diagnostic port on smartkegger control board.

[roughshawd]

What kind of scope would I use to diagnose this fridge board, a standard oscilloscope? Or does it take a special 1000.00 scope from samsung!??

 

[kellys_eye]

What do you want to 'diagnose'?

 

[roughshawd]

There is a rectangular port with about 12 to 16 pins that I would say is a loading, unloading port for the eeproms and the system. Just worried I might juin everything else if I hacked in... Anybody know what kind of system and interface the old Samsung smart fridges were loaded with?

 

[kellys_eye]

Pics?

If that port is unused that's one thing (an unusual thing too) but it may have been intended for another plug-in device like an LCD panel. Programming ports are hardly ever made available off-board via a dedicated socket unless the device is designed for multiple applications. More commonly any potential programming is achieved through simple gold-plated contact points on the pcb - maybe adjacent to the programmable device itself.

Either way, you'd have to 'decode' the pinout to determine any data/clock lines etc.

 

[roughshawd]

So a simple breakout box is probably the best place to start if its failing?

Problem is it doesn't appear to be failing... I have decided to change the thing thats producing the wrong panel readout... the freezer sensor.. it reads 46 degrees when the freezer is between 0 and 20 farenheit thats a bit off!
But I couldn't get any answers about that dead short thing! When there is a short in the main power system, it would seem that you could read the power through the ground, and if a short is in the device control board system, it would be easily identified by a board error code somewhere on the panel... There is plenty of self diagnostics on this device and I have only gotten 2 errors that have each gone away as I am testing!
So I am thinking a simple short in the Power System somewhere making the 110v appear from the source to the case ground. might be probably in the common line rather than the source or ground lines.

 

[kellys_eye]

What? That makes zero sense in the real world! It might make sense in 'your' imaginary world but here on planet earth it exposes your skills/knowledge at repairs to be more than lacking. Dangerously lacking even.

Give up - I have.........

 

[roughshawd]

Got some pics for you. First pic is a pic of the cameras inability to take pics of the board without the flash... Second pic is a general snap shot of the board itself. third is the port in the center of the board.. upper left is the QR code in the previous pic. fourth pic is the failed freezer temp sensor output... the actual freezer temp is 0 degrees f. - Fifth pic is the freezer... no light on in there... sixth pic this is the beer lagering room... failing light also... but sometimes, I can see a dim light in the LEDS in the central back area between the vent holes. Other times there is no light at all. Pic 7 is the refrigerator light on above the lagering room which the light is off in.

 

[roughshawd]

The LEDS are on a different line than the freezer sensor, and the door open alarm blasts all the time when its function is turned on. I connected my Wi-fi and found that the fridge sent the message Door Closed, then after I tested it, the message Door open re-appeared and it is bong bonging again.

 

[Neal]

Wow, there really is a fridge--I thought it was all is his head!

 

[kellys_eye]

There is a rectangular port with about 12 to 16 pins that I would say is a loading, unloading port for the eeproms and the system.

This is the kind of nonsense we have to put up with...... first, learn to count. There are TWENTY pins on that 'port' and it's even labelled ON THE BOARD as to its purpose - you can measure various sensor signals at it.

You are clearly out of your depth with this 'repair' and can neither proffer reliable data on any findings, can't describe any 'real' testing methods you've made nor take advice when it's given.

Seriously, either get a professional in or dump the kegger - nothing else is going to repair it.

 

[roughshawd]

Good kick pants...
On with the show. 20 pins, always have a pro do the big thinking for you!
I can measure various sensors with it... so if I had say an 8 channel digital scope I could probably read the sensor values and find out whats causing my problems? But of course the board would have to be removed, and then powered and of course a signal sent through it and all... I am starting to get the gist of why electronics was not suggested as a career move!! Suppose the fridge got a brain. Then what halloween story would you tell it to get it back on track? Definitively not electronical in verbose but necesssary in real world technique and knowlogy.
My post is about the short... do you think the makers would connect any old wiring to any old ground on a sophisticated system like this, or do you think they would have an isolated and embedded system that kept everything in order?
That being said, the short has to be found and repaired I think.

The wires that I swapped out because of colors in CN30(wrong pinout on connector) is addressed in the repair manual(see pics.) There are two(2) s/Blu wires in this(CN30) harness, and they both terminate at the same gray line. I may have swapped the wrong s/Blu wire with the w/Blk. I can try the other wire as the swap.

 

[kellys_eye]

so if I had say an 8 channel digital scope I could probably read the sensor values and find out whats causing my problems?

Not necessarily, you can do that with a simple analogue multimeter

But of course the board would have to be removed

Not necessarily - you can do this in-situ

do you think the makers would connect any old wiring to any old ground on a sophisticated system like this

Never - that's all in your imagination. You know about 'legal responsibility' don't you?

or do you think they would have an isolated and embedded system that kept everything in order?

What does that even mean?

The wires that I swapped out because of colors in CN30(wrong pinout on connector) is addressed in the repair manual(see pics.)

Simple enough to trace the wires to the actual sensors to see if they are correctly wired/coloured.

The fault-finding guide seems pretty comprehensive. If you knew what you were looking at, what it was you were supposed to be measuring, had an idea of expected signal types/levels or simply knew how to read and follow instructions you'd be able to fix this.

The results currently speak for themselves.

 

[hevans1944]

IF @roughshawd knows as much about refrigeration as he does about electronics, I have a suggestion: Remove ALL the circuit boards and the control panel. What remains will be a basic refrigeration system. Try doing a DIY project to get it running to suit your application. You will need some pressure/vacuum gauges and a small vacuum pump with provision to reclaim whatever refrigerant remains in the system. You may also need to brush up on your brazing skills if you need to insert valved fittings for refrigeration servicing.

All that may seem complicated, and for most folks it is. And the theory of operation is almost like magic unless you know and understand these three laws of Thermodynamics as stated by Ginsberg's Theorem: (1) You can't win. (2) You can't even break even. (3) You can't quit the game.

But since when does a beer keg even need space-age technology to make or keep lager cool? WWVD or What Would Vikings Do?

Anyhoo, after removing all the circuit boards, place them solder-side down inside a kitchen oven whose temperature is about 450F. Some folks here have modified toaster ovens for the purpose of re-flow soldering printed circuit board surface-mount components. Very good mods allow a temperature-versus-time profile, but that isn't necessary for salvage operations.

In some "third world" countries, children hold circuit boards over fires built in discarded oil drums, the heat being strong enough to melt the solder holding SMDs onto the PCB. If you go the kitchen oven route, place a metal pan to catch the surface mounted components as their soldered connections melt and the component falls into the pan. This may take several hours, but now you have a source of surface-mount components to marvel at and possibly use for repair of something. Or maybe, if you can identify the components, you can sell them to other enthusiasts onCraigslist or eBay.

 

[roughshawd]

Brother in law is a Viking...
I took the boards out, but put them right back in because they are all working properly.
I have to replace the refrigerator sensor, the freezer sensor, and probably a switch somewhere...
What I am saying is that this $3000 fridge just needs a few sensors replaced, and it will be back up and running fine.
I got it gratis... Now for the reason for the advanced beer-ring project(get it?).

Brewing is at it's last leg(or on its' last leg if you prefer) and so the art of brewing is becoming more prominent as it grinds down to a select few brewers.
You can learn how to brew in any good supply shop, but mostly that is malt extracts and a few hops with some clarifier tossed in.

Old style beers were made by master brewers who had spent most of their lives with ingredients and what are call adjusts today. Adjucts are the flavors that brewers use in their beers... see sometimes a heavy flavor simply disappears when its fermented, and sometimes the smallest amount overpowers even the beer flavor.
But those guys who invented beer, were meticulous about their work. They made things that everyone has been trying to recreate for hundreds of years.
The original oktoberfest(boo!) beer recipe was lost in a fire on the night of Oktoberfest in Munich.
It had been a beer drinking tradition for thousands of years.
I think it was a lager. I cut my teen chops on LuckyLager, if you know that is, and it took me to Oktoberfest, and I didn't even know what Oktoberfest was!
So I have this recipe locked in my back brain somewhere, that is saying stuff that only great brew meisters understand. Now I have a "SmartKegger" in my carport that is ready for the fermenter, and I don't really care whether the sensors are working or not!
Can you tell that electronics is one of my higher ranking hobbies???!!
There is no luck in brewing. Only know how and ingredients.
The grain came from a valley East of where they found that iceman guy. (Austria--thats where they got the malt, thats the main ingredient)
They were using extracts long before the Oktoberfest beer was invented. The extract was from Italy or Greece(Sicily is famous for their liquor) and they used some hops that were a cross breed of Tettnanger and something else..I'm betting Hallertaller, or however its spelled! There was an adjuct used in it and with that I know of a guy in Germany who claims he knows what it was if I can get the rest of it together.
It must have been a year old, because its flavor couldn't be matched by any of the local breweries. That means it had to have been fermented in cold weather, in a slow fermenter called lagering. It takes a yeast that reproduces itself, then ferments some more, in the bottom of the keg, over a longer length of time. The final beer was full bodied, looked like a golden pilsner, and tasted like grandad used to make. This beer I am trying to make is easy to fake. There are literally thousands of home brewers with taps of it right now, having an "Oktoberfest" that I am missing again. I am studying. reworking my techniques. trying to find the right grains, the extracts, and some drunk german who will probably be sober when I get there. So I say to myself..."There is more to this than I expected, I better get brewing" And I am starting to formulate my own lager, in style tradition and formulation by rote. A lager that will stand the little hairs on the back of your neck up!

 

[kellys_eye]

TLR

What you need to do is learn how to understand what it is you're looking at, what you're working with and what you're talking about.

None of us have a clue.........

 

[hevans1944]

TLR

What you need to do is learn how to understand what it is you're looking at, what you're working with and what you're talking about.

None of us have a clue.........

Well, clues are nice to have... it appears that @roughshawd is quite literally a homebrew beer aficionado who wants to brew his beer at a controlled temperature below normal ambient temperatures... a cold lager process.

I can remember my father making "homebrew" beer in the detached garage of a house we rented in Lake Charles, Louisiana early in the 1950s. He brewed it in a large ceramic crock using brewery yeast, grain, and hops... there may have been a small amount of sugar, too, added to encourage the yeast to grow. Dad either purchased a supply of brown long-neck beer bottles, or reused bottles from which he had already consumed the beer. He also purchased a larger quantity of metal caps and a bench-press tool to swage the caps onto the filled bottles. I don't remember how long it took him to actually make beer he considered fit for human consumption... perhaps he never did accomplish that feat, but I do remember when he first tasted the results. Dad was a good poker player, so it was impossible to tell if the beer he made was palatable or if he just faked it. I do remember that he did not produce any more after that first batch was bottled.

Years later there developed a "craft brewing" community that opened stores where one could purchase their wares. I never much cared for the taste of beer while growing up, and now I only drink non-alcoholic beer. One of my daughters and her husband got hooked on so-called craft beer and would visit the craft brewing scene quite often. Seems to be an innocent addiction as long as they continue to feed their children on a regular basis with real food. Hmmm. Beer is probably real food, but a diet of only beer is probably not healthy. OTOH, the French feed their kids wine, as do Italians, so I guess it depends on where you grew up.

I don't much care for the taste of alcohol-removed American beer, but my wife prefers dry-hopped Clausthaler brand of imported non-alcohol German beer. I find the taste acceptable, too, but usually prefer to drink something else with meals. I do notice that American football (not soccer) games are not as interesting without the consumption of alcohol.

So... @roughshawd has acquired, for almost nothing, an expensive Samsung refrigerator/freezer because the temperature sensors don't work right. After removing all the internal shelves it is apparently large enough to hold a brewing keg so he can make cold-lager beer. Now all he has to do is get it working again.

 

[kellys_eye]

There was a phase many years ago when home-brewing beer was all the rage - sometime around the mid 70's IIRC - and there will always be a dedicated hardcore keen to develop either their own or reach the heady heights of popularity and the potential income that may acquire.

I confess to having had a go myself using one of the many kits that were around - quite a few family members gave them as gifts at Christmas too!

If I was to go 'modern' and need the use of a cooler then apart from purchasing one dedicated to the task, building one would be on the agenda too however I would be a bit more pragmatic about how I did it. Using an old refrigerator is easy enough but one with a dedicated microprocesor, digital readout and 'bells and whistles'? No chance. Far too complicated for its actual need. You can purchase temperature controllers for 'pennies' these days and the refrigeration hardware is the same for ALL such devices in-as-much as you're looking at a temperature sensor and a compressor - that's it. OK, a light that comes on when you open the door might be useful too but that's as technical as it gets.

If the OP wants to restore his refrigerator to as-new condition then that's another thing but that harks back to my previous post about understanding what he's looking at and how it works. Without that knowledge/understanding you simply cannot repair it - end of.

 

[roughshawd]

Freedom is a strange thing indeed....
so too is beer sometimes!
It seems to me that until the smartkegger project is complete and operating that it will be dry around here, and of course the project must go on if I am to get my Oktoberfest beer made... Anyway, its working. just not reading out properly. A new sensor. wow. what a find!!!

 

[melessagraher]

If the OP wants to restore his refrigerator to as-new condition then that's another thing but that harks back to my previous post about understanding what he's looking at and how it works. Without that knowledge/understanding you simply cannot repair it - end of.

I second your words

 

[roughshawd]

Brother in law is a Viking...
I took the boards out, but put them right back in because they are all working properly.
I have to replace the refrigerator sensor, the freezer sensor, and probably a switch somewhere...
What I am saying is that this $3000 fridge just needs a few sensors replaced, and it will be back up and running fine.
I got it gratis... Now for the reason for the advanced beer-ring project(get it?).

Brewing is at it's last leg(or on its' last leg if you prefer) and so the art of brewing is becoming more prominent as it grinds down to a select few brewers.
You can learn how to brew in any good supply shop, but mostly that is malt extracts and a few hops with some clarifier tossed in.

Old style beers were made by master brewers who had spent most of their lives with ingredients and what are call adjusts today. Adjucts are the flavors that brewers use in their beers... see sometimes a heavy flavor simply disappears when its fermented, and sometimes the smallest amount overpowers even the beer flavor.
But those guys who invented beer, were meticulous about their work. They made things that everyone has been trying to recreate for hundreds of years.
The original oktoberfest(boo!) beer recipe was lost in a fire on the night of Oktoberfest in Munich.
It had been a beer drinking tradition for thousands of years.
I think it was a lager. I cut my teen chops on LuckyLager, if you know that is, and it took me to Oktoberfest, and I didn't even know what Oktoberfest was!
So I have this recipe locked in my back brain somewhere, that is saying stuff that only great brew meisters understand. Now I have a "SmartKegger" in my carport that is ready for the fermenter, and I don't really care whether the sensors are working or not!
Can you tell that electronics is one of my higher ranking hobbies???!!
There is no luck in brewing. Only know how and ingredients.
The grain came from a valley East of where they found that iceman guy. (Austria--thats where they got the malt, thats the main ingredient)
They were using extracts long before the Oktoberfest beer was invented. The extract was from Italy or Greece(Sicily is famous for their liquor) and they used some hops that were a cross breed of Tettnanger and something else..I'm betting Hallertaller, or however its spelled! There was an adjuct used in it and with that I know of a guy in Germany who claims he knows what it was if I can get the rest of it together.
It must have been a year old, because its flavor couldn't be matched by any of the local breweries. That means it had to have been fermented in cold weather, in a slow fermenter called lagering. It takes a yeast that reproduces itself, then ferments some more, in the bottom of the keg, over a longer length of time. The final beer was full bodied, looked like a golden pilsner, and tasted like grandad used to make. This beer I am trying to make is easy to fake. There are literally thousands of home brewers with taps of it right now, having an "Oktoberfest" that I am missing again. I am studying. reworking my techniques. trying to find the right grains, the extracts, and some drunk german who will probably be sober when I get there. So I say to myself..."There is more to this than I expected, I better get brewing" And I am starting to formulate my own lager, in style tradition and formulation by rote. A lager that will stand the little hairs on the back of your neck up!

I was considering a complete change, building new boards and creating new and exciting programs, but the world just isn't turning that way. So there is a "short cut", what I usually call a ' short stack ' that should be a good option but there's no one who knows private business tech... Except the tech! So I ask the obvious..so what! If there's a 20 pin port on a board, then there's probably a tool for it. Like I find on the back of my digital scope, there is a 20 pin port... Made by Asians...

Not necessarily, you can do that with a simple analogue multimeter

Not necessarily - you can do this in-situ

Never - that's all in your imagination. You know about 'legal responsibility' don't you?

What does that even mean?

Simple enough to trace the wires to the actual sensors to see if they are correctly wired/coloured.

The fault-finding guide seems pretty comprehensive. If you knew what you were looking at, what it was you were supposed to be measuring, had an idea of expected signal types/levels or simply knew how to read and follow instructions you'd be able to fix this.

The results currently speak for themselves.

Processors have a few different systems they use to handle data. Reference, is the main kind. They use isolated circuits, to handle dedicated source, and embedded circuits to handle most accessories. When you build a program, it's either an executable, something that happens immediately, or embedded, something that might happen again and over again or is Terminate and stay resident, to run whenever.(TSR). Hope that helps!
it's a foreign port(I grew up on an Island!)