heat pumps

[Fred Bloggs]

All Thompson succeeded in doing is getting a file opened opened on
himself, said file being deposited in the same cabinet with the bunch on
the lookout for flying saucers.

 

[Joseph2k]

sci.electronics.design, To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-
Site.com says...






I like Glenn Beck's choice for the title of his book "An
Inconvenient Book". ;-)

Heat pumps have their uses and their limitations, especially ambient
air
types. They are rather limited in highly variable climate regions,
from
freezing to over 100 seasonally.

I am rather more disparaging of Al Bore and, "an inconvenient fraud".
General global temperature variations are recorded facts. They do
seem
to be related to Milankovich cycles and solar variation cycles at
least as
well as everything else.

JosephKK

 

[Jim Thompson]

All Thompson succeeded in doing is getting a file opened opened on
himself, said file being deposited in the same cabinet with the bunch on
the lookout for flying saucers.

Bloggs, You are as ignorant as Slowman.

I do have personal friends that are field agents in the FBI.

And I DO advise them of nut-cases that might be potential problems for
the US.

Where is it that you work, Fred ?

...Jim Thompson

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Bloggs, You are as ignorant as Slowman.

I do have personal friends that are field agents in the FBI.

And I DO advise them of nut-cases that might be potential problems for
the US.

Where is it that you work, Fred ?

...Jim Thompson

I live right across the street from their HQ here. Tell them to come on
over, I will be happy to talk with them. You do know that making a
report with malicious intent does have serious criminal and civil legal
consequences?

 

[Jim Thompson]

I live right across the street from their HQ here. Tell them to come on
over, I will be happy to talk with them. You do know that making a
report with malicious intent does have serious criminal and civil legal
consequences?

I don't make "report(s) with malicious intent", but I do report anyone
with a clear anti-American stance.

Go sit in a corner and suck your thumb... I have more lawyers than you
(or Slowman) have friends ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[[email protected]]

I don't make "report(s) with malicious intent", but I do report anyone
with a clear anti-American stance.

I think he's right here - his intent was sincere, but sufficiently
misguided that his lawyers could have a very profitable time trying to
stop him being locked up for being dangerously out of touch with
reality.

Go sit in a corner and suck your thumb... I have more lawyers than you
(or Slowman) have friends ;-)

But they obviously aen't your friends, otherwise they would long ago
have advised you to stop behaving like a dememented old lady, seeing
terrorists under every bed.

A lawyer would certainly have a enjoyable time reviewing my output on
this user group (at $200 per hour, or whatever they cost these days)
to establish whether what Jim sees as an anti-American stance is
genuinely dangerous to the United States, or merely critical of its
current administration.

There are many people with whom I share my critical stance - Naomi
Klein's "The Shock Doctrine" (ISBN 978-1-846-14028-0) is merely the
most recent of a long series of criticisms of U.S. foreign and
domestic policy - Stephen Decatur's toast to "My country, right or
wrong" is one of the earliest.

http://www.angelfire.com/bc/RPPS/revolution_movies/decatur.htm

Jim and his pig-ignorant right wing friends would seem to want to
purify the world - Pinochet style - in order to be able to prosecute
their dim-witted plans without having to listen to pesky well-informed
criticism.

Oddly enough, this probably doesn't qualify as "malicious intent", any
more than did Hilter's noble plan to "improve" the German gene pool by
excluding the genes of some of its brightest citizens. It is entirely
demented, but not the sort of florid dementia that gets you locked up
in a lunatic asylum.

 

[Richard Henry]

I don't make "report(s) with malicious intent", but I do report anyone
with a clear anti-American stance.

Reporting people to the FBI for expressing their opinion is decidedly
anti-American.

Where should I send my report to?

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

Of course not, I was just having fun with the "Al Gore School of
Consensus Science" ;-)

I don't know about that 'fun' part. I missed the smiley in your original
post.

Unfortunately, quite a few people seem to skip over the facts and go
right to the politics (or religion) when they make what should be
economic or technical decisions.

This is what I really miss about the old, pro business GOP. Back in the
old days, if I hired a designer/engineer to do a job, I could be certain
that I'd get the best solution for the problem. If that solution
happened to come from a company owned by a black, lesbian, vegan,
atheist Democrat, that didn't matter. We'd find it. Today, I have to
wonder whether some preliminary filter has been applied to select
products only from a list of 'friends'. That is: those who go to Our
Church, vote for Our Candidate, match Our Skin Color, etc. The problem
is that the optimum solution may belong to one not on that list and,
unencumbered by such nonsense, my competitor is likely to find it before
my designer does.

Businesses don't usually collapse in flames, like Enron did. More
likely, they die bit by bit. Every year, they do a few percent less than
the competition. Eventually, there's not enough money coming in the door
to make it viable anymore. Or, on a macroeconomic scale, the dollars
coming in aren't worth what they used to be. Its bad enough when this
happens due to factors beyond one's control. But its insane to turn
opportunities away just because they don't arise from within ones own
narrow little comfort zone.

Jim, are you going to be turning DoD work away when Hillary is elected?

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Reporting people to the FBI for expressing their opinion is decidedly
anti-American.

Where should I send my report to?

To Bloggs. He can just walk it across the street for you.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

All Thompson succeeded in doing is getting a file opened opened on ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
himself, said file being deposited in the same cabinet with the bunch on
the lookout for flying saucers.

Do you stutter in real life, or just on USENET?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Jim Thompson]

used to work in a cmmercial bldg that had a propane unit that fired when it
needed to provide heat, and in summer it fired when AC called for cooling

as a 17 year old, it mystified me how a fire could provide cooling!

bldg was 60 x 120 feet single floor with basement, unit never failed to
provide!

[snip]

There's an ammonia cycle that works quite nicely that way. Banned now
in the US by leftist weenies... (1) it's too efficient and (2) it's
"dangerous" ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[GregS]

used to work in a cmmercial bldg that had a propane unit that fired when it
needed to provide heat, and in summer it fired when AC called for cooling

as a 17 year old, it mystified me how a fire could provide cooling!

bldg was 60 x 120 feet single floor with basement, unit never failed to
provide!

[snip]

There's an ammonia cycle that works quite nicely that way. Banned now
in the US by leftist weenies... (1) it's too efficient and (2) it's
"dangerous" ;-)

...Jim Thompson

I remember gas refridgerators. A Ham friend had a full size bus he
converted to a mobile home Had one of those big gas units. Had to keep the
thing level. I also remember staying at my grandmothers, and a neighbor came
in to gas up the electric fridge. It was awful smelling the chlorine gas. We threw out
an old clunker garage fridge one day. The garbage man got a whiff of
the chlorine gas as we wached them throw it in the truck. He backed off !!

greg

 

[Jim Thompson]

used to work in a cmmercial bldg that had a propane unit that fired when it
needed to provide heat, and in summer it fired when AC called for cooling

as a 17 year old, it mystified me how a fire could provide cooling!

bldg was 60 x 120 feet single floor with basement, unit never failed to
provide!

[snip]

There's an ammonia cycle that works quite nicely that way. Banned now
in the US by leftist weenies... (1) it's too efficient and (2) it's
"dangerous" ;-)

...Jim Thompson

I remember gas refridgerators. A Ham friend had a full size bus he
converted to a mobile home Had one of those big gas units. Had to keep the
thing level. I also remember staying at my grandmothers, and a neighbor came
in to gas up the electric fridge. It was awful smelling the chlorine gas. We threw out
an old clunker garage fridge one day. The garbage man got a whiff of
the chlorine gas as we wached them throw it in the truck. He backed off !!

greg

Except it wasn't chlorine, it was ammonia something-or-other gas.

...Jim Thompson

 

[Ecnerwal]

There's an ammonia cycle that works quite nicely that way. Banned now
in the US by leftist weenies... (1) it's too efficient and (2) it's
"dangerous" ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Primo example of why not to be a winger, whether left or right: makes
you blind to facts.

Ammonia cycle is neither "too efficient" or even "more efficient than
compressor cycles typically available" - in fact, many off-grid folks
find that they use less propane to run a generator to run an efficient
electric fridge than they did to run a Serval gas fridge.

It's also not "banned", as the vast number of ammonia fridges in RVs and
the like should easily attest. Not to mention all the ice rinks, a
couple of luge/bobsled runs, etc. It is, in fact, "dangerous", to the
extent that the US Navy used a less efficient and troublesomely
high-pressure CO2 cycle back before the development of fluorocarbons in
order NOT to have ammonia on-board ships. The choice of when to use it
is often influenced by practical considerations including scale and
needed safety precautions. The cheapness of the refrigerant is a major
factor in large-scale operations.

I'm considering implementing some solar-power A/C using ammonia cycle
(or possibly lithium chloride), but if I do, all the ammonia will be
outside the house in its own building, and I'll eat the efficiency cost
of a heat exchanger to some non-noxious fluid for transferring cold into
the house. With "free heat" it makes sense - if burning fuel, it does
not.

 

[Jim Thompson]

Primo example of why not to be a winger, whether left or right: makes
you blind to facts.

Ammonia cycle is neither "too efficient" or even "more efficient than
compressor cycles typically available" - in fact, many off-grid folks
find that they use less propane to run a generator to run an efficient
electric fridge than they did to run a Serval gas fridge.

It's also not "banned", as the vast number of ammonia fridges in RVs and
the like should easily attest. Not to mention all the ice rinks, a
couple of luge/bobsled runs, etc. It is, in fact, "dangerous", to the
extent that the US Navy used a less efficient and troublesomely
high-pressure CO2 cycle back before the development of fluorocarbons in
order NOT to have ammonia on-board ships. The choice of when to use it
is often influenced by practical considerations including scale and
needed safety precautions. The cheapness of the refrigerant is a major
factor in large-scale operations.

I'm considering implementing some solar-power A/C using ammonia cycle
(or possibly lithium chloride), but if I do, all the ammonia will be
outside the house in its own building, and I'll eat the efficiency cost
of a heat exchanger to some non-noxious fluid for transferring cold into
the house. With "free heat" it makes sense - if burning fuel, it does
not.

I recall correctly (;-) that Servel (not "Serval") ran quite nicely on
a pilot light sized flame.

http://www.recall-warnings.com/cpsc-content-98-98145.html

I also think that ammonia cycle units ARE banned from residential use.

...Jim Thompson

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:12:57 -0700, Jim Thompson

[snip]

I also think that ammonia cycle units ARE banned from residential use.

Make that "ammonia cycle A/C units".

...Jim Thompson

 

[Richard Henry]

used to work in a cmmercial bldg that had a propane unit that fired when it
needed to provide heat, and in summer it fired when AC  called for cooling

as a 17 year old, it  mystified me how a fire could provide cooling!

bldg was 60  x 120 feet  single floor  with basement,  unit neverfailed to
provide!

[snip]

There's an ammonia cycle that works quite nicely that way.  Banned now
in the US by leftist weenies... (1) it's too efficient and (2) it's
"dangerous" ;-)

Really? Banned where, and by whom?

http://www.aboutammoniarefrigeration.com/aarquestions_history.cfm

 

[Martin Brown]

Really?  Banned where, and by whom?

http://www.aboutammoniarefrigeration.com/aarquestions_history.cfm- Hide quoted text -

It would make pretty good sense to ban it for domestic use. It has
killed too many people by leaking.
Not only is the stuff toxic and corrosive but it also forms an
explosive mixture at 15% by volume in air.

Industrially it is still widely used - although anhydrous ammonia is a
pretty nasty working fluid. I recall a big plant making hollow
cylinder ice cubes in bulk each the size of a man - the flywheel for
the compressor about 32' diameter. The smell of ammonia was ever
present. US OSHA log around 6-10 ammonia refridgeration release
accidents and a couple of fatalities most years. See for example:

http://dhfs.wisconsin.gov/eh/HSEES/PDFfiles/AmmoniaAccidentSumm.pdf

Most of the fatalities are down to bad working procedures, poor
maintainence and/or inadequate safety training.

Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

But it's not.

Exactly. And that is what the telecoms feared Gore and his
'superhighway' folks were up to.

All the backbone providers, all the portals, all the
ISP's, are for-profit corporations. And most of the free stuff is paid
for by advertising.

In this country, yes.

The internet is not a public utility.

Not in this country.

If you admire public utilities, go stand in line at your local DMV.

Or get broadband service in countries where it IS a public utility.
Funny. Many of these very countries have much higher rates of broadband
penetration than we do. And its cheaper as well.

 

[Jim Thompson]

[snip]

If you admire public utilities, go stand in line at your local DMV.

Or get broadband service in countries where it IS a public utility.
Funny. Many of these very countries have much higher rates of broadband
penetration than we do. And its cheaper as well.

"cheaper"?? Everything is cheaper in higher-taxed countries, isn't it
?

...Jim Thompson