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Does the PICKit 2 support ICSP ?

I

ian field

Jan 1, 1970
0
Please can anyone tell me whether it is possible to use a PICKit 2 to
connect to the target board via ICSP, and what hardware I need to order to
do so?

TIA.
 
J

Jon Slaughter

Jan 1, 1970
0
ian field said:
Please can anyone tell me whether it is possible to use a PICKit 2 to
connect to the target board via ICSP, and what hardware I need to order to
do so?

TIA.

Of course, that is what the pic kit is all about about. From my experience
with it, it is pretty simple to use. The software could be better as it
doesn't give you many details and the hardware is somewhat overpriced(look
at the schematics of it) and cheaply made but it does seem to do the job
very easily.

Unfortunately it doesn't do ICD yet because MPLab doesn't support it.
Supposedly it will in the future.

If you plan on programing a lot of pics its probably worth it though(pretty
much being the cheapest commercial programmer). But if your just trying to
program a few chips here and there then you can do it yourself with freely
available software and very simple and cheap hardware circuits. (although
none support the newer pic24's AFAIK)
 
I

ian field

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jon Slaughter said:
Of course, that is what the pic kit is all about about. From my experience
with it, it is pretty simple to use. The software could be better as it
doesn't give you many details and the hardware is somewhat overpriced(look
at the schematics of it) and cheaply made but it does seem to do the job
very easily.

Unfortunately it doesn't do ICD yet because MPLab doesn't support it.
Supposedly it will in the future.

If you plan on programing a lot of pics its probably worth it
though(pretty much being the cheapest commercial programmer). But if your
just trying to program a few chips here and there then you can do it
yourself with freely available software and very simple and cheap hardware
circuits. (although none support the newer pic24's AFAIK)

So far I've spent the whole week trying to get a straight answer out of
Microchip sales, so I thought if I find out what the minimum list of parts I
need to order to use a ICSP lead directly to the target board without the
cost of the myriad of header boards for all the different PICs.

Its hard to tell from the sales literature and data sheets but it looks like
a USB lead, a plastic box which is the PICKit 2 and a circuit board with a
row of pins that slot into the PICKit 2, some drawings also show a small pod
that may possibly be used with an ICSP lead, I don't want the SMD PCB which
looks like its intended to be used once then replaced - all I want is to
connect a PICKit 2 to the final project target board with an ICSP lead.
 
J

Jon Slaughter

Jan 1, 1970
0
ian field said:
So far I've spent the whole week trying to get a straight answer out of
Microchip sales, so I thought if I find out what the minimum list of parts
I need to order to use a ICSP lead directly to the target board without
the cost of the myriad of header boards for all the different PICs.

Its hard to tell from the sales literature and data sheets but it looks
like a USB lead, a plastic box which is the PICKit 2 and a circuit board
with a row of pins that slot into the PICKit 2, some drawings also show a
small pod that may possibly be used with an ICSP lead, I don't want the
SMD PCB which looks like its intended to be used once then replaced - all
I want is to connect a PICKit 2 to the final project target board with an
ICSP lead.

I pic kit 2 will do what you want. You have a header that essentially runs
to the pins of the pic that you want to program. It can supply the power if
needed too.

What I did was was make my own connector cause I didn't want to order the
demo boards. The connector on the pic kit for the icsp is 6 pin female
connector. Not sure what they are called but I simply ripped some pins off a
damage mother board and made my own connector. It doesn't look pretty and
slips some times but does the job(I'm sure you could make one and probably
nicer than mine).


What I suggest is that you look on there site for the pic kit 2 documents as
they explain everything. There are some issues when interfacing ICSP with a
circuit that uses the same pins because the other circuit could interfer
with it. (so either dedicate the pins on the pic for icsp programming or
look at the pic kit datasheets/user guides/app notes)

Its really not that difficult and I think you might be making it more
complicated than it is. You will obviously need some way to connect the
programmer to the chip but pretty much thats up to you and is extremely
easy. I say if thats your only issue then buy the pic kit 2 and then deal
with it once you get it. Chances are you'll see that it's not hard and can
figure something out for your needs.

BTW, the circuit board stuff is the demo board which is seperate if you just
buy the pic kit standalone.... which is just a cd, pic kit 2 programmer, and
USB cable and costs about 35$. If you buy the demo board then thats like 50$
or something total but you'll see need to make an interface somehow(might
copy there design or just hack it like I did).


BTW, There are no different headers for different pics. Each pic has 2 pins
for ICSP(although sometimes duplicated for easier routing), nMCLR, Voltage,
and voltage regulation. Depending on the pic it can be easier or hard to
deal with but ultimately its just a routing and header issue. (you can
always rig an adapter from the pic kit 2 to the pcb if you use something
that is directly incompatible with the pic kit 2)

You can also get the schematics for the demo board and see what they did for
ICSP. It almost is essentially just connecting the header pins to the
various pins on the pic but there is that issue I mented earlier.


I think you think that the demo board has to be used to program a pic and
that is not the case. Get the standalone pic kit 2 programmer and you'll be
able to program any pic in no time. (You will have to rig a way to get the
signals from the pic kit 2 ICSP header to the pins on the pic but that could
be as simple as using a few wires and inserting them into the female header
of the pic kit.)

Jon
 
I

ian field

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jon Slaughter said:
I pic kit 2 will do what you want. You have a header that essentially runs
to the pins of the pic that you want to program. It can supply the power
if needed too.

What I did was was make my own connector cause I didn't want to order the
demo boards. The connector on the pic kit for the icsp is 6 pin female
connector. Not sure what they are called but I simply ripped some pins off
a damage mother board and made my own connector. It doesn't look pretty
and slips some times but does the job(I'm sure you could make one and
probably nicer than mine).


What I suggest is that you look on there site for the pic kit 2 documents
as they explain everything. There are some issues when interfacing ICSP
with a circuit that uses the same pins because the other circuit could
interfer with it. (so either dedicate the pins on the pic for icsp
programming or look at the pic kit datasheets/user guides/app notes)

Its really not that difficult and I think you might be making it more
complicated than it is. You will obviously need some way to connect the
programmer to the chip but pretty much thats up to you and is extremely
easy. I say if thats your only issue then buy the pic kit 2 and then deal
with it once you get it. Chances are you'll see that it's not hard and can
figure something out for your needs.

BTW, the circuit board stuff is the demo board which is seperate if you
just buy the pic kit standalone.... which is just a cd, pic kit 2
programmer, and USB cable and costs about 35$. If you buy the demo board
then thats like 50$ or something total but you'll see need to make an
interface somehow(might copy there design or just hack it like I did).


BTW, There are no different headers for different pics. Each pic has 2
pins for ICSP(although sometimes duplicated for easier routing), nMCLR,
Voltage, and voltage regulation. Depending on the pic it can be easier or
hard to deal with but ultimately its just a routing and header issue. (you
can always rig an adapter from the pic kit 2 to the pcb if you use
something that is directly incompatible with the pic kit 2)

You can also get the schematics for the demo board and see what they did
for ICSP. It almost is essentially just connecting the header pins to the
various pins on the pic but there is that issue I mented earlier.


I think you think that the demo board has to be used to program a pic and
that is not the case. Get the standalone pic kit 2 programmer and you'll
be able to program any pic in no time. (You will have to rig a way to get
the signals from the pic kit 2 ICSP header to the pins on the pic but that
could be as simple as using a few wires and inserting them into the female
header of the pic kit.)

Jon

Thanks for explaining it, I've spent a whole week trying to get a straight
answer out of the burger flippers at Microchip sales!
 
J

Jon Slaughter

Jan 1, 1970
0
ian field said:
Thanks for explaining it, I've spent a whole week trying to get a straight
answer out of the burger flippers at Microchip sales!

NP. I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to do but if you got a bread
board, some wire, a few tantalum caps(for some of the newer end pics) then
you shouldn't have a problem program most, if not all, the pics supported by
the pic kit 2. Although with just wire you'll have to rig some kinda header
to make it work but its not all that difficult.
 
I

ian field

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jon Slaughter said:
NP. I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to do but if you got a bread
board, some wire, a few tantalum caps(for some of the newer end pics) then
you shouldn't have a problem program most, if not all, the pics supported
by the pic kit 2. Although with just wire you'll have to rig some kinda
header to make it work but its not all that difficult.


My previous understanding was that the development area pcb that slots into
the PICKit 2 is a SMD only experimenters board, I still use only
through-hole components so I figured the best way would be not to use the
development area and programme the MCU via ICSP, When I asked Microchip
sales what I needed to do ICSP with a PICKit 2 they sent me a link to
pictures of numerous header boards for various MCUs that slot into the end
of the PICKit 2.

This would be a strip board with the basics like the crystal and GND + Vdd +
Vpp rails needed with a 6 pin header for the ICSP lead, or in the future a
finished project board with an ICSP connector.

What I regard as the established standard ICSP connector, has 6 pins - one
pin is snipped to act as a key to prevent plug reversal leaving 5 wires:
GND, Vdd, Vpp, PGD & PGC.
 
J

Jon Slaughter

Jan 1, 1970
0
ian field said:
My previous understanding was that the development area pcb that slots
into the PICKit 2 is a SMD only experimenters board, I still use only
through-hole components so I figured the best way would be not to use the
development area and programme the MCU via ICSP, When I asked Microchip
sales what I needed to do ICSP with a PICKit 2 they sent me a link to
pictures of numerous header boards for various MCUs that slot into the end
of the PICKit 2.

This would be a strip board with the basics like the crystal and GND + Vdd
+ Vpp rails needed with a 6 pin header for the ICSP lead, or in the future
a finished project board with an ICSP connector.

What I regard as the established standard ICSP connector, has 6 pins - one
pin is snipped to act as a key to prevent plug reversal leaving 5 wires:
GND, Vdd, Vpp, PGD & PGC.

No, one is an AUX which I think is auxillary power IIRC. I don't use it for
programming though. But the rest of pins are correct. As far as
interfacing with the pic to be programming, its just a matter of connecting
those pins on the pic kit 2 to the appropriate pins on the pic. If the pic
is on some board and that board has some icsp connecter then you could
easily rig something up so it will work.

I have no experience with all the demo and daughter boards but I imagine it
can't be all that complex. You might not find a "pretty" solution but I'm
sure you could rig something up in 5 mins if you have to.

if you goto

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en023805

all those boards that connect to the pic kit 2 are just pcb's with a pic on
them for easy programming/debugging/experimenting. They are not needed.

If you know how to program, know how to solder, have a breadboard, a few
pic's, and some wire then you can program those pic's.

http://www.microchipdirect.com/productsearch.aspx?Keywords=PG164120

You see you can buy the demo board seperately. You do not need them to
program a pic. All you need is the pic kit 2.

You can see the ICSP header on the boards though. They are 6 pins and have
the various functionality you mentioned.

----

here is what I did. Ordered pic kit 2. Got it but it had no male connector
for interfacing with any pic. I got 6 wires, 6 "pins"(the kinda that you
find on motherboards and that you see on the demo board), soldered the 6
wires to the pins, used hot glue to hold everything together(not very pretty
but works), and stripped the ends of those wires.

Now all I do is stick in my rigged connecter into the header on the pic kit
2, connect the appropriate wires to the pins on the pic I'm trying to
program(and doing any extra stuff I need), and program it.

The only issue I have is that sometimes the connecter slips out of the pic
kit 2. This is probably an issue with the header on the pic kit because
there is no latching mechanism. Its not a huge issue and I suppose a dab of
hot glue or some tape would fix it. Just happens every once in a while.

I think maybe all those different headers is just for differen demo boards
and such. If your not involved in demoing anything then it shouldn't be an
issue. If you are then its probably still not necessary if you don't mind
rigging stuff.

Jon
 
I

ian field

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jon Slaughter said:
BTW, if you scroll down there is all the files you need. You can see the
schematics and stuff too.

Thanks - I found those, the pinout diagrams make everything clear. What
isn't clear is why Microchip couldn't just tell me that all I need for what
I want to do, is the standalone PICKit 2 !
 
J

Jon Slaughter

Jan 1, 1970
0
ian field said:
Thanks - I found those, the pinout diagrams make everything clear. What
isn't clear is why Microchip couldn't just tell me that all I need for
what I want to do, is the standalone PICKit 2 !

lol. Don't know. Could be many reasons. Maybe they would rather you believe
that you needed more than just the pic kit 2 so you would buy more.

Also realize that you can do the exact same thing with just a pc and a few
components(maybe 5$ worth) and program most of pic's. In a weekend or two
you can probably build a pic programmer. The software is done for you and
there are a lot of schematics for different programmers. Essentialy the main
issue is that you have to have an external power source(or two) for the
various voltages(I used a bench supply before I got the pic kit) and a few
components(either a simple oc tri state and a transistor or two or a few
mosfets and resistors).

If you just want to start programing pics then probably just buying it is
the way to go but want to know a little more then you can do it yourself
quite easily and cheaper(although it won't look as nice).

Jon
 
I

ian field

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jon Slaughter said:
lol. Don't know. Could be many reasons. Maybe they would rather you
believe that you needed more than just the pic kit 2 so you would buy
more.

Also realize that you can do the exact same thing with just a pc and a few
components(maybe 5$ worth) and program most of pic's. In a weekend or two
you can probably build a pic programmer. The software is done for you and
there are a lot of schematics for different programmers. Essentialy the
main issue is that you have to have an external power source(or two) for
the various voltages(I used a bench supply before I got the pic kit) and a
few components(either a simple oc tri state and a transistor or two or a
few mosfets and resistors).

If you just want to start programing pics then probably just buying it is
the way to go but want to know a little more then you can do it yourself
quite easily and cheaper(although it won't look as nice).

Jon

The main issue is the number of devices supported by any given programmer
and whether the list is updated as new devices appear. There are other
issues too, the Velleman K8048 which I have only has 8, 18 & 28 pin sockets
which are all 0.3" so any 0.6" devices that may be supported will require an
ICSP header board, as it happens the K8048 makes the same non-standard use
of the RS232 I/F as the Tait style programmers so I assume its probably
possible to use the associated programmer software with the K8048.
Unfortunately the Tait websites have notices that they will no longer be
updated and the Tait inspired Serpic 2 programmer which is almost identical
to the K8048, except additional support for AVR couldn't be found last time
I searched for it. Hopefully it is easier to keep a native Microchip
programmer up to date.
 
J

Jon Slaughter

Jan 1, 1970
0
ian field said:
The main issue is the number of devices supported by any given programmer
and whether the list is updated as new devices appear. There are other
issues too, the Velleman K8048 which I have only has 8, 18 & 28 pin
sockets which are all 0.3" so any 0.6" devices that may be supported will
require an ICSP header board, as it happens the K8048 makes the same
non-standard use of the RS232 I/F as the Tait style programmers so I
assume its probably possible to use the associated programmer software
with the K8048. Unfortunately the Tait websites have notices that they
will no longer be updated and the Tait inspired Serpic 2 programmer which
is almost identical to the K8048, except additional support for AVR
couldn't be found last time I searched for it. Hopefully it is easier to
keep a native Microchip programmer up to date.

I'm not sure about the other programmers. The pic kit 2 doesn't use sockets
so you don't have to worry to much about that. OTH you will have to somehow
connect the header to the pic you want to program. I seriously doubt you'll
have an issue with it.

If you are just wanting to program pic's(and a few other devices that it
supports) as a "hobby" then its probably the way to go. The programmer can
be updated to program any devices that support ICSP and I suppose if you
really wanted you could modify the firmware to program other devices.
Luckily you are given the schematics and source code to all the software to
do that.

The pic kit 2 supports all ICSP devices AFAIK except the latest devices. It
also cannot be used with ICD in MPLAB for all the devices yet but MPLAB
supposedly will eventually be updated for it.

I think if you compare the price with other programmers then its unbeatable.

If you still have doubts then why don't you post a specific comparision
between the programmers you are looking at and your specific
needs/application. I'm not sure if you want to just program pic's and if
you are doing this in a production environment.

Jon
 
I

ian field

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jon Slaughter said:
I'm not sure about the other programmers. The pic kit 2 doesn't use
sockets so you don't have to worry to much about that. OTH you will have
to somehow connect the header to the pic you want to program. I seriously
doubt you'll have an issue with it.

If you are just wanting to program pic's(and a few other devices that it
supports) as a "hobby" then its probably the way to go. The programmer can
be updated to program any devices that support ICSP and I suppose if you
really wanted you could modify the firmware to program other devices.
Luckily you are given the schematics and source code to all the software
to do that.

The pic kit 2 supports all ICSP devices AFAIK except the latest devices.
It also cannot be used with ICD in MPLAB for all the devices yet but MPLAB
supposedly will eventually be updated for it.

I think if you compare the price with other programmers then its
unbeatable.

If you still have doubts then why don't you post a specific comparision
between the programmers you are looking at and your specific
needs/application. I'm not sure if you want to just program pic's and if
you are doing this in a production environment.

Jon

Thanks that pretty much answers my question.
 
No, one is an AUX which I think is auxillary power IIRC. I don't use it for
programming though. But the rest of pins are correct. As far as
interfacing with the pic to be programming, its just a matter of connecting
those pins on the pic kit 2 to the appropriate pins on the pic. If the pic
is on some board and that board has some icsp connecter then you could
easily rig something up so it will work.

I have no experience with all the demo and daughter boards but I imagine it
can't be all that complex. You might not find a "pretty" solution but I'm
sure you could rig something up in 5 mins if you have to.

if you goto

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeI...

all those boards that connect to the pic kit 2 are just pcb's with a pic on
them for easy programming/debugging/experimenting. They are not needed.

If you know how to program, know how to solder, have a breadboard, a few
pic's, and some wire then you can program those pic's.

http://www.microchipdirect.com/productsearch.aspx?Keywords=PG164120

You see you can buy the demo board seperately. You do not need them to
program a pic. All you need is the pic kit 2.

You can see the ICSP header on the boards though. They are 6 pins and have
the various functionality you mentioned.

----

here is what I did. Ordered pic kit 2. Got it but it had no male connector
for interfacing with any pic. I got 6 wires, 6 "pins"(the kinda that you
find on motherboards and that you see on the demo board), soldered the 6
wires to the pins, used hot glue to hold everything together(not very pretty
but works), and stripped the ends of those wires.

Now all I do is stick in my rigged connecter into the header on the pic kit
2, connect the appropriate wires to the pins on the pic I'm trying to
program(and doing any extra stuff I need), and program it.

The only issue I have is that sometimes the connecter slips out of the pic
kit 2. This is probably an issue with the header on the pic kit because
there is no latching mechanism. Its not a huge issue and I suppose a dab of
hot glue or some tape would fix it. Just happens every once in a while.

I think maybe all those different headers is just for differen demo boards
and such. If your not involved in demoing anything then it shouldn't be an
issue. If you are then its probably still not necessary if you don't mind
rigging stuff.

Jon

The PICkit 2 is an excellent little ICD, but I too dislike the 6pin
inline connector (and the ICD2 RJ-12) so I choose a 2x5 type IDC
connector for the Junebug kit.
http://www.blueroomelectronics.com
 
A

Au Groups

Jan 1, 1970
0
The PICkit 2 is great design.
The CB0703 (PICKit2) design has some enhanced features (which makes it
even better): a RJ12 connector and an optional external power supply
are implemented.

With a RJ12 cable (part #:CBL-RJ12-RVS), the BB0703 (PICKit2) can work
directly with most target board/programmer designed for ICD2.

DIY kits are available here:
http://www.auelectronics.selfip.com/Hardware-CB0703.htm

Full function units with life-time warranty are available here:
http://www.auelectronics.selfip.com/System-PICkit2.htm
 
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