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Help wiring a DPDT switch

DBingaman

Jun 27, 2021
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This is not a personal project, I'm designing a product which my company intends to sell as a high-end lab instrument. (Yes, I realize that I am not prepared to be handling this... I'm a brand-new ME graduate and they are trusting me to be the lead designer on a difficult project relative to my level of experience. I'm confident with the mechanical aspects but I'm currently pretty lost as far as the electronics are concerned, as you can see even the power switch is giving me trouble once they decided to add a 2nd function). So in short, I'm going to assume that it will not be acceptable for one of the components to flash on for a moment when the device is powered off.
You may want to use a different DPDT center off switch. There are ones with a 'detent' at the center. You have to pull up to get the switch out of any of the three positions and move to the other position. That type of switch will probably not have this issue.
 

Apostrophe

Jul 19, 2021
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It sounds like the rocker switch is for a moment going 'to far' to the next position before ending up back in the center position.
I actually think you just hit the nail on the head there. When I switch back to the OFF position as slowly and deliberately as I can, this problem no longer occurs. I may have to source a different DPDT switch if this problem persists with the other switches I have (of the same model, I ordered 10 originally), but I think the wiring is now correct. I really appreciate your help!
 

DBingaman

Jun 27, 2021
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You may want to use a different DPDT center off switch. There are ones with a 'detent' at the center. You have to pull up to get the switch out of any of the three positions and move to the other position. That type of switch will probably not have this issue.
I actually think you just hit the nail on the head there. When I switch back to the OFF position as slowly and deliberately as I can, this problem no longer occurs. I may have to source a different DPDT switch if this problem persists with the other switches I have (of the same model, I ordered 10 originally), but I think the wiring is now correct. I really appreciate your help!
I would recommend a single pole three position switch. That would meet your requirements better.
 

Apostrophe

Jul 19, 2021
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DBingaman

Jun 27, 2021
103
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Messages
103
This is not a personal project, I'm designing a product which my company intends to sell as a high-end lab instrument. (Yes, I realize that I am not prepared to be handling this... I'm a brand-new ME graduate and they are trusting me to be the lead designer on a difficult project relative to my level of experience. I'm confident with the mechanical aspects but I'm currently pretty lost as far as the electronics are concerned, as you can see even the power switch is giving me trouble once they decided to add a 2nd function). So in short, I'm going to assume that it will not be acceptable for one of the components to flash on for a moment when the device is powered off.
If this is safety critical, I would not use one switch but two. One to turn on one of the lights and the other to turn on both, you can wire this up in such a way that it would be impossible for this to happen.
 

DBingaman

Jun 27, 2021
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Maximum current will be around 3.5-4A and maximum voltage will be around 6VDC.
Thank you so much for your help, it is greatly appreciated. I will order SP3T switches to test them out. How does the change from DT to 3T affect how it would be wired?
give me a second, I will send an updated drawing...
 

Apostrophe

Jul 19, 2021
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If this is safety critical, I would not use one switch but two. One to turn on one of the lights and the other to turn on both, you can wire this up in such a way that it would be impossible for this to happen.
In the actual product, the two primary components are a laser line module and a Raspberry Pi, the LEDs are just there as indicator lights to show when each component is on, and I was using them to test the switch function. My supervisor wants to have one function where only the laser is on and another where the laser and RPi are on. I originally had 2 power switches but I was told that it looks too much like a prototype and was asked to remove one of them. We do have other built-in safety switches (a lid interlock switch and a keylock switch) for the laser since it is powerful enough to require federal regulation.
 

DBingaman

Jun 27, 2021
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This setup is much simpler and it makes it impossible for lamp2 to be on unless lamp1 is already on:
SafetyCritical.PNG

Logic Table
OPEN OPEN - BOTH OFF
OPEN CLOSE - BOTH OFF
CLOSED OPEN - LAMP1 ON
CLOSED CLOSED - LAMP2 AND LAMP1 ON
 

Apostrophe

Jul 19, 2021
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This setup is much simpler and it makes it impossible for lamp2 to be on unless lamp1 is already on:
View attachment 52398

Logic Table
OPEN OPEN - BOTH OFF
OPEN CLOSE - BOTH OFF
CLOSED OPEN - LAMP1 ON
CLOSED CLOSED - LAMP2 AND LAMP1 ON
Thank you, however I need to have a single switch to control both of them. I agree that 2 switches would be much simpler, but the guy who signs my paycheck wants the device to only have 1 power switch, so my hands are tied there.
 

DBingaman

Jun 27, 2021
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I have an idea for you to try. Try this slight change and see if the problem is resolved (change in red). You might just end up with the problem moving to the other side, but it is worth a try being it is a simple change:

SlightChange.PNG
 

DBingaman

Jun 27, 2021
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Thank you, however I need to have a single switch to control both of them. I agree that 2 switches would be much simpler, but the guy who signs my paycheck wants the device to only have 1 power switch, so my hands are tied there.
I understand.
 

Apostrophe

Jul 19, 2021
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I have an idea for you to try. Try this slight change and see if the problem is resolved (change in red). You might just end up with the problem moving to the other side, but it is worth a try being it is a simple change:

View attachment 52399
This does not seem to solve the issue, but thank you for the suggestion. I think my best bet is to go with a SP3T switch as you suggested before.
 

DBingaman

Jun 27, 2021
103
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This does not seem to solve the issue, but thank you for the suggestion. I think my best bet is to go with a SP3T switch as you suggested before.
I WAS WRONG ON THAT! There is no way to wire up that type of switch to do what you want. Sorry about that.
 

Apostrophe

Jul 19, 2021
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I was wrong about single pole 3 position. It will not do what we want, no matter how we wire it! Sorry about that. In either case would you consider a 'Selector' switch like the following. I am fairly certain you will not have the problem with this switch:

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/idec/LBW6S-3T6/9808663
No worries. Thanks anyway. Do you think a higher quality rocker switch would experience the same problem as the cheap ones I currently have? Going to a rotary selector switch such as that one might be a viable option, but it protrudes farther from the unit and it may not fit with the exterior geometry of the enclosure, which was designed with a low profile rocker switch in mind. I'd rather not redesign the enclosure because of the power switch unless I have no other option.
 

DBingaman

Jun 27, 2021
103
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No worries. Thanks anyway. Do you think a higher quality rocker switch would experience the same problem as the cheap ones I currently have? Going to a rotary selector switch such as that one might be a viable option, but it protrudes farther from the unit and it may not fit with the exterior geometry of the enclosure, which was designed with a low profile rocker switch in mind. I'd rather not redesign the enclosure because of the power switch unless I have no other option.
I think we can find a switch that will not exhibit the problem. Let me snoop around...
 

DBingaman

Jun 27, 2021
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I think at this point your best option is still the DPDT with center off. Yes, I would get a more expensive switch but also I recommend talking to the manufacturer of the switch about the problem BEFORE you order another one. The manufacturer may have options after they understand the problem.
 

DBingaman

Jun 27, 2021
103
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I think at this point your best option is still the DPDT with center off. Yes, I would get a more expensive switch but also I recommend talking to the manufacturer of the switch about the problem BEFORE you order another one. The manufacturer may have options after they understand the problem.
Otherwise it will be hit and miss guessing. You want a switch that is guaranteed not to have the problem you are experiencing.
 
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