# HELP: halogen vs energy-saving light bulb.... woes :S

K

#### KevinGPO

Jan 1, 1970
0
I need some help and advice. I just moved into a new expensive flat. I
am trying to save money as I am low on income. I noticed that my entire
flat is illuminated by halogen light bulbs. Every single light bulb
socket in the ceilings are halogen bulb sockets. I know that halogen
light bulbs uses 10x more electricity/energy than conventional/old
light bulbs. Does anyone know the easiest way to replace the halogen
bulb sockets to be able to use the conventional/old light bulbs? Does
there exist a convertor?

To save some money I have taken all but one halogen bulb out from each
room. However I still don't like the sight of halogen light bulbs. I
prefer installing "energy saving" light bulbs but I do not want to use
floor/table lamps. There are now holes with dangling wires from where
the halogen light bulbs used to be. The wires are the halogen sockets.

R

#### Rheilly Phoull

Jan 1, 1970
0
KevinGPO said:
I need some help and advice. I just moved into a new expensive flat. I
am trying to save money as I am low on income. I noticed that my entire
flat is illuminated by halogen light bulbs. Every single light bulb
socket in the ceilings are halogen bulb sockets. I know that halogen
light bulbs uses 10x more electricity/energy than conventional/old
light bulbs. Does anyone know the easiest way to replace the halogen
bulb sockets to be able to use the conventional/old light bulbs? Does
there exist a convertor?

To save some money I have taken all but one halogen bulb out from each
room. However I still don't like the sight of halogen light bulbs. I
prefer installing "energy saving" light bulbs but I do not want to use
floor/table lamps. There are now holes with dangling wires from where
the halogen light bulbs used to be. The wires are the halogen sockets.
Are you saying a halogen bulb of say 20W uses 200W ?

B

#### Bill Kearney

Jan 1, 1970
0
KevinGPO said:
I know that halogen light bulbs uses 10x more electricity/energy
than conventional/old light bulbs.

Except they don't. Check the wattage.
Does anyone know the easiest way to replace the halogen
bulb sockets to be able to use the conventional/old light bulbs? Does
there exist a convertor?

You need to better describe the lamp sockets. If they're low voltage cans
with transformers in the assembly then you'll have to replace the entire
assembly.

N

#### [email protected]

Jan 1, 1970
0
KevinGPO said:
... Every single light bulb socket in the ceilings are halogen bulb sockets.
I know that halogen light bulbs uses 10x more electricity/energy than
conventional/old light bulbs.

No, but they might use 4X more than compact fluorescents.
Does anyone know the easiest way to replace the halogen bulb sockets
to be able to use the conventional/old light bulbs?

I replaced 150 W halogens with 14 W CFs in some art-deco church wall sconce
light fixtures with large semi-circular frosted glass shades beneath by
removing the metal fire-prevention grid above each bulb (which had reduced
the light output a lot), then unscrewing the halogen socket and removing it
and its pigtails and wirenuts to its feed wires and then adding a $2 black plastic medium base bulb socket, wirenutting its 6" pigtails to the original feed wires. Each socket had a metal tab with a hole for a sheet-metal screw to attach it to the metal back of the fixture, after I wrapped the socket with foil tape so it didn't look dark through the shade. I modified only 1 of 8 fixtures first, then invited the building committee in to guess which one. They studied hard, but nobody guessed right So then they became angry because I had fooled them and touched the building without their permission, and then finally gave in and allowed me modify the rest of the fixtures, at my expense, with faint thanks. Nick T #### [email protected] Jan 1, 1970 0 "Are you saying a halogen bulb of say 20W uses 200W ? " That appears to be what he is saying, and as far as I know, it's not true. In fact, here in the US, halogen bulbs that can replace std screw in light bulbs are marketed as giving more light output for the same wattage. The difference isn't great, maybe 10-15% or so more light output according to the label. But the point is halogens are generally at least as good as regular light bulbs, if not better in terms of energy usage. P #### Palindrâ˜»me Jan 1, 1970 0 Rheilly said: Are you saying a halogen bulb of say 20W uses 200W ? I think possibly the OP is saying that an energy saving lamp with an equivalent light output to a 20W halogen will use rather less electricity. Piggybacking, sorry! But:, if the dangling wires are from a 12V transformer, then it might be possible to add a rectifier and feed it to a 12V fluorescent light fitting - of the type intended for boats, caravans, etc. How many years it would take to recover the cost, I wouldn't like to think about. if the wires are mains, then it might be possible to connect a standard lampholder and use it with an energy saving lamp. Just mentioning those as ideas. If it were me in that situation, I think I would have left things as they were but use them sparingly - maybe taking out a few lamps, rather than complete fittings. Wires dangling fron ceilings upsets people. But then, I quite like table lamps. Nothing quite like the sight and sound of a clear-glass paraffin (kerosene?) mantle lamp or two, a good fire in the fireplace and a big thick rug in front of the fire... sorry, mind is wandering.. D #### default Jan 1, 1970 0 I need some help and advice. I just moved into a new expensive flat. I am trying to save money as I am low on income. I noticed that my entire flat is illuminated by halogen light bulbs. Every single light bulb socket in the ceilings are halogen bulb sockets. I know that halogen light bulbs uses 10x more electricity/energy than conventional/old light bulbs. Does anyone know the easiest way to replace the halogen bulb sockets to be able to use the conventional/old light bulbs? Does there exist a convertor? Halogen bulbs burn hotter and are more efficient than conventional tungsten/inert gas bulbs. Only 5% more efficient . . . Here in the states, we have Edison base (medium screw base) bulbs for most lighting (including retrofit halogen lamps). What do you have, "bi pin" halogen lamps in halogen fixtures? If you mean "candelabra" style lamp bases (smaller screw base) there are new compact fluorescent lamps out that replace them directly. To save some money I have taken all but one halogen bulb out from each room. However I still don't like the sight of halogen light bulbs. I prefer installing "energy saving" light bulbs but I do not want to use floor/table lamps. There are now holes with dangling wires from where the halogen light bulbs used to be. The wires are the halogen sockets. Energy saving compact fluorescent lamps are ~5 X more efficient than conventional incandescent lamps. Distributed in a "standard" Edison (screw) base version and a smaller candelabra screw base lamp here. The new(er) compact fluorescent lamps have only been in the stores for a few months here. Sylvania/Osram brand. They have them in 7 Watt /280 lumen versions and 13 Watt 600 lumen types. Unlike the spiral or serpentine lamps, these have a small glass "globe" and the whole globe lights evenly. They start instantly too (40 milliseconds or so). The globe is bullet shaped to replace chandelier style lamps. B #### buffalobill Jan 1, 1970 0 lots of halogens are offered for replacement by LED's these days. check your voltage of your bulbs, the base style, and the wattage, and have a look at eBay for ideas if the bulbs are just for hallway lighting. also: to correct the energy usage information: "Tungsten-Halogen Incandescent Lamps A tungsten-halogen lamp is an incandescent lamp with gases from the halogen family sealed inside the bulb. It has similar light output to a regular incandescent bulb while using up to 40 percent less power. Although tungsten-halogen lamps are more expensive to buy, they last two to four times longer than conventional incandescents. Tungsten-halogen lighting provides excellent colour rendering and gives off a whiter light than conventional incandescent bulbs. Tungsten-halogen lamps can be used indoors and outdoors and are suitable for gardens and marking pathways. These lamps can be dimmed, although they should occasionally be used at full power to keep the bulb from darkening. Tungsten-halogen technology is available in several lamp types. The standard bulb is similar in size and shape to a conventional incandescent. In some wattages, these bulbs can save about 15 percent of the energy used by a conventional incandescent. Other tungsten-halogen bulbs can produce more light than a standard incandescent with the same wattage." quoted from here: http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/publications...Household_Lighting_Section3.cfm?attr=4#sect02 for compact flourescent info: http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/energystar/english/consumers/questions-answers.cfm?attr=4 R #### redbelly Jan 1, 1970 0 "Are you saying a halogen bulb of say 20W uses 200W ? " That appears to be what he is saying, and as far as I know, it's not true. In fact, here in the US, halogen bulbs that can replace std screw in light bulbs are marketed as giving more light output for the same wattage. The difference isn't great, maybe 10-15% or so more light output according to the label. But the point is halogens are generally at least as good as regular light bulbs, if not better in terms of energy usage. IIRC, halogens are also superior in lumen maintanance. The halogens cause evaporated tungsten to redeposit on the filament, instead of darkening the bulb over time. Mark O #### operator jay Jan 1, 1970 0 I replaced 150 W halogens with 14 W CFs in some art-deco church wall sconce light fixtures with large semi-circular frosted glass shades beneath by removing the metal fire-prevention grid above each bulb (which had reduced the light output a lot), then unscrewing the halogen socket and removing it and its pigtails and wirenuts to its feed wires and then adding a$2 black
plastic medium base bulb socket, wirenutting its 6" pigtails to the original
feed wires. Each socket had a metal tab with a hole for a sheet-metal screw
to attach it to the metal back of the fixture, after I wrapped the socket
with foil tape so it didn't look dark through the shade.

Does anybody think there would be any inspection authority / insurance /
other issues involved in modifying fixtures which, presumably, used to be UL
or otherwise listed?

j

D

#### Dave D

Jan 1, 1970
0
Palindr?me said:
If it were me in that situation, I think I would have left things as they
were but use them sparingly - maybe taking out a few lamps, rather than
complete fittings.

With low voltage fittings, running them with bulbs missing or blown is a bad
idea. Each time a bulb goes out on a low voltage halogen, the secondary
voltage on the transformer rises significantly, and the remaining bulbs will
have a shorter lifespan.

Dave

D

#### Dave D

Jan 1, 1970
0
KevinGPO said:
I need some help and advice. I just moved into a new expensive flat. I
am trying to save money as I am low on income. I noticed that my entire
flat is illuminated by halogen light bulbs. Every single light bulb
socket in the ceilings are halogen bulb sockets. I know that halogen
light bulbs uses 10x more electricity/energy than conventional/old
light bulbs.

They don't, they use similar amounts of power. You appear to be confusing
'conventional' light bulbs with compact flourescent/energy saving bulbs.
To save some money I have taken all but one halogen bulb out from each
room.

If the bulbs are low voltage types and the fitting uses a conventional mains
transformer, you'll find the lifespan of the remaining bulb(s) decreases
significantly if you run the fittings with missing bulbs.

Dave

P

#### Pooh Bear

Jan 1, 1970
0
KevinGPO said:
I need some help and advice. I just moved into a new expensive flat. I
am trying to save money as I am low on income. I noticed that my entire
flat is illuminated by halogen light bulbs. Every single light bulb
socket in the ceilings are halogen bulb sockets. I know that halogen
light bulbs uses 10x more electricity/energy than conventional/old
light bulbs.

No.

In fact halogen provides slightly more lumens like for like compared to
normal incandescent. The bulbs are pricey though.

Graham

P

#### Palindrâ˜»me

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dave said:
With low voltage fittings, running them with bulbs missing or blown is a bad
idea. Each time a bulb goes out on a low voltage halogen, the secondary
voltage on the transformer rises significantly, and the remaining bulbs will
have a shorter lifespan.
On what do you base this?

I have just checked this using two transformers - both intended for use
with fluorescent lighting. The voltage did not rise significantly when
varying the load between the transformer's maximum rating (120W) and
minimum (35W). It also did not rise significantly when increasing the
supply voltage by 10%. The manufacturer's spec sheet for the
transformers support this. Indeed, all are rated for a range of outputs
- eg 35W <-> 110W.

It is quite possible that the halogens are either mains or have
individual transformers. In which case, removing lamps certainly would
not matter.

It is unlikely that the OP has a shared conventional transformer, not
designed for use with halogen lamps.

P

#### Palindrâ˜»me

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dave said:
They don't, they use similar amounts of power. You appear to be confusing
'conventional' light bulbs with compact flourescent/energy saving bulbs.

If the bulbs are low voltage types and the fitting uses a conventional mains
transformer, you'll find the lifespan of the remaining bulb(s) decreases
significantly if you run the fittings with missing bulbs.

No, only if the light fittings share a common conventional (ie not
designed to be used with halogen lighting) mains transformer will there
be any adverse effect. The fittings probably use indvidual transformers,
or a shared electronic transformer, or a transformer designed to be used
with halogen lights.

Is "flourescent" the American way of spellling fluorescent?

P

#### Palindrâ˜»me

Jan 1, 1970
0
Palindrâ˜»me said:
On what do you base this?

I have just checked this using two transformers - both intended for use
with fluorescent lighting. The voltage did not rise significantly when
varying the load between the transformer's maximum rating (120W) and
minimum (35W). It also did not rise significantly when increasing the
supply voltage by 10%. The manufacturer's spec sheet for the
transformers support this. Indeed, all are rated for a range of outputs
- eg 35W <-> 110W.

It is quite possible that the halogens are either mains or have
individual transformers. In which case, removing lamps certainly would
not matter.

It is unlikely that the OP has a shared conventional transformer, not
designed for use with halogen lamps.
I meant, of course, "intended for use with halogen lighting".

T

#### [email protected]

Jan 1, 1970
0
"operator jay" <[email protected]

"Does anybody think there would be any inspection authority / insurance
/
other issues involved in modifying fixtures which, presumably, used to
be UL
or otherwise listed? "

No, unless the church burns down. In which case I wouldn't want to
have been the one doing the modifications to the light fixtures.

D

#### Dave D

Jan 1, 1970
0
Palindr?me said:
On what do you base this?

On personal experience and basic physics. The cheapo 4X25watt halogen B&Q
type fittings with standard iron cored mains transformers are designed to
put out 12V into a 100W load. When a light fails, the remaining three
brighten considerably due to the voltage rise, which can be considerable as
there's no regulation whatsoever.
I have just checked this using two transformers - both intended for use
with fluorescent lighting.

Flourescent lighting? ;-)
The voltage did not rise significantly when varying the load between the
transformer's maximum rating (120W) and minimum (35W). It also did not rise
significantly when increasing the supply voltage by 10%. The manufacturer's
spec sheet for the transformers support this. Indeed, all are rated for a
range of outputs - eg 35W <-> 110W.
Because that is probably a switchmode PSU, which will likely have some
regulation and may be designed specifically for different loads. If you
raise the input voltage of a iron cored conventional mains transformer by
10%, the output will also rise by 10%. It's basic physics.
It is quite possible that the halogens are either mains or have individual
transformers. In which case, removing lamps certainly would not matter.

I've never seen a single domestic halogen fitting with separate transformers
for each bulb.
It is unlikely that the OP has a shared conventional transformer,

Not unlikely at all. Every domestic halogen fitting I've ever seen has one
shared transformer for all the bulbs on that fitting, and most of those use
a 'conventional' iron transformer for low cost. Most commonly a 100W
transformer supplying 4 25Watt 12V halogens. There are halogen fittings with
long flexible wires with insulation-piercing postionable lights which can be
strung up walls or across ceilings, sometimes with many lights on them, but
they still share a common (large) transformer.
not designed for use with halogen lamps.

Who said anything about not being designed for use with halogens?

Dave

C

#### CJT

Jan 1, 1970
0
KevinGPO said:
I need some help and advice. I just moved into a new expensive flat. I
am trying to save money as I am low on income. I noticed that my entire
flat is illuminated by halogen light bulbs. Every single light bulb
socket in the ceilings are halogen bulb sockets. I know that halogen
light bulbs uses 10x more electricity/energy than conventional/old
light bulbs. Does anyone know the easiest way to replace the halogen
bulb sockets to be able to use the conventional/old light bulbs? Does
there exist a convertor?

To save some money I have taken all but one halogen bulb out from each
room. However I still don't like the sight of halogen light bulbs. I
prefer installing "energy saving" light bulbs but I do not want to use
floor/table lamps. There are now holes with dangling wires from where
the halogen light bulbs used to be. The wires are the halogen sockets.

D

#### Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
On what do you base this?

I have just checked this using two transformers - both intended for use
with fluorescent lighting. The voltage did not rise significantly when
varying the load between the transformer's maximum rating (120W) and
minimum (35W). It also did not rise significantly when increasing the
supply voltage by 10%. The manufacturer's spec sheet for the
transformers support this. Indeed, all are rated for a range of outputs
- eg 35W <-> 110W.

This sounds to me like you have a transformer specifically designed to
regulate output voltage rather than a conventional transformer.

Also, what fluorescent lamps ranging from 35W to 120W need this
transformer?

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

O
Replies
2
Views
2K
N
E
Replies
0
Views
952
E
E
Replies
5
Views
3K
Stig Carlsson
S