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HID and MH lamps are absent from interior lighting!

C

Chris Carlen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi:


Every once in a while I get interested in HID and metal-halide (MH)
lighting systems. My recent spurt of interest was triggered by the
possiblity that I might get to acquire a xenon short-arc lamp for my
job. Oh will that be fun! But I have learned that there is almost no
way that xenon short arcs to be attractive for consumer lighting. They
aren't even particularly efficient. Just have the closest approximation
to a white light point source.

But I have often wanted to get my paws on a miniature HID (automobile or
smaller size) for portable or task/desk lighting use.

Yesterday I discovered this:

http://www.walamp.com/lpd/lamptype/index.tpl?LTSKU=12413818101355&cart=1126201406819984

The I found a portable dive light employing the 10W Solarc device very
reasonably priced compared to the component prices from WelchAllen:

http://www.uwkinetics.com/D_LC100.htm

This is truly the coolest flashlight I have ever seen. A must have!

But I am surprized at the lack of small HID or MH lamp fixtures for
interior lighting.

I will continue looking for a small HID/MH desk lamp or table lamp, or
other interior fixture.

Heh, heh, when I was a kid I came across both a 50W HP sodium and a 175W
mercury vapor lamp fixture. I took them apart and then used to run them
completely open. That is, no enclosure around the ballast transformers;
the Hg lamp would stand up on its own on a table on the ballast core,
and the Na lamp I put into a ceramic wall mount socket a few inches from
the ballast that I could station somewhere on top of a bookcase.

Man did those things light up the room! And the combined Na+Hg made for
a decent color balance.




Good day!
 
B

Ban

Jan 1, 1970
0
Chris said:
Hi:


Every once in a while I get interested in HID and metal-halide (MH)
lighting systems. My recent spurt of interest was triggered by the
possiblity that I might get to acquire a xenon short-arc lamp for my
job. Oh will that be fun! But I have learned that there is almost no
way that xenon short arcs to be attractive for consumer lighting. They
aren't even particularly efficient. Just have the closest
approximation to a white light point source.

Lets compare: a halogen front light in cars uses 55W and produces 1550lm,
which is 28 lm/W
a HID mercury lamp for the same application has 43W(with ballast) and is
good for 3000lm, which is almost 70lm/W. Why do you think this isn't
particulary efficient? (Source Osram)
But I have often wanted to get my paws on a miniature HID (automobile
or smaller size) for portable or task/desk lighting use.

Yesterday I discovered this:

http://www.walamp.com/lpd/lamptype/index.tpl?LTSKU=12413818101355&cart=1126201406819984

The I found a portable dive light employing the 10W Solarc device very
reasonably priced compared to the component prices from WelchAllen:

http://www.uwkinetics.com/D_LC100.htm

This is truly the coolest flashlight I have ever seen. A must have!

But I am surprized at the lack of small HID or MH lamp fixtures for
interior lighting.

I will continue looking for a small HID/MH desk lamp or table lamp, or
other interior fixture.

Heh, heh, when I was a kid I came across both a 50W HP sodium and a
175W mercury vapor lamp fixture. I took them apart and then used to
run them completely open. That is, no enclosure around the ballast
transformers; the Hg lamp would stand up on its own on a table on the
ballast core, and the Na lamp I put into a ceramic wall mount socket
a few inches from the ballast that I could station somewhere on top
of a bookcase.
Man did those things light up the room! And the combined Na+Hg made
for a decent color balance.

Hopefully the UV radiation at 234nm has not damaged your eyes when running
the lamp without glass filter.
 
C

Chris Carlen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ban said:
Lets compare: a halogen front light in cars uses 55W and produces 1550lm,
which is 28 lm/W
a HID mercury lamp for the same application has 43W(with ballast) and is
good for 3000lm, which is almost 70lm/W. Why do you think this isn't
particulary efficient? (Source Osram)

What is it you are trying to ask?
Hopefully the UV radiation at 234nm has not damaged your eyes when running
the lamp without glass filter.

They do have an outer glass envelope of course.
 
Z

Zak

Jan 1, 1970
0
Chris said:
Hi:


Every once in a while I get interested in HID and metal-halide (MH)
lighting systems. My recent spurt of interest was triggered by the
possiblity that I might get to acquire a xenon short-arc lamp for my
job. Oh will that be fun! But I have learned that there is almost no
way that xenon short arcs to be attractive for consumer lighting. They
aren't even particularly efficient. Just have the closest approximation
to a white light point source.

But I have often wanted to get my paws on a miniature HID (automobile or
smaller size) for portable or task/desk lighting use.

They are available. For example, look on www.lival.com. Often used for
store lighting. Available colors seem to be 830 and 942, bulbs cost
around 25 euro and the luminaires from 100.

http://www.firstlight.nl/contents/nl/d204.html
http://www.firstlight.nl/contents/nl/d255.html

Philips cdm-t seems the used bulb here. Mind the warmup and re-strike
timings though.
Man did those things light up the room! And the combined Na+Hg made for
a decent color balance.

If you have a big room - but garden lighting seems a natural to me.


Thomas
 
R

Richard Henry

Jan 1, 1970
0
Chris Carlen said:
What is it you are trying to ask?


They do have an outer glass envelope of course.

There's glass, and there's glass. Fused quartz glass is almost transparent
deep into UV wavelengths.
 
P

Paul Hovnanian P.E.

Jan 1, 1970
0
Chris said:
Hi:

Every once in a while I get interested in HID and metal-halide (MH)
lighting systems. My recent spurt of interest was triggered by the
possiblity that I might get to acquire a xenon short-arc lamp for my
job. Oh will that be fun! But I have learned that there is almost no
way that xenon short arcs to be attractive for consumer lighting. They
aren't even particularly efficient. Just have the closest approximation
to a white light point source.

But I have often wanted to get my paws on a miniature HID (automobile or
smaller size) for portable or task/desk lighting use.

Yesterday I discovered this:

http://www.walamp.com/lpd/lamptype/index.tpl?LTSKU=12413818101355&cart=1126201406819984

The I found a portable dive light employing the 10W Solarc device very
reasonably priced compared to the component prices from WelchAllen:

http://www.uwkinetics.com/D_LC100.htm

This is truly the coolest flashlight I have ever seen. A must have!

But I am surprized at the lack of small HID or MH lamp fixtures for
interior lighting.

Ask this question of the folks over on sci.engr.lighting

Its possible that such discharge lamps become less efficient and/or more
expensive per lumen as their outputs are reduced to sizes appropriate
for interior lighting (typical residential or office).
 
C

Chris Carlen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Richard said:
There's glass, and there's glass. Fused quartz glass is almost transparent
deep into UV wavelengths.



Almost all commercial arc lighting bulbs with screw-in bases have glass
outer envelopes. It's the inner arc-tube which is fused-silica. The
outer envelope makes it safe. Running it without the outer envelope
would expose one to dangerous UV.
 
C

Chris Carlen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Zak said:
They are available. For example, look on www.lival.com. Often used for
store lighting. Available colors seem to be 830 and 942, bulbs cost
around 25 euro and the luminaires from 100.

http://www.firstlight.nl/contents/nl/d204.html
http://www.firstlight.nl/contents/nl/d255.html

Philips cdm-t seems the used bulb here. Mind the warmup and re-strike
timings though.

Yes, the Philips line I have found as well. That 20W CDM-T is really
neat. Now I just need to find some decent priced fixtures in USA.



Good day!
 
C

Chris Carlen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Paul said:
Ask this question of the folks over on sci.engr.lighting

Its possible that such discharge lamps become less efficient and/or more
expensive per lumen as their outputs are reduced to sizes appropriate
for interior lighting (typical residential or office).

Yes, actually that is true, with the 10W HID lamps at about 45
lumens/watt which is where LEDs are these days, and quite below larger
MH/HID lighting in the 35W and up sizes. The 35W seems to be the
breakpoint below which efficiency drops. 10W is about the practical
lower limit of usefulness.

Thanks for the tip. I forgot about that group.


Good day!
 
I

Ian Stirling

Jan 1, 1970
0
Chris Carlen said:
Yes, actually that is true, with the 10W HID lamps at about 45
lumens/watt which is where LEDs are these days, and quite below larger
MH/HID lighting in the 35W and up sizes. The 35W seems to be the
breakpoint below which efficiency drops. 10W is about the practical
lower limit of usefulness.

Not to mention more fragile.
The temperatures need to be quite high, so to avoid excessive losses through
the electrode wires, you need them to be very thin - which means there
is a compromise between robustness and efficiency.
 
J

JosephKK

Jan 1, 1970
0
Chris said:
Hi:


Every once in a while I get interested in HID and metal-halide (MH)
lighting systems. My recent spurt of interest was triggered by the
possiblity that I might get to acquire a xenon short-arc lamp for my
job. Oh will that be fun! But I have learned that there is almost no
way that xenon short arcs to be attractive for consumer lighting. They
aren't even particularly efficient. Just have the closest approximation
to a white light point source.

But I have often wanted to get my paws on a miniature HID (automobile or
smaller size) for portable or task/desk lighting use.

Yesterday I discovered this:

http://www.walamp.com/lpd/lamptype/index.tpl?LTSKU=12413818101355&cart=1126201406819984

The I found a portable dive light employing the 10W Solarc device very
reasonably priced compared to the component prices from WelchAllen:

http://www.uwkinetics.com/D_LC100.htm

This is truly the coolest flashlight I have ever seen. A must have!

But I am surprized at the lack of small HID or MH lamp fixtures for
interior lighting.

I will continue looking for a small HID/MH desk lamp or table lamp, or
other interior fixture.

Heh, heh, when I was a kid I came across both a 50W HP sodium and a 175W
mercury vapor lamp fixture. I took them apart and then used to run them
completely open. That is, no enclosure around the ballast transformers;
the Hg lamp would stand up on its own on a table on the ballast core,
and the Na lamp I put into a ceramic wall mount socket a few inches from
the ballast that I could station somewhere on top of a bookcase.

Man did those things light up the room! And the combined Na+Hg made for
a decent color balance.




Good day!
Experimenter reproduces GW Lucalux lamps spectrum.
 
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