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Flexible cable for generator backfeed use?

Switches are still required. Fuses are not load-break devices and not to be
installed without a switch ahead of them. Standard wiring rules.
I KNOW it is not to code, but as there are no spare pull-outs, it is
ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE to connect it to backfeed. You would have to pull
another fuse block - one that is not designed to be easily pulled.

It is not just a fuse being pulled - it is a fuse holder block
(disconnect for 220 circuit)
 
D

Dave Hinz

Jan 1, 1970
0
I KNOW it is not to code, but as there are no spare pull-outs, it is
ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE to connect it to backfeed. You would have to pull
another fuse block - one that is not designed to be easily pulled.

Almost impossible, perhaps. It's not your life in the balance though,
is it. What's the big freaking deal about spending a few bucks to make
it safe, legal, and to code? I'd rather drop a bit of cash and not
have to risk killing someone.
 
V

Vaughn

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dave Hinz said:
Almost impossible, perhaps. It's not your life in the balance though,
is it. What's the big freaking deal about spending a few bucks to make
it safe, legal, and to code? I'd rather drop a bit of cash and not
have to risk killing someone.

I am actually part of the choir here, but still...please don't preach. We
have been over this ground a million times.

Actually, as I recall, the single pullout with two possible postions was
once a perfectly accepted method of power transfer...may still be.

Vaughn
 
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Richard

Jan 1, 1970
0
You're right, of course, but idiots who insist on doing things that are
antisocial

Don't tell my neighbors that. They love my generator too. I have enough
juice to run them a line.
and arrogant

Talk about goddamned hypocrisy with an asshole statement like that!!
Amazing. Unsafe,

Only to the uneducated and simple minded such as yourself. I understand
your need to lash out about things you haven't the slightest comprehension
about.
Hope to hell you never kill someone with your backfeed setup,

Believe it or not, there are people out there who actually have a clue.
Clearly, you are not one or you wouldn't have your panties in such a bunch.
Nobody said that.

Welcome to the thread. Obviously you haven't read shit in it or you
wouldn't have made such stupid comment. Well, this wasn't your first.


I enjoy fucking with mental midgets like you. I'll keep playing with your
stupidity all day if you like.
 
R

Richard

Jan 1, 1970
0
It was as polite as your last post. ie - not at all.

Boo hoo. Cry me a river.
 
R

Richard

Jan 1, 1970
0
Don't tell them that. They know it all. They'll even tell you so!
 
R

Richard

Jan 1, 1970
0
Almost impossible, perhaps. It's not your life in the balance though,
is it. What's the big freaking deal about spending a few bucks to make
it safe, legal, and to code?

Because it's not necessary, a waste of time and money. But you already
knew that.
 
D

Dave Hinz

Jan 1, 1970
0
Don't tell my neighbors that. They love my generator too. I have enough
juice to run them a line.
Talk about goddamned hypocrisy with an asshole statement like that!!
Yawn.
Only to the uneducated and simple minded such as yourself. I understand
your need to lash out about things you haven't the slightest comprehension
about.

It has the potential to kill someone, because you're being stubborn and
cheap.
Believe it or not, there are people out there who actually have a clue.
Clearly, you are not one or you wouldn't have your panties in such a bunch.

There's undie bundelage going on here, sparky, but it's not on this end
of the conversation.
Welcome to the thread. Obviously you haven't read shit in it or you
wouldn't have made such stupid comment. Well, this wasn't your first.


Yawn again.
I enjoy fucking with mental midgets like you. I'll keep playing with your
stupidity all day if you like.

Sorry, you'll have to find someone else to waste their time on you.
Good luck at your trial, and I hope the prosecutor finds this thread to
show it was knowing, willing disregard for human safety.

<plonk>
 
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Richard

Jan 1, 1970
0

Just like I thought. You didn't have the balls to put me in your
killfilter like you eluded to in your last post. Your little *plonk*
statement was all smoke. Just like everything else you spew.

LOL! What a loon!

Yea, we've heard that before. The best part is now you are going to try
your damndest not to reply to me again since I've called you on your BS.
You haven't killfiled me. You're reading my every word. Why? Because
you're obsessed with this foolish crap.

So, do I get the last word? Do I get to let the world know that you are a
child just looking for a fight where one doesn't exist?

Grow a set, Dave. Come back when you have a clue.

I'll be enjoying my comfortable home, with full power, during the next
storm that rolls through while all the linemen remain safe and comfy in
their bucket trucks.
 
R

Richard

Jan 1, 1970
0
I clipped the comments out of Richard's messages and pasted them below.
Some appear contradictory. And when valid feedback is provided, albeit
sometimes not with a full explaination, there are interesting responses from
Richard.

Hey, shit-4-branez. Let me clear it up for you with 4 simple facts.

1) I have a generator.
2) I b-a-c-k-f-e-e-d my main panel with it.
3) It's SAFE
4) Nobody can or will get fried down the line.

Simple enough for ya? Probably not.
 
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daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
Richard said:
Hey, shit-4-branez. Let me clear it up for you with 4 simple facts.

1) I have a generator.
2) I b-a-c-k-f-e-e-d my main panel with it.
3) It's SAFE
4) Nobody can or will get fried down the line.

Simple enough for ya? Probably not.

You forgot number 5

5) It's illegal, but you don't care.

daestrom
 
R

Richard

Jan 1, 1970
0
You forgot number 5

5) It's illegal, but you don't care.

It's illegal to drive above the posted speed limit too. Please don't waste
everyone's time by saying you've never done that either.

You, easily, endanger more people by speeding than you do by backfeeding a
generator (assuming you don't pull the main). And, as other's have said
more than once, the linemen have procedures to follow to protect them
against such situations so they don't get fried.

I am in control of disconnecting my main. When you speed, you are not in
control of the action/reaction of others.

The point being, if you're hung up on this just because "it's illegal" -
you need to wake up and face reality. It's illegal to spit on the sidewalk
too. It's illegal to do a lot of things that people will continue to do
with no harm to others.

The bottom line all along has been that it's 100% safe with this situation.
All your assinine preaching will not change that.

Care to continue to beat the, long dead, horse? I'm game.
 
R

RF Dude

Jan 1, 1970
0
This is fun.... poking a stick at someone who likes to show their talent to
everyone.

I have shit on my brains....and I do generators for a living... so the shit
that is on my brain certainly ain't on Richards... and he keeps proving it
to the group.

I'll tell my clients that "Richard" said it was SAFE, so they shouldn't have
a problem with this approach. I'll tell that to the electrical inspector
too. I'll even show them your email for proof and ask the inspector if it
is "Simple enough for ya". I'll try that line on the HR representative who
will be the next to want to talk to me. Then the HR rep will ask me who is
accountable? Who is "Richard"? Lets hire Richard.

Richard, stop trolling for answers when you already have them made up in
your mind.

Enough said. You can repeat what you have already stated which you are
likely to do... and think of a few more names to call others.... You
probably have the same attitude with others... police, doctors... what do
they know... Richard knows best. Have fun with your generator. And I'll
have fun with the hundreds I look after.
 
R

Richard

Jan 1, 1970
0
This is fun.... poking a stick at someone who likes to show their talent to
everyone.

I have shit on my brains.

'Nuff said. No sense in reading beyond this. Hey, at least you admit it.

It's good to know that you lack the comprehension in order to realize there
actually may be a way that works that ISN'T yours.....*sigh*
 
D

Dale Farmer

Jan 1, 1970
0
daestrom said:
Our utility, NationalGrid (formerly NiagaraMohawk) has a 'little' trailer of
a mockup of a couple of poles and typical service entrance they use for
training various volunteer fire departments, rescue squads and such. They
come to your parking lot, set things up, have a *real* line crew go through
all the safety precautions and stuff.

Then they show the fireman how a fireman's 'rubber' boot is absolutely
*useless* for electrical protection by drawing a 4160 arc thru it to ground.
They put a live line across a 'car' (and old klunker they bring with them)
and show the arc when they attempt to ground the frame so rescue squads can
understand the risks of touching a car trapped by a live line.

And one little part of the demonstration is a little 3000 watt homelite
portable generator fed into the 'residential service' panel. They
disconnect the normal supply, and with just this little portable unit
running, supplying a couple of light-bulbs in the 'service panel', and
backfeeding to the 'pole pig' and such. Then they proceed to use a hot
stick to try and connect a ground clamp on the 4160 line. As you might
expect, the 'arc and sparks' are impressive (when seen from a distance).
The lineman was able to draw a couple of feet long arc and sustain it for
almost 30 seconds while the generator just buzzed along.

Depending where a break is, and the surrounding T&D lines, a 'little
portable generator' can be quite a hazard. And all it takes is one screw up
and the homeowner will find themselves paying lawyers for years. That's why
the NEC and CEC require the types of disconnects they do.

daestrom

I think that the solution for these is to prosecute the illegal generator
users for murder and sending them to jail for a bunch of years. It wasn't
an accident, they knowingly and negligently hooked up the thing.
--Dale
 
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daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dale Farmer said:
I think that the solution for these is to prosecute the illegal
generator
users for murder and sending them to jail for a bunch of years. It
wasn't
an accident, they knowingly and negligently hooked up the thing.

Only a couple of problems here. Chances are good that it wouldn't be a
lineman that is killed, but rather someone else. And if that someone dies
from electrocution from a downed power line, hard to prove whether it was
utility electrons, or home-generator electrons. Then prove that the
arrogant home-generator owner *knew* he had violated code, with total
disregard for the safety of others. Get that far, and you've got a case
(for manslaughter??)

daestrom
 
D

daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
Solar Flare said:
Everybody driving a car fits that same bill. They knew they could cause an
accident and still knowing continued to power the vehicle.

Not exactly. Driving a car is not a flagrant violation of laws enacted to
ensure safety. And driving a car doesn't result in an accident all the
time.

But *if* you have an accident, and *if* its a direct result of willfully
acting in an unsafe manner, and *if* it results in a death, then *yes* you
can be charged with 'vehicular manslaughter'. It does happen on occasion
with a repeat DWI offender that kills someone while driving drunk.

daestrom
 
R

Richard

Jan 1, 1970
0
Not exactly.

Yes. Exactly.
Driving a car is not a flagrant violation of laws enacted to
ensure safety.

Depends on HOW you drive. Just like it depends on HOW you take precautions
to insure your generator is correctly connected.
And driving a car doesn't result in an accident all the
time.

Neither does using a generator. Not even close.

As a matter of fact, would you like to compare how many multiples more
people die from car accidents versus generator accidents?
 
Yes. Exactly.


Depends on HOW you drive. Just like it depends on HOW you take precautions
to insure your generator is correctly connected.


Neither does using a generator. Not even close.

As a matter of fact, would you like to compare how many multiples more
people die from car accidents versus generator accidents?


Matters not ONE IOTA.
It is ILLEGAL in both Canada and the USA to backfeed your panel from a
generator without a positive interlock/lockout - regardless how safe
you may feel it is. Whether you kill someone or not doesn't change
anything.

Driving a car 100 MPH in most places in Canada and the USA is also
illegal - whether you are involved in an accident or not. So is
rolling through a stop sign or running a red light. Driving it at the
speed limit and obeying signals is NOT illegal - and nor is feeding
your panel from a generator WITH A POSITIVE INTERLOCK which prevents
the ouside world from being connected to your genset.
 
R

Richard

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rather funny that you now have conceded that your original points were
wrong. Remember, you claimed "What I'm doing is 100% legal and safe."


So it's not 100% legal and you've tried to change the subject. And now
you state it's not 100% safe. Because as you say, it depends. If it
was 100% safe, you wouldn't need that "it depends".

You just keep on talking and talking and never say a thing. You try way
too hard.

Guess what? I had the generator running over the weekend for a few hours
due to a local storm, BACKFEEDING the house nicely.

Once again, nobody got fried.

Care to continue making completely irrelevant "arguments" ?

Go ahead, fool.
 
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