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Honeywell 6150 Keypad Troubleshooting

Kent Miller

Jun 16, 2010
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I'm installing a Vista20 alarm system, which came as a kit with a Honeywell 6150 keypad. I've completed the installation wiring, but when I power the system up, the LCD on the keypad stays blank. It had power (the keys light up), but no display. I have confirmed that it's wired correctly, and have gone so far as to remove the keypad from its installed location and wire it next to the control box, just to eliminate the possibility that it's a wire problem.

I also swapped the Green & Yellow wires to see what happened - the LCD lights up, but gives an "OC" (open connection) error.

Any suggestions? I'm at the end of my limited knowledge already...

Thanks,
 

ChosunOne

Jun 20, 2010
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Kent, you need to set the keypad address. You do _not_ need to go into the control panel programming to do this, it's Keypad Local Programming---nothing to do with Panel Installer Programming.

First, I assume you returned the green & yellow wires to their proper places?

(1)Power the panel down and wait about half a minute, just to be safe.

(2)Power the panel up and immediately press 1 and 3 simultaneously. You must do this within 60 seconds of powering up. Hold them down for 3 seconds, and a display of (probably) "31" will show. (That's the default keypad address, used for non-addressable systems. Your Vista-20P requires keypads and other bus devices to be addressed.)

(3) Enter "16", which will show in the display, and then * (star) to save it. Give it a few seconds and your display will come up. The panel does a diagnostic self-check on power-up, so you may have to wait another couple of minutes before the display makes sense.

Note: Be prepared to make the entries before doing steps 1 & 2. The keypad drops out of programming if you make no entry for more than a few seconds, so stopping to re-read the instructions doesn't work well.

Another warning: Connecting keypads in the newer Ademco systems should be done with power off. Connecting to live power can zap your keypad.

The Address 16 is the default address permanently in the control, but if you want to add more keypad, you will need to go into Panel Installer Programming and enable addresses 17, 18, 19, etc. When that comes up, look in the installation instructions at fields *190, *191, etc.

Another Note: You can do some of the programming with your 6150 keypad, but not the zone programming. For that, you will need a 2-line alphanumeric keypad, either a 6139 or a 6160. Do you have access to one?
 
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Kent Miller

Jun 16, 2010
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Thanks, ChosunOne,
With further research, I did discover that for use with the Vista-20, I needed to code the 6150 with a "16" code, and did this earlier today. It now cycles through its 8 zones, but of course, that's all it does. Unfortunately, I found that I could not complete my programming with that keypad. The installer and programming instructions are definitely not clear on that point (I am certain they were not written with the novice installer in mind). I am now awaiting delivery of a 6160 keypad. I understand I can complete my programming with the 6160, then remove it from the system and return it to its owner.

Thanks again for responding.
 

ChosunOne

Jun 20, 2010
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Thanks, ChosunOne,
With further research, I did discover that for use with the Vista-20, I needed to code the 6150 with a "16" code, and did this earlier today. It now cycles through its 8 zones, but of course, that's all it does. Unfortunately, I found that I could not complete my programming with that keypad. The installer and programming instructions are definitely not clear on that point (I am certain they were not written with the novice installer in mind). I am now awaiting delivery of a 6160 keypad. I understand I can complete my programming with the 6160, then remove it from the system and return it to its owner.

Thanks again for responding.

You're welcome. If you ever decide you'd like to have a used utility programming keypad for future contingencies, I can make you a good offer. I'm an old alarm tech and have extra Alpha keypads lying around that are perfectly functional but not nice-looking enough to install. Just in case you're interested. I'm trying to pare down all my surplus stuff that's filling up all my room.
 

Kent Miller

Jun 16, 2010
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Thanks for the offer, CO, but with any luck, this will be the only time I need it. I only got to this point when my ancient Westec 4000 died on me just as I've listed my house for sale. I felt I needed to sell the house with a working system.
 

ChosunOne

Jun 20, 2010
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Westec 4000? I'm not familiar with their stuff and from what I've read on several other forums, neither are most experienced alarm techs. They apparently weren't that big in most places. I haven't been able to find what equipment they used--it's highly unlikely they made their own.

The only reason that matters is the possibility that there are some EOLR's (End Of Line Resistors) installed in your wiring waiting to ambush you when you connect the hardwired zone loops onto the panel.

In nearly all alarm systems for the last 20-30 years, there are EOLR's installed in the loops. Trouble with swapping out system control panels is, most of them used different value resistors, anything from 1K ohm to 12K ohm. Ademco used to use 1K and now they use 2K for _most_ applications. Your Vista-20 panel uses 2K for everything.

If you're lucky, the Westec's EOLR's were installed on the loop inside the old control panel at the zone loop terminals--or whatever panel they were using was programmed not to look for an EOLR--that's common option for many panels. If there's a fire loop with smoke/heat sensors, however, that EOLR should be at the last device on the loop (or the installing technician should be criminally prosecuted!).

If you have a multimeter, I'd advise you to read the resistance on all your hardwire loops before connecting them. It shouldn't read more than a few ohms without the EOLR, maybe a dozen or so if it's a long loop covering a lot of doors/windows. I rarely read more than 5 ohms in a loop. If you read anywhere near 2K ohms on the loop, then you're good to go without installing the resistors that came with your panel.

The control panels aren't designed to be very discriminating about that resistance they're looking for. It's not uncommon to find 2.2 K resistors used in place of 2K's, and the panel won't even notice a 10% difference. But the real hazard is that they'll sometimes tolerate as much as a 50% or more resistance---for awhile.

A few years ago I actually had a service call following a panel swap-out, and the installers used the existing EOLR in the fire loop for an Ademco panel because the panel didn't object when they wired it in. It waited 3 days (!!) to go into trouble because the EOL Fire loop resistor was 3.3K instead of 2K.

I hope I'm not coming across as overly officious, but I'd hate to think of some old EOLR ambushing you just as you're showing your house, or having the new buyer call you the week he moves in.
 

Kent Miller

Jun 16, 2010
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Trust me when I say the Westec 4000 is ancient. I had it installed 16 years ago when I moved in; when I went to look for info on the web about it, there was almost nothing. Even Googling the keypad got me ONE hit...

I have mostly glass break detectors, and I've been inside a couple of them. I'm certain there are no EOLRs. All are wired one per circuit, except for one pair, which is in series, with an EOLR in the loop (a 3k ohm, which came in the Vista-20P kit - surprising to me, as the printed materials mention 2k ohm resistors). I've got two smoke detectors (2 wire), and I've been inside each of them. They did not have any EOLRs either. One now has an EOLR wired across its terminals (they're not in a loop, they're wired in parallel, BTW).

I think I can scrape up a multimeter, and will take your advice to check each circuit out. It'll be a few days before I get my hands on the 6160 keypad, so I probably won't get back to it until then.

I appreciate the advice, and please don't feel like you're coming across too strong. I know my way around house wiring, but I've never had any experience with an alarm system, so I'm open to all suggestions/advice/critiques.
 

ChosunOne

Jun 20, 2010
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Kent, about that fire loop--yes, I didn't bother to say much much about it, but all fire loops have the devices wired in parallel. Fire devices are required to be open-loop devices (relay open in "normal" condition, closed in alarm) by Code--and in fact, whatever panel Westec used should have been hard-coded to _require_ an EOLR on any zone set as a fire zone. If you didn't find one on the panel terminals (criminally neglegent installing) or on either of the smoke sensors, I'd look for another device. Sometimes there's a heat 'stat the homeowner isn't even aware of, in the furnace room or in the attic. The EOLR should be in/at the last device on the loop.

And btw, in alarm industry jargon, "loop" is used to refer to either parallel or series circuits from the panel out to the sensors.

It's _possible_ that the smoke farthest from the panel has a built-in 3K resistor. If that's the case, you will need to put a 6.2K resistor (included with your Vista-20P) across the terminals to make a 2K resistance at the end of the loop, to make it compatible for the Vista panel. (A 3K and 6.2K wired in parallel make about a 2K resistance.)

The 3K resistors that came with the Vista-20P were part of a resistor kit for the zone-doubling option. You should have found eight 2K reisistors, eight 3K resistors, and eight 6.2K resistors. I'd advise you to put all the 3K and 6.2K resistors aside in a separate place so you don't get them mixed with the 2K's. I've done it. :eek:

Your multimeter doesn't have to be an expensive one. Don't know where you are on the continent, but if you have Radio Shack nearby their cheap $15-20 shirt-pocket model will do fine. I have an expensive Fluke meter that I almost never use because my RS pocket model is plenty accurate and a lot more convenient to carry around. I love the digital age!
 
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Kent Miller

Jun 16, 2010
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This gets me to thinking more....I'll take a closer look at the resistors in the kit - I remember the 3k and (I think) 6.2k's; there was another set, but I wasn't sure they were 2k. I'll switch it out; I installed the 3k ohm in the fire detector; there was none before, unless it was hardwired in the original control panel, which I suppose could have been the case. the way the various circuits were attached was not transparent; it seemed they were all wired into a plug that snapped into the board, as opposed to the individual lugs on the Vista panel. I'm certain there's no other fire/smoke device, though.

Radio Shack is just down the street - but I have an (also) ancient volt meter that can be switched to measure resistance and should do the trick. Question: should I unwire each circuit before testing resistance - will I get a different reading if I only contact the lugs to which they're already wired?
 

ChosunOne

Jun 20, 2010
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Definitely take the zone loop wires off the wire terminal lugs before measuring loop resistance. And definitely take the 3K off the smoke sensor; but if I were you, I wouldn't put a 2K on it yet. You'd just have to take it off again when you get your ohm-meter in hand.

If the fire loop EOLR was in the old panel, it would have been wired in parallel across the terminal lugs *shutter!!*--but the important thing to do now is insure all your loops have a 2k resistance: Parallel on open-loop zones, series on closed-loop zones (devices and EOLR in series).
 
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