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Fake Square D Circuit Breakers (RECALL)

B

bud--

Jan 1, 1970
0
RFI-EMI-GUY said:

Thanks Joe.

Being paranoid, and since the source is not the CPSC, I looked at the
CPSC site and found the following recalls of apparently the same
counterfeit SquareD breakers:

5-2008
Specialty Lamp International of Deerfield Beach, Fla. (as above)
371,000 breakers
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08286.html

12-2007
North American Breaker Co. Inc. (NABCO), of Burbank, Calif.
50,000 breakers
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08151.html

10-2007
Connecticut Electric & Switch Mfg. Co. (Connecticut Electric), of
Puyallup, Wash
64,000 breakers
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08054.html

11-2006
Scott Electric Co. Inc., of Greensburg, Pa
30,000 breakers
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07036.html

Crossposted to alt.home.repair
 
R

RBM

Jan 1, 1970
0
bud-- said:
Thanks Joe.

Being paranoid, and since the source is not the CPSC, I looked at the CPSC
site and found the following recalls of apparently the same counterfeit
SquareD breakers:

5-2008
Specialty Lamp International of Deerfield Beach, Fla. (as above)
371,000 breakers
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08286.html

12-2007
North American Breaker Co. Inc. (NABCO), of Burbank, Calif.
50,000 breakers
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08151.html

10-2007
Connecticut Electric & Switch Mfg. Co. (Connecticut Electric), of
Puyallup, Wash
64,000 breakers
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08054.html

11-2006
Scott Electric Co. Inc., of Greensburg, Pa
30,000 breakers
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07036.html

Crossposted to alt.home.repair

Bud, has there been any determination that these counterfeit, breakers are
not made to the same specs as any other QO?
 
D

dpb

Jan 1, 1970
0
RBM wrote:
....
Bud, has there been any determination that these counterfeit, breakers are
not made to the same specs as any other QO?

No non-counterfeit recalls are there?

--
 
R

RBM

Jan 1, 1970
0
dpb said:
RBM wrote:
...

No non-counterfeit recalls are there?

--I read that there weren't any incidents with the counterfeit breakers,
so I'm wondering if they are not in fact, the same
 
D

dpb

Jan 1, 1970
0
Then how did they get a recall for failure to trip? If there were no
instances of failing to trip?

I can see making them retract them as counterfeits but that's not the
baliwick of CPSC; that would be a legal thingie as near as I can tell.

And, of course, they could well be "made to the same spec's" but that's
not _quite_ the same thing as performing to the same spec.

--
 
R

RBM

Jan 1, 1970
0
dpb said:
Then how did they get a recall for failure to trip? If there were no
instances of failing to trip?

I can see making them retract them as counterfeits but that's not the
baliwick of CPSC; that would be a legal thingie as near as I can tell.

And, of course, they could well be "made to the same spec's" but that's
not _quite_ the same thing as performing to the same spec.

OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits
that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to trip
 
D

dpb

Jan 1, 1970
0
RBM wrote:
....
OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits
that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to trip

I hadn't "heard" anything but that's the first sentence of the link in
the earlier posting...

--
 
R

RBM

Jan 1, 1970
0
dpb said:
RBM wrote:
...


I hadn't "heard" anything but that's the first sentence of the link in the
earlier posting...
Sure, now you're telling me I should read the links!!! I saw this
yesterday, and as so much crap comes across my screen, I didn't pay too much
attention to it
 
D

dpb

Jan 1, 1970
0
RBM said:
Sure, now you're telling me I should read the links!!! I saw this
yesterday, and as so much crap comes across my screen, I didn't pay too much
attention to it

Well, if you're going to pay enough attention to ask questions...

--
 
A

Andrew Gabriel

Jan 1, 1970
0
OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits
that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to trip

There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found
in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture
in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent
parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch.
 
D

David Nebenzahl

Jan 1, 1970
0
There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found
in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture
in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent
parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch.

So, a perverse thought crosses one's mind: would replacing one's
breakers with toggle switches be the equivalent of putting pennies in
fuse sockets in the olden days?
 
| In article <[email protected]>,
|>
|>> RBM wrote:
|>>>> RBM wrote:
|>>>> ...
|>>>>> Bud, has there been any determination that these counterfeit, breakers
|>>>>> are not made to the same specs as any other QO?
|>>>> No non-counterfeit recalls are there?
|>>>>
|>>>> --I read that there weren't any incidents with the counterfeit breakers,
|>>>> so I'm wondering if they are not in fact, the same
|>>
|>> Then how did they get a recall for failure to trip? If there were no
|>> instances of failing to trip?
|>>
|>> I can see making them retract them as counterfeits but that's not the
|>> baliwick of CPSC; that would be a legal thingie as near as I can tell.
|>>
|>> And, of course, they could well be "made to the same spec's" but that's
|>> not _quite_ the same thing as performing to the same spec.
|>
|> OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits
|> that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to trip
|
| There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found
| in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture
| in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent
| parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch.

How many people ever test the overcurrent aspect, anyway? I'm guessing one
of these must have failed somewhere somehow to have gotten noticed.
 
| On 5/30/2008 6:49 AM Andrew Gabriel spake thus:
|
|> In article <[email protected]>,
|>>
| >>
|>>> RBM wrote:
| >>>
| >>>>
|>>>>> RBM wrote:
|>>>>> ...
|>>>>>> Bud, has there been any determination that these counterfeit, breakers
|>>>>>> are not made to the same specs as any other QO?
|>>>>> No non-counterfeit recalls are there?
|>>>>>
|>>>>> --I read that there weren't any incidents with the counterfeit breakers,
|>>>>> so I'm wondering if they are not in fact, the same
|>>>
|>>> Then how did they get a recall for failure to trip? If there were no
|>>> instances of failing to trip?
|>>>
|>>> I can see making them retract them as counterfeits but that's not the
|>>> baliwick of CPSC; that would be a legal thingie as near as I can tell.
|>>>
|>>> And, of course, they could well be "made to the same spec's" but that's
|>>> not _quite_ the same thing as performing to the same spec.
|>>
|>> OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits
|>> that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to trip
|>
|> There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found
|> in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture
|> in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent
|> parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch.
|
| So, a perverse thought crosses one's mind: would replacing one's
| breakers with toggle switches be the equivalent of putting pennies in
| fuse sockets in the olden days?

Yes. BTW, they do make them ... switches that replace circuit breakers.
If you need a lot of switches in a circumstance where you don't need the
individual overcurrent protection, and need it in a more compact space
than could be had with a bunch of 2x4 boxes, then this might be the thing.
Imagine if you have a need to individually switch on and off 80 different
7 watt lights. Would you put in 10 sets of 4-gang boxes with duplex switches
in each, or put in an 84-slot panel and 80 switches? The latter might cost
more due to the big box. The latter might not fit so well.

I don't recall if the breakers are cheaper than switches, but perhaps the
economy of scale of production for breakers could do that.
 
A

Andrew Gabriel

Jan 1, 1970
0
| There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found
| in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture
| in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent
| parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch.

How many people ever test the overcurrent aspect, anyway? I'm guessing one
of these must have failed somewhere somehow to have gotten noticed.

AFAIK, they were discovered by manufacturers investigating how
their products were turning up on the market too cheaply and
undercutting the official distributors.
 
| In article <[email protected]>,
| [email protected] writes:
|>| There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found
|>| in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture
|>| in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent
|>| parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch.
|>
|> How many people ever test the overcurrent aspect, anyway? I'm guessing one
|> of these must have failed somewhere somehow to have gotten noticed.
|
| AFAIK, they were discovered by manufacturers investigating how
| their products were turning up on the market too cheaply and
| undercutting the official distributors.

Ah, that would do it, too.
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yes. BTW, they do make them ... switches that replace circuit breakers.
If you need a lot of switches in a circumstance where you don't need the
individual overcurrent protection, and need it in a more compact space
than could be had with a bunch of 2x4 boxes, then this might be the thing.
Imagine if you have a need to individually switch on and off 80 different
7 watt lights. Would you put in 10 sets of 4-gang boxes with duplex switches
in each, or put in an 84-slot panel and 80 switches? The latter might cost
more due to the big box. The latter might not fit so well.

I don't recall if the breakers are cheaper than switches, but perhaps the
economy of scale of production for breakers could do that.


My heat pump has a switch in circuit breaker format in the disconnect
box on the side of the house. A breaker isn't necessary out there, as
the branch is protected in the main panel and nothing else is on it.
 
R

Roy

Jan 1, 1970
0
From: [email protected]
In alt.engineering.electrical Andrew Gabriel
|       [email protected] writes:
  In alt.engineering.electrical Andrew Gabriel
UK about counterfeits being found | in other parts of Europe (but not as
yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture | in a trade magazine shows one of them
opened up. There are no overcurrent | parts inside, and the toggle is
just a plain switch.
How many people ever test the overcurrent aspect, anyway? I'm guessing
one of these must have failed somewhere somehow to have gotten noticed.

| AFAIK, they were discovered by manufacturers investigating how | their
products were turning up on the market too cheaply and | undercutting
the official distributors.

Ah, that would do it, too.
--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam,
snip<
-------------------

I read that other post where it exploded
~ Ouch ~ It would seem Top Name Brand Manufacturers don't (shouldn't)
farm out too much work for a reason.......then again....who knows maybe
I've installed a few without knowing it was a knock off., They all seem
so funny looking at times, though I try to by always from reputable
supply houses and such };(

They should've branded & licensed them "Electriv" ®™ and sold them
as thus };) I'll be expecting royalties from this one }:)

Roy Q.T. ~ US/NCU ~ E.E. Technician
[have tools, will travel]
 
| From: [email protected]
| In alt.engineering.electrical Andrew Gabriel
| <[email protected]>,
| | ? ? ? [email protected] writes:
| ??In alt.engineering.electrical Andrew Gabriel
| UK about counterfeits being found | in other parts of Europe (but not as
| yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture | in a trade magazine shows one of them
| opened up. There are no overcurrent | parts inside, and the toggle is
| just a plain switch.
| How many people ever test the overcurrent aspect, anyway? I'm guessing
| one of these must have failed somewhere somehow to have gotten noticed.
|
| | AFAIK, they were discovered by manufacturers investigating how | their
| products were turning up on the market too cheaply and | undercutting
| the official distributors.
|
| Ah, that would do it, too.
| --
| |WARNING: Due to extreme spam,
| snip<
| -------------------
|
| I read that other post where it exploded
| ~ Ouch ~ It would seem Top Name Brand Manufacturers don't (shouldn't)
| farm out too much work for a reason.......then again....who knows maybe
| I've installed a few without knowing it was a knock off., They all seem
| so funny looking at times, though I try to by always from reputable
| supply houses and such };(
|
| They should've branded & licensed them "Electriv" ?? and sold them
| as thus };) I'll be expecting royalties from this one }:)
|
| Roy Q.T. ~ US/NCU ~ E.E. Technician
| [have tools, will travel]

Could you separate what you are quoting and what you are saying in some way
so I can tell what is what when I try to read it?
 
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