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Don't Touch My Junk!

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Martin Brown

Jan 1, 1970
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You know (not sure how old you are?), but they used to put people's
feet in these little X-ray machines at shoe stores so the salesperson
(supposedly) could recommend a perfect fitting set of shoes.
These machines were deemed "safe" to, at the time.
But many cancers later, we all learned otherwise.

Quack doctors used to sell radium cures too in those bad old days. But
that see your feet gimmick (which I am not old enough to remember) was
obviously dodgy from the outset as realtime Xray imaging was high dose.
Doctors used to advertise cigarettes, too.

They still do. Big tobacco still has a few trusted doctors who will
testify on oath that smoking tobacco does not cause cancer (with a very
cleverly crafted legal form of words to reassure the suckers).

Same guys and their tobacco front organisations also do a good line in
AGW denial - the late Fred Sietz was a great exponent of lying for big
tobacco when he sold his soul to them after retirement. Lindzen has some
pretty odd ideas about secondary smoke too.
I guess the point is: Don't be too quick to declare backscatter
systems safe.
They may be. I don't really know. But I see them as pointless
anyway.

The dose makes the poison. They are very low dose. The cosmic rays and
their spallation products which are charged particles when flying at
high altitude will be more dangerous. It is the people working near the
machines regularly who will have to be monitored and be careful - not
the passengers (not even regular travellers).

When you fly near the poles sometimes the flight is delayed or diverted
if a coronal mass ejection is in progress and the aurora is too strong.
That threat is real enough - at least to the aircrews accumulated dose.
I think what really annoys me about this whole airport security thing
is: It's never going to work.
But let's say it does work 100%. What then?

You can make it more difficult for an aggressor, but the terrorists
always have first mover advantage if you have left any gaps in the
security system. Intelligence led discovery has worked well recently.
the toner cartridge bombs were good enough to get past swab tests.
Well, I say it strongly encourages evil-doers to select other targets.
And dare I say, other targets exist that can inflict far more grief.

Undoubtedly they will try, but vigilance is necessary. UK has a lot more
experience of this than the US. IRA terrorists have been blowing up our
city centres fairly regularly since the 1970's.

Regards,
Martin Brown
 
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Martin Brown

Jan 1, 1970
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Recently, I went through airport security with a diet coke.

No you didn't and for once I agree with the security guys. [snip]
4) Lesson #4: The focus in on air transportation because those in
charge of our security have no imagination.

Actually I think they are on the money on this one. Either you open it
and drink it there or you junk it. Your mistake! The rules on liquids
being taken airside are *VERY* clear and have been for over 4 years.
Well, thank you Martin for your condescending reply.
Asshole?

You asked for it. The security guys are not paid to think - they are
paid to do their job as specified. The rules say nothing more that 100cc
liquid goes through with no exceptions. You cannot blame them for
enforcing it. Did you see the video of the liquid bomb plot demo?

I actually feel sorry for security guys. They have a job to do and they
are unpopular because of it. UK ones are fairly polite by comparison.
I'm sure you never did something without thinking.

Yes, I'm aware that the TSA has rules about carrying on liquids.

I am not a slow-learner - yet you have somehow managed to have not
learned how to behave on a public forum interfacing with someone you
don't even know.
Where are your fucking manners? :)

Anyway, - DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THEY CHECK EVERYTHING AIRSIDE??

Not quite everything, there is triage in place. But anything that might
be a vector for threats should be checked at the loading bay. They take
airside security seriously in the UK. I cannot really comment on US
airport security now, but they were always pretty hopeless in the past.

Heathrow pulls people with live ammunition in pockets coming from the
USA from time to time and charges them with firearms offences.
I highly doubt it. Maybe a spot check here and there by some
underpaid no-nothing. Or, (more likley?) they might rely on an
administrative paper trail to substitute for "real" security. For
example, they might "qualify" a certain vendor to deliver the sodas
after a background check of some sort, with greatly relaxed security

Pallets are security cleared wrapped in anti-tamper film. Whilst it is
just posisble someone will compromise the supply chain system it would
require a lot of effort and there are easier loopholes to target.
You want to know how much of my "stuff" the TSA agents (and airport
security - which is a different set of folks) went through before
granting me access to all the non-public areas?
Answer = NONE.

Usually they Xray anything that goes airside. Are you saying they didn't
do that? That would be a security breach error in the UK.
Although, they did provide an escort, much to their credit. (Which I
think had more to do with not knowing the layout of the place, more
that is was truly about security).

It is usually both. Many businesses have similar rules for accompanying
visitors to prevent industrial espionage.
---
And, for the hell of it, I just checked.
You can bring ice on board, as long as it's not liquid.
I rest my case.*

OK, technically, I guess the ice must be for the purpose of cooling
required medication, but you can see the loopholes.

There are always some loopholes, but it isn't helpful to draw attention
to them in public.
Not that it even matters, becasue the security check point cannot (and
will not) stop a dedicated terrorist.

It has discouraged them since 9/11 there have not been any successful
terror attacks on aircraft. There have been a couple of nasty close
calls where terrorists have boarded with explosives though and the most
recent toner cartridge bomb plot. UK is actually a lot more pragmatic
about the terrorist threat and just prior to the latest incident the BA
chairman was railing about some of the more insane US "security"
measures that are more street theatre than anything else.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/8091588/Airport-security-checks-could-be-relaxed.html

I believe we pay our airport security operators somewhat more than in
the USA and expect them to do their jobs thoroughly.
For that matter, it is not even required to visit the airport to bring
things to a screeching halt.

The bad guys have first mover advantage. That is why there are people
paid to look for the systemic weaknesses and fix them. You should not
bemoan the guys doing the drudge work for doing their job.

Sadly the US ones do tend to be obnoxious with it. I always got the
feeling that the ones at US immigration were all hoping to shoot someone
for failing to stand behind the red line.

Regards,
Martin Brown
 
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Jon Kirwan

Jan 1, 1970
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<snip>
Heathrow pulls people with live ammunition in pockets coming from the
USA from time to time and charges them with firearms offences.
<snip>

I can imagine.

A few years ago, I rushed out and caught my flight between
two international airports (both in the US) with 9 rifle
cartridges (loaded) in my coat pocket. I'd no idea, of
course, when I laid my coat down on the belt to pass through
the scanner system on my way down. And they didn't notice,
either. It was only when I arrived at my desk and was
checking my coat pocket for something else that I noticed
them.

It was funny because as I was doing this, several people from
the company who had picked me up at the airport and delivered
me were still talking with me, while I emptied my coat pocket
onto the table. Their faces were priceless.

Jon
 
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TheGlimmerMan

Jan 1, 1970
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And you expect me to believe a bunch of $12/hr rent-a-cops at the
airport sift through every can of soda looking for some security
threat?
Please....


Again, YOU are a goddamned idiot. Nobody EVER said that ANYBODY looks
through soda cans, IDIOT!

please indeed.

How can YOU be so utterly fucking stupid?
 
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TheGlimmerMan

Jan 1, 1970
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I'm sorry. I'm laughing way too hard to even attempt a reply.
You are making my ribs hurt. Stop it.


You're a goddamned idiot. I hope your ribs do hurt, but I hope it is
some fast acting cancer. That's what a dopey **** like you deserves.
 
T

TheGlimmerMan

Jan 1, 1970
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You must be what that call a professional sheep, huh?


That was a retarded remark. Come back when you can actually make
sense, idiot.
Do you honestly believe what you said? Seriously?

I work in a secure lab. I know what the protocols are.

You are an idiot. You do NOT know what the protocols are.
And look, it's not like I'm getting paid for my posts here.

You could never get paid for the retarded horseshit you put into print.
But if proof-reading them makes you feel better somehow, go for it.


I didn't proofread a goddamned thing. The point was that your retarded
ass doesn't proofread a damned thing either. The problem isn't your
proofreading though. After seeing the stupid responses, it is clear that
the problem is that you are simply too goddamned stupid to post anything
but dumb, retarded horseshit.
 
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TheGlimmerMan

Jan 1, 1970
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You have poor social skills.


You have zero capacity to understand social areas where humans
interact, which have to be protected from humans that are even less civil
than a retard like you is.
 
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Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
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Three or four years ago, I took a very nice, very expensive, corkscrew
and foil knife thru Phoenix' belt scanner.

Noticed it when I unpacked at my hotel in Rancho Bernardo. Panic :-(

Had the secretary at Zarlink mail it back to me :)

...Jim Thompson

About 7 or 8 years ago, I had a servant^H^H^H^H attendant bring a
Swiss Army knife thorough airport security in Paris for me. ;-)

Accidentally, of course.
 
M

Martin Brown

Jan 1, 1970
0
Three or four years ago, I took a very nice, very expensive, corkscrew
and foil knife thru Phoenix' belt scanner.

Yes. It is *really* annoying when they find something in your hand
baggage that you didn't know was there. I lost a jewellers screwdriver
(one of a set) that had cut its way into the lining of my camera bag.
Heathrow found it with pinpoint accuracy. I must have been through a
dozen or so airports that didn't. It was consigned to the sharps bin :(

I think they should provide the option of putting it in a Jiffy bag and
mailing it home. Lost a tiny Swiss penknife and a steel nail file the
same way. I would have paid airmail rates to get them back.
Noticed it when I unpacked at my hotel in Rancho Bernardo. Panic :-(

Had the secretary at Zarlink mail it back to me :)

...Jim Thompson

You were lucky that US airport "security" is so incompetent. OTOH it
isn't very encouraging about the quality of their Xray screening.

Hijacking an aircraft with a luxury wine opening device would be a bit
idiosyncratic, but a boxcutter would likely get through just as easily.

Regards,
Martin Brown
 
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hamilton

Jan 1, 1970
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I believe I saw a vending machine at an airport with just such a
function a couple of years back. It must not have been very
profitable, since I have not seen any recently.

As I understand it, passengers are often given the option to have
their offending item placed in with the checked luggage, but the delay
and cost of doing that is unattractive.

You would think that if customer service was the goal, giving a sealed
bag that the passenger can put their possessions into and pick them up
at the other end would be some much nicer than having the customer just
throw those things away.

Lighters, nail clippers, eye wash would not be in the hands of the
potential terrorist, and a further screening can be done if necessary.

The US is just not thinking customer service, its just a knee jerk
reaction that make past administrations feel better at our expense.

Passengers would then feel like the TSA is doing a real job and not just
wasting taxpayer money. ( or groping young woman and young boys)

hamilton
 
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Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Martin said:
You were lucky that US airport "security" is so incompetent. OTOH it
isn't very encouraging about the quality of their Xray screening.

Hijacking an aircraft with a luxury wine opening device would be a bit
idiosyncratic, but a boxcutter would likely get through just as easily.
I wonder if they know about ceramic knives?

Maybe TSA will wave you through if you simply don a swastika armband. >:->

Cheers!
Rich
 
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Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
mpm said:
Meanwhile the US Postal Service is in the red to the tune of several
billion dollars.
How difficult would it be to put a Priority Mail kisok next to the x-
ray machines?
That way, when people make mistakes, they have the option to mail
"whatever" back home.

Seems like an obvious market to me....

It will never happen - it makes entirely too much sense.

But I have heard of people who pack up all of their luggage and UPS or FEDEX
it to their destination, and fly practically naked.

The terrorists won on the day that the US government started strip-searching
American citizens.

Thanks,
Rich
 
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Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
I wonder if they know about ceramic knives?

Of course they do. AFAIUI, most 'ceramic' blade knives have enough
metal inserted in then handle (as a deliberate measure) so they will
be detected by even the old style metal detectors.

Also, nobody will again be able to hijack an airplane with a mere box
cutter, knitting needles or whatever- the passengers will take them
out, since the expected outcome of inaction is rather worse than it
was before 9/22. At least not for a very long time, maybe a generation
or two.
Maybe TSA will wave you through if you simply don a swastika armband. >:->

Professional courtesy?
Cheers!
Rich


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
It will never happen - it makes entirely too much sense.

But I have heard of people who pack up all of their luggage and UPS or FEDEX
it to their destination, and fly practically naked.

That, of course, has nothing to do with security scans, rather the additional
fee (an unadvertised cost) for checked baggage.
The terrorists won on the day that the US government started strip-searching
American citizens.

Don't know if "laughing their asses off" = "winning", but it's certainly not
going to help, either.
 
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Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich Grise wrote:

[snip]
But I have heard of people who pack up all of their luggage and UPS or
FEDEX it to their destination, and fly practically naked.

IIRC, there's a question on the customs form as to whether you've shipped
anything on ahead. At first, that makes sense. But then I thought, "Why
can't customs treat such a shipment as two separate events?" One, I ship a
parcel into the USA, with all the requisite documentation and duties paid.
Two, I travel with a small carry-on bag.

Of course they _could_, but why _should_ they?

Just for the sake of your privacy? LOL


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
Rich Grise wrote:

[snip]
But I have heard of people who pack up all of their luggage and UPS or
FEDEX it to their destination, and fly practically naked.

IIRC, there's a question on the customs form as to whether you've shipped
anything on ahead. At first, that makes sense. But then I thought, "Why
can't customs treat such a shipment as two separate events?" One, I ship a
parcel into the USA, with all the requisite documentation and duties paid.
Two, I travel with a small carry-on bag.

Many (most?) airlines charge for carry-ons, too.
 
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TheGlimmerMan

Jan 1, 1970
0
I wonder if they know about ceramic knives?

Most "ceramic" knives are supposed to have metal in the handle or in
the ceramic that makes them detectable.

The other thing is that it will get see in the carry on X-ray, so
carrying it is the only option which is another reason for the increased
scrutiny.
Maybe TSA will wave you through if you simply don a swastika armband. >:->


Only if it is an FOP armband.
 
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TheGlimmerMan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Except that breaching a seal isn't required to slip contraband into an
air cargo shipment.


Take note that I was referring to shipping containers, not ANY form of
"air cargo".

And NO, it would not "be easy to slip" ANYTHING into ANY container that
utilizes such a sealing system, if one was ever to be put into place.

Learn how to read. I never said anything about any currently existing
system, so your claim is pretty dumb on the face of it to start with.
 
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TheGlimmerMan

Jan 1, 1970
0
You are getting side tracked by the right-wing-nut agenda to keep
illegal aliens (instead of bombs) out of cargo. Bombs don't care if the
compartment is evacuated. Mexican construction workers or Chinese
laundry employees rarely blow up.


I am not "getting side tracked" by anything, you retarded ****.

Learn to read. I refer to container ship transport containers which get
placed onto truck frame rails and driven to their destinations.

You got bombs on the brain. Shut the **** up, and re-read what I
wrote. It is unrelated to the airport bullshit.
 
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TheGlimmerMan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sorry. The bomb in the container already blwe up in mid air. Nothing
left to unseal. Hint: I can build a pretty damned good bomb with crap
from my local hardware store. No need to breach customs security.

Hint: Learn to read, you retarded twit. You are almost as bad as
Sloman, except that I know you actually have a brain.
 
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