper appears not to be a useful resource.... they have
difficulty dealing with SIMPLE problems!!

Oh, a male-male DFP cable has "squeeze locks" on the sides, as opposed to
thumb-screw locks.
The pins themselves are not the literal pins you see on a VGA cable, but
rather on the sides of a central block, less risk of bending.
A good pic is here: http://www.amamax.com/6fodfpmice26.html altho that top
tab appears to be some artifact, or just a pc of tape.

Shorter cables are more available, the problem was long cables, or
If I could find a fem-fem adapter, I suppose I could just order another
cable from haas.
Or a male-female cable, to extend the original, rather than replace it.
--
EA

E

#### Existential Angst

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jan Panteltje said:
Is the cable correctly terminated at the end?

Don't know.
Is it driven by the correct impedance?

Don't know.
If the 26 pin cable is just to feed an LCD directly, that will likely not
work due to reflections
and cable capacitance.
The LCD driver needs to be AT the LCD.

There is a mother-type board in the main electric panel, and then there a
board in the pendant/controller (pictured in the mackaay link).
The dfp connects the two boards.

That's all I know. So the new cable (about twice as long and about 4x the
cross-sectional area, for some reason) works, it just doesn't work well.

If impedance is the primary issue, then conceivably even a longer cable by
the same company might prove to be a problem.... altho mebbe less of a
problem.
Christ, even WIRES are turning out to be complicated.....[/QUOTE]

E

#### Existential Angst

Jan 1, 1970
0
John Larkin said:
Show us the mill!

http://www.haascnc.com/mt_spec1.asp?id=GR-510&webID=gantry_vmc

With renishaw probing, programmable coolant, rigid tap, macros, blast air,
21 tool carousel, some other stuff. Custom coolant tank from
ronco-plastics.com, great company.

The pendant/controller you see there on that arm has been moved to the foot
of the machine (toward you), because the machine is next to a wall on that
side.
A bit of a miracle installation. I am already a legend at Haas.... lol

But this cable/screen problem is a bit of a bummer.

V

#### vinny

Jan 1, 1970
0
Existential Angst said:
Awl --

I had to relocate the pendant on a Haas GR-510 cnc gantry mill, which
required extending 4 cables, one of them a 26-pin DFP cable, an apparently
old-style video cable.
A pic of the control display is here:
http://smackaay.com/2010/12/22/the-new-haas-mill-features/

The cable I purchased is here, notably thicker (and longer -- 35 ft vs.
10-15 ft)

35 feet for a video cable? Thats too long. Video cables are short for a
reason.

E

#### Existential Angst

Jan 1, 1970
0
Wild_Bill said:
This post is legible. I dunno WTF you did with EA, but..

Just accommodating reading levels, is all.... lol
It seems Apples use these cables (I never heard of 'em), so you might try
Apple user groups or forums to see what they use that works well.

The 35ft distance isn't trivial.. you may need a wired

The other replies are likely correct that the particular cabling used to
fabricate this cable assembly isn't suited to your purpose.

Many of Arcade's products are typical China/generic quality, and I guess
they thought a long, fat cable was worth $120+. The price was a knee-buckler, but they went down some. And in this situation, would have been worth it, had it worked. As it stands now, it works but irksomely so. I don't know where you'd get the cable you need, but it might be very similar to a VGA monitor cable but with those digital connectors.. OR, your monitor really is digital, and the cable you have is a half-assed attempt at a non-compatible product (sound familiar?). If the folks at Haas haven't been able to tell you what specific type of monitor you have, you probably need to try entering random phone extension numbers when calling. And ask for a pin-out of the connectors. Actually a dicey situation, cuz then it gets back to the local people, a whole hierarchy/turf who's-doin-what who-knows-what issue.... really a pita.... The most practical thing right now, given the scarcity of this cable type, is to finagle one from Haas, and kluge together a female-female coupler via two female circuit board receptacles. I assume those are available, since the boards are made with them, but that might be another needle in a haystack. The other poss. is dfp-dvi conversion, and hope the pin-outs stay consistent. Very enlightening if not sobering thread, appreciate all the input. I have a new respect for g-d WIRES!!!! E #### Existential Angst Jan 1, 1970 0 Existential Angst said: Just accommodating reading levels, is all.... lol The price was a knee-buckler, but they went down some. And in this situation, would have been worth it, had it worked. As it stands now, it works but irksomely so. Actually a dicey situation, cuz then it gets back to the local people, a whole hierarchy/turf who's-doin-what who-knows-what issue.... really a pita.... The most practical thing right now, given the scarcity of this cable type, is to finagle one from Haas, and kluge together a female-female coupler via two female circuit board receptacles. I assume those are available, since the boards are made with them, but that might be another needle in a haystack. The other poss. is dfp-dvi conversion, and hope the pin-outs stay consistent. Very enlightening if not sobering thread, appreciate all the input. I have a new respect for g-d WIRES!!!! I ordered two adapters, DVI (fem) to DFP(26 pin male), which will plug into each circuit board. Then between them I'll run a DVI cable (m to m). We'll see how that works out. Cables arrive in a cupla days. The adapters were hellishly expensive,$42 each, and the 25 ft cable a whole
$10. Just *moving* this effing pendant/controller has so far cost HUNDREDS of dollars,$200+ in cables alone..... goodgawd.....[/QUOTE]

J

#### Jasen Betts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Awl --

I had to relocate the pendant on a Haas GR-510 cnc gantry mill, which
required extending 4 cables, one of them a 26-pin DFP cable, an apparently
old-style video cable.
A pic of the control display is here:
http://smackaay.com/2010/12/22/the-new-haas-mill-features/

The cable I purchased is here, notably thicker (and longer -- 35 ft vs.
10-15 ft) than the original,

and the oem mfr is this company: (the E164618 cable, "power limited circuit
cable", type CL2): http://www.ltkcable.com/en/pc_america.asp

color-bleeding like what you'd see on an old color TV with poor antenna
reception. However, some areas/background colors of the screen are much
better than others. Irksome, but still usable, and the placement of pendant
is more important than the screen quality, so I'll have to deal with it, but
I'm wondering if there is a solution. We seated/re-seated the cable,
reversed ends, ran it away from AC wiring, etc, no real change.

Is this to be expected in simply lengthening a video cable? Does the signal
need boosting? A problem if a booster does not have dfp connectors.
Could shielding be a problem? If so, could I make my own shielding, with
alum foil? Both ends grounded??
Is the cable poss. defective?? I'd think a defective cable would simply
just not work at all!

it sounds like an impedance matching problem, like you'd get if you
tried to run VGA or component video through a ribbon cable, cat5,
(or other inapropriate cable)

extending the original cable with an identical cable it likely to make
the picture no more than twice as bad as the original picture was.

the video degradation you see suggests to me that analogue signale are
being sent over this cable, and the original is not a DFP cable, it
just has DFP connectors on each end.

B

#### Bob La Londe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Existential Angst said:
http://www.haascnc.com/mt_spec1.asp?id=GR-510&webID=gantry_vmc

With renishaw probing, programmable coolant, rigid tap, macros, blast air,
21 tool carousel, some other stuff. Custom coolant tank from
ronco-plastics.com, great company.

The pendant/controller you see there on that arm has been moved to the
foot of the machine (toward you), because the machine is next to a wall on
that side.
A bit of a miracle installation. I am already a legend at Haas.... lol

But this cable/screen problem is a bit of a bummer.

Want to gamble? Shorten the cable to the absolute minimum length by
cutting, individually soldering, and shrink tubing each conductor.

Also, check the gage of the conductors of the new cable. Gage and length
can have a huge effect on low power and/or low gain analog signals.

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