-
Categories
-
Platforms
-
Content
-
Enter to Win a Raspberry Pi 4 built into a compact keyboard! We'll be selecting the winner at the end of this month - click here for more information.
flippineck
- Sep 8, 2013
- 358
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2013
- Messages
- 358
Not much help I suppose but, its mentioned by others here
https://www-elektroda-pl.translate....auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=nui
Seems to be something to do with 'Fellowes patented SafeSense ® technology' which stops the shredder if hands get too close to the paper entry
https://www-elektroda-pl.translate....auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=nui
Seems to be something to do with 'Fellowes patented SafeSense ® technology' which stops the shredder if hands get too close to the paper entry
Last edited:
73's de Edd
- Aug 21, 2015
- 3,622
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2015
- Messages
- 3,622
Sir AR47 . . . . .
If it is as so mentioned before, one might expect that unit to be a cut out relay.
with suspicions that your second photo is showing the spaced out bottom set of terminals to be the coil of a relay and then the top two sets of terminals either being normally closed with no power on the unit or normally closed with no AC power on the unit.
Most likely normally open contacts and closing on power up.
So o o o o o o how about doing a non powered test, so that you can ohm out what the resistance is across the wider apart terminals at the bottom.
A consideration might be to refer to the units other relay and read its coils resistance and compare to the mystery units suspicioned coil terminals.
Then power up the unit and test across that coil in the highest range for voltages expected to be encountered, for both AC and DC to see if any voltage is present.If not you might alternate between switch and function settings to see if coil power then might show up in any or one setting.
Your big RED O might be hiding something but all I can see on the center set of contacts is just a connection to the two yellow ceramic capacitors which makes no sense.
Then look at the very top set of contacts, the top one has a decent current carrying width of connecting foil.
While the bottom contact, connecting foil path is starting out wide but then makes a transition to a lower power handling foil width, as it routes up the board..
If no confirming findings on the above tests , I am thinking of an entirely different function of this unit.
'In that case the first reading taken of the bottom spaced out terminals will be having a high ohms reading, if not being open circuit.
Previously, one might expect 50 ohms on up to hundreds of ohms in accordance to the operating voltage rating of the relay coil.
Then, when you test between each of the sets of the second and third contacts, they will read open circuit.
BUT if you meter from the second set of contacts in choosing one contact, and ohmming to the third set of contacts, one of them will show low ohms and the other one open circuit.
Then swap meter leads to the other terminal of contact set two and then the other contact one contact set will show low ohms continuity to the other of its terminals and open circuit, to the other contact.
Or finally, if you put ohmmeter to one of the wide spaced contacts at the very bottom, the other ohmmeter lead should find that low resistance at one of the 3rd . . . . very top sets of contacts. Of course if then swapping an ohmmeter lead to the other bottom terminal, the other, 3rd . . . . very top sets of contacts opposite contact should show low resistance.
That ends that series of tests.
Finally in looking at all of the units visible solder joints, it is being shiny CHROME CITY.
Until I pick out the very top of your RED O and the Z1 marking and go its left to the Z? until I see an upper area where a wide foil originates and then routes left and then routes down.
Back where that foil originates, am I seeing a large gauge wire that is grayed and is enclosed in a fractured and crystallized solder blob ?
Also the same thing if you go to the good shiny joint just to its left, but find that the next joint to its left grayed out also, with both of then suspect of compromised solder connections.
Or am I just getting an optical collusion ? on those two connections.
STRANGE . . . . when I look at that area . . . . off that LM6805's inside end I only see a single 22gauge wire leaded radial black E-cap ? Where are those heavy leaded components ?
Also when I look at the two YELLOW ceramic caps, are they connecting to two series connected 1 thru 2 meg resistors that then connect to a large gauge YELLOW wire , ground wire, that also has a hidden sides GREEn longitudinal stripe ?
If so, its looking even more like my initially suspicioned mystery item 2.
That's being all from this end.
73's de Edd . . . . .
His request approved, the CNN News photographer quickly used a cell phone to call the local airport to charter a flight. He was told a twin-engine plane would be waiting for him at the airport. Arriving at the airfield, he spotted a plane warming up outside a hanger. He jumped in with his bag, slammed the door shut, and shouted, 'Let's go'. The pilot taxied out, swung the plane Into the wind and took off. Once in the air, the photographer instructed the pilot, 'Fly over the valley and make low passes so I can take pictures of the fires on the hillsides.'
'Why? then asked the pilot. 'Because I'm a photographer for CNN', he responded, 'and I need to get some close up shots.'
The pilot was strangely silent for a moment, Finally he stammered out , 'So, what you're telling me, Is . . . You're NOT my flight instructor?'
.
If it is as so mentioned before, one might expect that unit to be a cut out relay.
with suspicions that your second photo is showing the spaced out bottom set of terminals to be the coil of a relay and then the top two sets of terminals either being normally closed with no power on the unit or normally closed with no AC power on the unit.
Most likely normally open contacts and closing on power up.
So o o o o o o how about doing a non powered test, so that you can ohm out what the resistance is across the wider apart terminals at the bottom.
A consideration might be to refer to the units other relay and read its coils resistance and compare to the mystery units suspicioned coil terminals.
Then power up the unit and test across that coil in the highest range for voltages expected to be encountered, for both AC and DC to see if any voltage is present.If not you might alternate between switch and function settings to see if coil power then might show up in any or one setting.
Your big RED O might be hiding something but all I can see on the center set of contacts is just a connection to the two yellow ceramic capacitors which makes no sense.
Then look at the very top set of contacts, the top one has a decent current carrying width of connecting foil.
While the bottom contact, connecting foil path is starting out wide but then makes a transition to a lower power handling foil width, as it routes up the board..
If no confirming findings on the above tests , I am thinking of an entirely different function of this unit.
'In that case the first reading taken of the bottom spaced out terminals will be having a high ohms reading, if not being open circuit.
Previously, one might expect 50 ohms on up to hundreds of ohms in accordance to the operating voltage rating of the relay coil.
Then, when you test between each of the sets of the second and third contacts, they will read open circuit.
BUT if you meter from the second set of contacts in choosing one contact, and ohmming to the third set of contacts, one of them will show low ohms and the other one open circuit.
Then swap meter leads to the other terminal of contact set two and then the other contact one contact set will show low ohms continuity to the other of its terminals and open circuit, to the other contact.
Or finally, if you put ohmmeter to one of the wide spaced contacts at the very bottom, the other ohmmeter lead should find that low resistance at one of the 3rd . . . . very top sets of contacts. Of course if then swapping an ohmmeter lead to the other bottom terminal, the other, 3rd . . . . very top sets of contacts opposite contact should show low resistance.
That ends that series of tests.
Finally in looking at all of the units visible solder joints, it is being shiny CHROME CITY.
Until I pick out the very top of your RED O and the Z1 marking and go its left to the Z? until I see an upper area where a wide foil originates and then routes left and then routes down.
Back where that foil originates, am I seeing a large gauge wire that is grayed and is enclosed in a fractured and crystallized solder blob ?
Also the same thing if you go to the good shiny joint just to its left, but find that the next joint to its left grayed out also, with both of then suspect of compromised solder connections.
Or am I just getting an optical collusion ? on those two connections.
STRANGE . . . . when I look at that area . . . . off that LM6805's inside end I only see a single 22gauge wire leaded radial black E-cap ? Where are those heavy leaded components ?
Also when I look at the two YELLOW ceramic caps, are they connecting to two series connected 1 thru 2 meg resistors that then connect to a large gauge YELLOW wire , ground wire, that also has a hidden sides GREEn longitudinal stripe ?
If so, its looking even more like my initially suspicioned mystery item 2.
That's being all from this end.
73's de Edd . . . . .
His request approved, the CNN News photographer quickly used a cell phone to call the local airport to charter a flight. He was told a twin-engine plane would be waiting for him at the airport. Arriving at the airfield, he spotted a plane warming up outside a hanger. He jumped in with his bag, slammed the door shut, and shouted, 'Let's go'. The pilot taxied out, swung the plane Into the wind and took off. Once in the air, the photographer instructed the pilot, 'Fly over the valley and make low passes so I can take pictures of the fires on the hillsides.'
'Why? then asked the pilot. 'Because I'm a photographer for CNN', he responded, 'and I need to get some close up shots.'
The pilot was strangely silent for a moment, Finally he stammered out , 'So, what you're telling me, Is . . . You're NOT my flight instructor?'
.
narkeleptk
- Oct 3, 2019
- 74
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2019
- Messages
- 74
What is the designation for it? I see a lot of DC/DC Converters in similar packages.
Last edited:
Thank you ever so much. You cracked it!!! I also liked the joke...(didn't like you adding ten years to my age, though...
)Thank you very much. The info there was priceless. All the best.
73's de Edd
- Aug 21, 2015
- 3,622
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2015
- Messages
- 3,622
Sir "Arthur Richardson" D.O.B. Feb 30, 1957 . . . . .
It was just magic . . .done with numbers . . .on the age change.
Now my response had 3 distinct situations and also some pertinent questions, but with the thanking reference to the Fellowes safety circuit . . .
With you referring to the site with the Fellowes safety circuit . . . .
Your unit must have the internal relay construction and is built, as is being shown below and you disabled one of the coil connections to re enable the shredder with the relay contacts popping to their normal / un powered open contacts state.
If so, do you actually want to disable that safety feature ?.
SUSPICION OF HOW THE SAFETY FEATURE WORKS . . . .
The omnipresent AC power wiring radiation is inductively and electrostatically inducing a 50 / 60 cycle signal into your body mass.
(Try touching the "HOT" tip of a long patch cord from your electric guitar amp, with volume up, and using the black plastic plug end that is unplugged from your guitar. )
I would suspicion that floating chrome slot cover has an electrical wire connection, then routed bottom side.
Then that wire routes to the circuit board to circuitry that is amplifying that feeble AC signal that is created by your coming into contact, and the touching of the chrome slot cover.
With that initially weak 50/60 cycle signal, being amplified greatly, then there is rectification and a resultant dc voltage to feed into a relay driver circuit which overrides its activation.
With loss of any touch, the relay goes back to normal run operation.
Want to investigate the fault in that circuitry ?
73's de Edd . . . . .
On the keyboard of life, ALWAYS keep one finger near the escape key.
.
It was just magic . . .done with numbers . . .on the age change.
Now my response had 3 distinct situations and also some pertinent questions, but with the thanking reference to the Fellowes safety circuit . . .
With you referring to the site with the Fellowes safety circuit . . . .
Your unit must have the internal relay construction and is built, as is being shown below and you disabled one of the coil connections to re enable the shredder with the relay contacts popping to their normal / un powered open contacts state.
If so, do you actually want to disable that safety feature ?.
SUSPICION OF HOW THE SAFETY FEATURE WORKS . . . .
The omnipresent AC power wiring radiation is inductively and electrostatically inducing a 50 / 60 cycle signal into your body mass.
(Try touching the "HOT" tip of a long patch cord from your electric guitar amp, with volume up, and using the black plastic plug end that is unplugged from your guitar. )
I would suspicion that floating chrome slot cover has an electrical wire connection, then routed bottom side.
Then that wire routes to the circuit board to circuitry that is amplifying that feeble AC signal that is created by your coming into contact, and the touching of the chrome slot cover.
With that initially weak 50/60 cycle signal, being amplified greatly, then there is rectification and a resultant dc voltage to feed into a relay driver circuit which overrides its activation.
With loss of any touch, the relay goes back to normal run operation.
Want to investigate the fault in that circuitry ?
73's de Edd . . . . .
On the keyboard of life, ALWAYS keep one finger near the escape key.
.
Thank you very much for the reply. I suspect this "special component" they devised is not very reliable. I assume this as i can not find a manufacturer datasheet of it AND the many "complaints" of its quality (e.g. https://www-elektroda-pl.translate....auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=nui) so i disabled this feature. The slot is not big enough for normal finger. And i placed big sticker saying the feature is off AND only me uses it, every 5 to 10 years…
All the best.
All the best.
flippineck
- Sep 8, 2013
- 358
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2013
- Messages
- 358
Those yellow capacitors across the middle contact.. the board designer seems to have been careful to include a lot of slots in the PCB between the tracks there.. is that significant in understanding the working of the circuit?
73's de Edd
- Aug 21, 2015
- 3,622
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2015
- Messages
- 3,622
Kind Sires . . . . .
OBSERVATION . . . . . Anti Creep Slots
Note the sets of cutouts in the PCB stock between the 2nd and 3rd set of contacts above.
Those are anti creep slots.
By their width and spacing . . . I see your unit as probably being a 120VAC powered unit. . . .right ?
There seems to be marginal / borderline spacing between adjacent power traces . . .thus the cut outs.
Without them the solid board between those points would be subject to time developed deposition of airborne :
lint, fabric fuzz, dust, human and pet dander, crawling insect "leftovers" , smog / dirty air /with its/ carbon deposits and the conditions being exacerbated by overall high air humidity.
Eventually, a mat of this collected deteris could develop between voltage potential points and have a flash over to occur..
Now I assume . . . .AR57 . . . . . that you found that disconnect workaround worked for you and now have that unit all back together and are forgetting it.
Your fix . . . . being akin to . . . . . OH MY, my 2nd car has a flat, so you pull out its spare tire and put it on and then garage that one car, since you use it only " every 5-10 years".
You say . . . . .
I suspect this "special component" they devised is not very reliable. I assume this as i can not find a manufacturer datasheet of it AND the many "complaints" of its quality (e.g. https://www-elektroda-pl.translate....auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=nui) so i disabled this feature.
Au contraire . . . . .I say that component is working absolutely fine .
You know the relays coil is good , because it is engaging the Safe Sense circuitry and stopping the shred motor, and when you took one? two? terminal(s) loose, the coil released the armature and the two contact sets opened.
Blame needs to be directed to the discrete components array that constitute the Safe Sense circuitry and that is starting with Q3 and then passes up to Q4 discrete transistor circuitry and a fault condition is sent over to the left to Q2 transistor where it shuts down base drive to Q1, which is being activated to drive the other .. . ..more recognizable relay . . . . . that is used for engaging the shred motor power.
COMMENT . . . .
on the pair of yellow ceramic HV Y type capacitors associated with the center relay contacts.
Inspecting the top relay contact terminal , I am seeing its foil trace slant down and connect int both bottom leads of the paired capacitors . . .and ALSO catching one lead of a 2.2 meg res which as its other lead going down to connect to another series arranged 2.2 meg res that connects to a large yellow wire . My base suspicion is that this wire is going to connect to the pretty chromed and slotted escutcheon . . . . electrically floating panel . . . . which surrounds the paper slot input.
Now, the top relay contact has its foil going to the right and connecting to both of the top leads of that pair of yellow Y caps . . . . and then that paired connections foil path goes to . . . . .NO WHERE.
( I highly / absolutely suspicion an internal connection, made inside of the relay, of a resistor from there to one of the TOP set of relay contacts. )
You say . . . . .
The slot is not big enough for normal finger.
They are doing more than worrying about your fingers getting into that slot, they are preemptively shutting down motor power, the instant that a finger EVEN initially TOUCHES that plate !
HOW-DO-DEY-DO-DAT ?
The old water and saline enriched human body is being a walking antenna / receptor for the picking up of electromagnetically and electrostatically radiation from AC line wiring.
I'm having to jump ahead . . . . .WITHOUT someones eyes, further examining that circuit board and feed back to me.
BUT that feeble AC signal from the touching of the escutcheon ends up at the base of Q3 to be amplified and then sent up to Q4 for more of same, and then rectified to get a resultant DC signal that ends up at the base of Q2.
Now Q1 is the driver transistor which activates the motor run relay, if the unit had paper inserted and ws running.
The instant that Q2 activates, it places its C-E " short " across Q1 base and motor drive stops, until the body touch of the escutcheon is removed. ( assuredly . . . with some time induced mini delays introduced by circuitry inserted E-capacitors charge/discharge threshold timing)
Then, when you no touchee-touchee escutcheon . . . . . . the loss of that amplified 60~ hum and its turn off of Q2, lets the shredder motor run again.
Thaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssit . . . . . . . . UNTIL such time that a person to feedback requested info from that board . . . feeds back info . . . . for me to make a FULL, in depth analysis.
Be it AR47, doing yeoman duty . . . . . or that sole Polski, that is wanting to get HIS unit BACK to NORMAL.
73's de Edd . . . . .
I never had / used one, but, I perceive that a new fangled work cubicle, is just being a padded cell without a door.
.
OBSERVATION . . . . . Anti Creep Slots
Note the sets of cutouts in the PCB stock between the 2nd and 3rd set of contacts above.
Those are anti creep slots.
By their width and spacing . . . I see your unit as probably being a 120VAC powered unit. . . .right ?
There seems to be marginal / borderline spacing between adjacent power traces . . .thus the cut outs.
Without them the solid board between those points would be subject to time developed deposition of airborne :
lint, fabric fuzz, dust, human and pet dander, crawling insect "leftovers" , smog / dirty air /with its/ carbon deposits and the conditions being exacerbated by overall high air humidity.
Eventually, a mat of this collected deteris could develop between voltage potential points and have a flash over to occur..
Now I assume . . . .AR57 . . . . . that you found that disconnect workaround worked for you and now have that unit all back together and are forgetting it.
Your fix . . . . being akin to . . . . . OH MY, my 2nd car has a flat, so you pull out its spare tire and put it on and then garage that one car, since you use it only " every 5-10 years".
You say . . . . .
I suspect this "special component" they devised is not very reliable. I assume this as i can not find a manufacturer datasheet of it AND the many "complaints" of its quality (e.g. https://www-elektroda-pl.translate....auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=nui) so i disabled this feature.
Au contraire . . . . .I say that component is working absolutely fine .
You know the relays coil is good , because it is engaging the Safe Sense circuitry and stopping the shred motor, and when you took one? two? terminal(s) loose, the coil released the armature and the two contact sets opened.
Blame needs to be directed to the discrete components array that constitute the Safe Sense circuitry and that is starting with Q3 and then passes up to Q4 discrete transistor circuitry and a fault condition is sent over to the left to Q2 transistor where it shuts down base drive to Q1, which is being activated to drive the other .. . ..more recognizable relay . . . . . that is used for engaging the shred motor power.
COMMENT . . . .
on the pair of yellow ceramic HV Y type capacitors associated with the center relay contacts.
Inspecting the top relay contact terminal , I am seeing its foil trace slant down and connect int both bottom leads of the paired capacitors . . .and ALSO catching one lead of a 2.2 meg res which as its other lead going down to connect to another series arranged 2.2 meg res that connects to a large yellow wire . My base suspicion is that this wire is going to connect to the pretty chromed and slotted escutcheon . . . . electrically floating panel . . . . which surrounds the paper slot input.
Now, the top relay contact has its foil going to the right and connecting to both of the top leads of that pair of yellow Y caps . . . . and then that paired connections foil path goes to . . . . .NO WHERE.
( I highly / absolutely suspicion an internal connection, made inside of the relay, of a resistor from there to one of the TOP set of relay contacts. )
You say . . . . .
The slot is not big enough for normal finger.
They are doing more than worrying about your fingers getting into that slot, they are preemptively shutting down motor power, the instant that a finger EVEN initially TOUCHES that plate !
HOW-DO-DEY-DO-DAT ?
The old water and saline enriched human body is being a walking antenna / receptor for the picking up of electromagnetically and electrostatically radiation from AC line wiring.
I'm having to jump ahead . . . . .WITHOUT someones eyes, further examining that circuit board and feed back to me.
BUT that feeble AC signal from the touching of the escutcheon ends up at the base of Q3 to be amplified and then sent up to Q4 for more of same, and then rectified to get a resultant DC signal that ends up at the base of Q2.
Now Q1 is the driver transistor which activates the motor run relay, if the unit had paper inserted and ws running.
The instant that Q2 activates, it places its C-E " short " across Q1 base and motor drive stops, until the body touch of the escutcheon is removed. ( assuredly . . . with some time induced mini delays introduced by circuitry inserted E-capacitors charge/discharge threshold timing)
Then, when you no touchee-touchee escutcheon . . . . . . the loss of that amplified 60~ hum and its turn off of Q2, lets the shredder motor run again.
Thaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssit . . . . . . . . UNTIL such time that a person to feedback requested info from that board . . . feeds back info . . . . for me to make a FULL, in depth analysis.
Be it AR47, doing yeoman duty . . . . . or that sole Polski, that is wanting to get HIS unit BACK to NORMAL.
73's de Edd . . . . .
I never had / used one, but, I perceive that a new fangled work cubicle, is just being a padded cell without a door.
.
Last edited:
Similar threads
