# Highest freq oscillators

R

#### Roberto

Jan 1, 1970
0
What are the very highest frequency oscillators out there? I'm guessing that
it would probably have some exotic component in it, so my other question is:
what are the highest frequency oscillators out there which use relatively
"normal" components?

Robert

R

#### Rene Tschaggelar

Jan 1, 1970
0
Roberto said:
What are the very highest frequency oscillators out there? I'm guessing that
it would probably have some exotic component in it, so my other question is:
what are the highest frequency oscillators out there which use relatively
"normal" components?
The components change gradually and so do the mechanical layouts.
What is a normal component ? perhaps a BC107 ?
What is a normal construction ? wirewrap ?

Rene

S

#### SioL

Jan 1, 1970
0
Roberto said:
What are the very highest frequency oscillators out there? I'm guessing that
it would probably have some exotic component in it, so my other question is:
what are the highest frequency oscillators out there which use relatively
"normal" components?

Robert

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/Images/introduction/emsurface.gif

An ordinary light bulb is simplest.

Next, you could get one of those UV lights, that's even higher.

If you're talking radio, you should be able to produce a few GHz today
"easily".

SioL

P

#### Paul Burridge

Jan 1, 1970
0
The components change gradually and so do the mechanical layouts.
What is a normal component ? perhaps a BC107 ?
What is a normal construction ? wirewrap ?

Perhaps he means what the highest frequency oscillators in fundamental
mode? The question doesn't make much sense otherwise.

R

#### Rene Tschaggelar

Jan 1, 1970
0
Paul said:
Perhaps he means what the highest frequency oscillators in fundamental
mode? The question doesn't make much sense otherwise.

There was no mention of a quartz.
An LC osc can be said to be limited by the semiconductors, as
you always get a smaller cap, smaller inductor.
The Q may become a problem when the layout is inappropriate,
eg 100nH connected to wirewrap.

Rene

A

#### Al Yeager

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you consider light waves to be oscillations then UV LEDs would be the winner.

hth

al

R

#### Roberto

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you consider light waves to be oscillations then UV LEDs would be the
winner.

OK, OK, I guess a rephrase is in order...

I only mean oscillations of current in a wire, not electron clouds in
mercury atoms! (or something)

And by "normal" components, I meant thing like semiconductors, crystals,
etc., as opposed to klystrons [sic] and that kind of thing. I guess it's a
matter of opinion where you draw the line, though.

Thanks,
Robert

A

#### Active8

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you consider light waves to be oscillations then UV LEDs would be the
winner.

OK, OK, I guess a rephrase is in order...

I only mean oscillations of current in a wire, not electron clouds in
mercury atoms! (or something)

And by "normal" components, I meant thing like semiconductors, crystals,
etc., as opposed to klystrons [sic] and that kind of thing. I guess it's a
matter of opinion where you draw the line, though.

those Klystrons and magnetrons are used because they put out way more
power than the semiconductor oscillators and they're tuned cavities.

with semis, you buffer and amplify the output.

into the GHz. alternately, you can use LC oscillators as a start.
microstrip lines can be used. coaxial resonators are normal enough. you
can use the parasitic L and C of uhf/microwave transistors to get
oscillations.

stripline/microstrip bandpass filters can be modified to make VCOs.
nothing "abnormal" there.

in all but the case of a crystal based. coaxial, and maybe stripline
oscillator, you'll need a pll to stabilize the frequency and even the
crystal osc may need compensation or PLL stabilization since "stable" is
a relative term.

there are gunn diodes used in Gunnplexers. around 10GHz IIRC. i consider
that "normal" too. those are cool.

you might try Mini-Circuits, they have some really cool VCOs in the $24-$50 range. M/A Comm is one other source.

otherwise, just build a high freq amplifier. it'll probably oscillate,
but only if you really want it to be an amplifier

HTH,
mike

J

#### John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
What are the very highest frequency oscillators out there? I'm guessing that
it would probably have some exotic component in it, so my other question is:
what are the highest frequency oscillators out there which use relatively
"normal" components?

Robert

Commercial semiconductor-based oscillators can be made to work up to
roughly 60 GHz. It's common to brag about experimental semiconductors
in terms of their Fmax, max oscillation frequency: I've seen reports

I think there are some exotic tubes that oscillate in the millimeter
region, and FEL lasers are "oscillators" too, I suppose.

John

R

#### Robert Lacoste

Jan 1, 1970
0
I only mean oscillations of current in a wire, not electron clouds in
mercury atoms! (or something)

So the limitation will be I think the wire, not the components... Anywhere
above 40 to 60GHz you will have great difficulties to find a "wire" that
will conduct your signal, except on very very short distance. But if you
accept more exotic transmission medium, like planar waves in a tube, then
100 to may be 200GHz seems achievable these days. The only problem will be
to find a device to detect it...

Robert

Roberto said:
If you consider light waves to be oscillations then UV LEDs would be the
winner.

OK, OK, I guess a rephrase is in order...

I only mean oscillations of current in a wire, not electron clouds in
mercury atoms! (or something)

And by "normal" components, I meant thing like semiconductors, crystals,
etc., as opposed to klystrons [sic] and that kind of thing. I guess it's a
matter of opinion where you draw the line, though.

Thanks,
Robert

P

#### Phil Hobbs

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
Commercial semiconductor-based oscillators can be made to work up to
roughly 60 GHz. It's common to brag about experimental semiconductors
in terms of their Fmax, max oscillation frequency: I've seen reports

I think there are some exotic tubes that oscillate in the millimeter
region, and FEL lasers are "oscillators" too, I suppose.

The highest frequencies currently reachable as currents in wires are in
the blue region of the optical spectrum--about 700 THz or so. You make
them by exciting surface plasmons in a thin metal film, using a
metal-insulator-metal tunnel junction. The MIM junction works rather
like the base-emitter junction of a BJT--it injects electrons which then
create surface electromagnetic waves on the opposite surface of the
film, rather than drifting through the depletion region to the collector
contact.

The spectrum is set by the forbidden gap of the tunnel barrier--lower
gaps lead to longer wavelengths. Since these are extremely cheap and
can be modulated very rapidly (terahertz), they may be attractive as
light sources in short range optical communications. The drawbacks are
25% fractional bandwidth), which leads to lots of problems with
dispersion, and their very low efficiency at present.

My work at present is in miniaturizing classical microwave technology
(to 0.1 to 0.25 um sizes), with similar MIM tunnel junctions as active
devices, for use in optical interconnections in servers and routers.
This also involves electric currents in (very small) wires, in the 200
THz (1.5 micron) range.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

L

#### Leon Heller

Jan 1, 1970
0
Roberto said:
What are the very highest frequency oscillators out there? I'm guessing that
it would probably have some exotic component in it, so my other question is:
what are the highest frequency oscillators out there which use relatively
"normal" components?

or so. Millions of these are in use.

Leon

T

#### Tim Shoppa

Jan 1, 1970
0
Roberto said:
What are the very highest frequency oscillators out there? I'm guessing that
it would probably have some exotic component in it, so my other question is:
what are the highest frequency oscillators out there which use relatively
"normal" components?

Assuming "normal" means parts connected by real conducting wires, the
speed of light sets the scale. For a size of a few cm the number you
get is 10GHz or so.

Abandon wires and you're in TWT (traveling wave tube) territory (klystrons,
magnetrons, etc.).

Tim.

R

#### Roberto

Jan 1, 1970
0
Assuming "normal" means parts connected by real conducting wires, the
speed of light sets the scale. For a size of a few cm the number you
get is 10GHz or so.

Abandon wires and you're in TWT (traveling wave tube) territory (klystrons,
magnetrons, etc.).

Tim.

And I guess you can't exactly use TWT for communications? Or can you? :-S

Thnaks,
Robert

W

#### Watson A.Name - Watt Sun

Jan 1, 1970
0
Perhaps he means what the highest frequency oscillators in fundamental
mode? The question doesn't make much sense otherwise.

A Laser, with the shortest wavelength. What's that? UV? Blue?

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W

#### Watson A.Name - Watt Sun

Jan 1, 1970
0
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/Images/introduction/emsurface.gif

An ordinary light bulb is simplest.

Next, you could get one of those UV lights, that's even higher.

But the light is not a pure frequency, it is not monochromatic like a
laser is. A regular blue or UV LED has a purer, less polychromatic
output than a light bulb, but a laser is truely monochromatic.
If you're talking radio, you should be able to produce a few GHz today
"easily".

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My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
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Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
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W

#### Watson A.Name - Watt Sun

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you consider light waves to be oscillations then UV LEDs would be the winner.

A UV Laser is more monochromatic than a UV LED.

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Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
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W

#### Watson A.Name - Watt Sun

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you consider light waves to be oscillations then UV LEDs would be the
winner.

OK, OK, I guess a rephrase is in order...

I only mean oscillations of current in a wire, not electron clouds in
mercury atoms! (or something)

And by "normal" components, I meant thing like semiconductors, crystals,
etc., as opposed to klystrons [sic] and that kind of thing. I guess it's a
matter of opinion where you draw the line, though.

The next time you walk thru an automatic door, look up at that small
box above it, which has a microwave oscillator in it. This is usually
a Gunn diode or IMPATT diode in a cavity. It might oscillate in the X
band.
Thanks,
Robert

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###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
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My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
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W

#### Watson A.Name - Watt Sun

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you consider light waves to be oscillations then UV LEDs would be the
winner.

OK, OK, I guess a rephrase is in order...

I only mean oscillations of current in a wire, not electron clouds in
mercury atoms! (or something)

And by "normal" components, I meant thing like semiconductors, crystals,
etc., as opposed to klystrons [sic] and that kind of thing. I guess it's a
matter of opinion where you draw the line, though.

those Klystrons and magnetrons are used because they put out way more
power than the semiconductor oscillators and they're tuned cavities.

The reflex klystrons that are the size of the tubes in a tube radio
put out well under 1 watt. See http://www.tubecollector.org/707b.htm
with semis, you buffer and amplify the output.

Not necessarily. Here's a publiation that talks about a Gunn diode
that puts out 45 GHz.

Here's a 120 GHz HEMT oscillator. Now, that's prtty high freq. If
you go much higher than that, you are in the low end of the infrared
band.
into the GHz. alternately, you can use LC oscillators as a start.
microstrip lines can be used. coaxial resonators are normal enough. you
can use the parasitic L and C of uhf/microwave transistors to get
oscillations.

stripline/microstrip bandpass filters can be modified to make VCOs.
nothing "abnormal" there.

in all but the case of a crystal based. coaxial, and maybe stripline
oscillator, you'll need a pll to stabilize the frequency and even the
crystal osc may need compensation or PLL stabilization since "stable" is
a relative term.

there are gunn diodes used in Gunnplexers. around 10GHz IIRC. i consider
that "normal" too. those are cool.

you might try Mini-Circuits, they have some really cool VCOs in the $24-$50 range. M/A Comm is one other source.

otherwise, just build a high freq amplifier. it'll probably oscillate,
but only if you really want it to be an amplifier

HTH,
mike

--
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###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@@[email protected]@[email protected]@@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@@

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