How is building bombs related to this group?

[Chesucat]

What does bomb creations have to do with basic electronics, aside from the obvious
need for a timer or RF-controlled detonation device? I do know there were "electronic
engineers" at Los Alamos in the 1950's, but I bombs are mostly chemical things! There
are some innovative devices for bombs, like placing a bomb on a collar and the placing
the collar around the neck. That really was quite clever to think of, eliminate the
witness type of thing. But the collar was not home made, it look the type of collar
that they put on livestock to temporary hold them?

chesucat

 

[Andrew Howard]

It isn't.
If you had read the replies, I don't think many people do think it is
relevant. It's probably just some idiot trying to get attention. (This is
assuming you were talking about a recent post titled "building a bomb", from
'Tom R. Rastell'

Andrew Howard

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

It isn't.
If you had read the replies, I don't think many people do think it is
relevant. It's probably just some idiot trying to get attention. (This is
assuming you were talking about a recent post titled "building a bomb", from
'Tom R. Rastell'

Andrew Howard

He might be talking about some of the bad circuit ideas that crop up
all the time! ;-)

 

[John Fortier]

What does bomb creations have to do with basic electronics, aside from the obvious
need for a timer or RF-controlled detonation device? I do know there were "electronic
engineers" at Los Alamos in the 1950's, but I bombs are mostly chemical things! There
are some innovative devices for bombs, like placing a bomb on a collar and the placing
the collar around the neck. That really was quite clever to think of, eliminate the
witness type of thing. But the collar was not home made, it look the type of collar
that they put on livestock to temporary hold them?

chesucat

The "How do I build a bomb" thread was popular simply because it was so
ridiculous. Anyone who comes out and asks a newsgroup how to build a bomb is
pretty obviously not a threat, and it gave us the opportunity to provide the
derision that the post so obviously deserved - a very human reaction.

I enjoyed it and I particularly hope that the poster took my advice about
holding the capacitor in his mouth while connecting it to the mains.

To take it in any way seriously would have been the wrong reaction. Mind
you, if he was posting from within the US, Homeland Security may not take
such a lenient attitude!

John

 

[Adam Aglionby]

What does bomb creations have to do with basic electronics, aside from the obvious
need for a timer or RF-controlled detonation device? I do know there were "electronic
engineers" at Los Alamos in the 1950's, but I bombs are mostly chemical things! There
are some innovative devices for bombs, like placing a bomb on a collar and the placing
the collar around the neck. That really was quite clever to think of, eliminate the
witness type of thing. But the collar was not home made, it look the type of collar
that they put on livestock to temporary hold them?

chesucat

Think it was probably a poor attempt at trolling.

The book references I gave are in part the argument against people claiming
that the internet is a home for nutters looking to build bombs, their local
library has been providing them this service long before the internet.

Explosives are a good way to get young people interested in science in
general, manufacturing even basic explosives is non trivial and knowing how
it is done, is far different from being capable of doing it.
There are pyrotechnic news groups for those who wish to pursue an interest.

So no kewl gunz `n` bombz here.

Adam

 

[Sir Charles W. Shults III]

So much for our educational system if making explosives is considered a good
way (or perhaps the only way) to get young people interested in science.

The fact is, learning a clever or flashy trick is often what drives a kid
into learning about something. From there, the feeling of accomplishment then
often gets them to learn more about the subject.
I really doubt that some 8 year old says to him/herself, "Gee, I wish I
understood how the chrome plating was put on that hydraulic ram. That would be
a cool trick to show my friends!" Or "I sure would like to make the machines
that insert the springs inside ball point pens! That would be real cool!"
Things that assault our senses draw interest. Things that produce an
eye-catching effect or weird sound will draw us. Stink bombs are another
example- making something innocuous looking that smells so bad it can take the
lining out of the nasal cavities and cause wild animals to flee in terror...
kids like stuff that goes fast, makes a flash and a bang, sounds loud or neat,
or smells read bad.
Along those lines, explosives are a constant draw for many kids who often
enough become fascinated with the finer points of the skills they learn, to
eventually become useful members of society.

Cheers!

Chip Shults
My robotics, space and CGI web page - http://home.cfl.rr.com/aichip

 

[Keith R. Williams]

What happened to erector sets, tinker toys and model trains. These are the
things (as well as many others) that first stimulated my interest in things
technical.

I blew them up!

 

[Baphomet]

Explosives are a good way to get young people interested in science in

general, manufacturing even basic explosives is non trivial and knowing how
it is done, is far different from being capable of doing it.
There are pyrotechnic news groups for those who wish to pursue an interest.

So no kewl gunz `n` bombz here.

So much for our educational system if making explosives is considered a good
way (or perhaps the only way) to get young people interested in science.

 

[John Fields]

So much for our educational system if making explosives is considered a good
way (or perhaps the only way) to get young people interested in science.

---
Our educational system has very little to do with it, I think, since (in
the early years _for sure_ they pretty much tend to pretend that
explosives don't exist. When I was a kid I was attracted to explosives
because they were exciting and dangerous and it was thrilling to be able
to make things that actually blew up or made different colored flames,
or could melt steel, and all that kind of stuff.

Matter of fact, I had a Gilbert chemistry set with the "good stuff" in
it; Potassion Nitrate, Strontium Nitrate, Potassium Permanganate and its
friend Glycerine, Magnesium filings and ribbon, Sulfur, charcoal, a nice
little mortar and pestle and an instruction manual with PLENTY of
warnings.

Take a look at the pussy chemistry sets they have now and you're lucky
to get Boric acid, so that's not going to attract too many kids.

 

[Baphomet]

The fact is, learning a clever or flashy trick is often what drives a kid
into learning about something. From there, the feeling of accomplishment then
often gets them to learn more about the subject.
I really doubt that some 8 year old says to him/herself, "Gee, I wish I
understood how the chrome plating was put on that hydraulic ram. That would be
a cool trick to show my friends!" Or "I sure would like to make the machines
that insert the springs inside ball point pens! That would be real cool!"
Things that assault our senses draw interest. Things that produce an
eye-catching effect or weird sound will draw us. Stink bombs are another
example- making something innocuous looking that smells so bad it can take the
lining out of the nasal cavities and cause wild animals to flee in terror...
kids like stuff that goes fast, makes a flash and a bang, sounds loud or neat,
or smells read bad.
Along those lines, explosives are a constant draw for many kids who often
enough become fascinated with the finer points of the skills they learn, to
eventually become useful members of society.

What happened to erector sets, tinker toys and model trains. These are the
things (as well as many others) that first stimulated my interest in things
technical.

 

[Baphomet]

What happened to erector sets, tinker toys and model trains. These are the

things (as well as many others) that first stimulated my interest in things
technical.

Hmmm....Now that I think of it, I did deliberately crash trains head on
several times more than once.

 

[Terry]

Matter of fact, I had a Gilbert chemistry set with the "good stuff" in
it; Potassion Nitrate, Strontium Nitrate, Potassium Permanganate and its
friend Glycerine, Magnesium filings and ribbon, Sulfur, charcoal, a nice
little mortar and pestle and an instruction manual with PLENTY of
warnings.

Take a look at the pussy chemistry sets they have now and you're lucky
to get Boric acid, so that's not going to attract too many kids.

Thanks for the memory John:
Gosh. I remember those type of Chemistry Sets. What a stink I
used to make with 'Flowers of sulphur'!
Later spent over 40 years in radio/telecommunications/electronics
work! Still dabble.
Terry.

 

[Chesucat]

Terry wrote:
T>
T>Thanks for the memory John:
T>Gosh. I remember those type of Chemistry Sets. What a stink I
T>used to make with 'Flowers of sulphur'!
T>Later spent over 40 years in radio/telecommunications/electronics
T>work! Still dabble.
T>Terry.

I was never interested in chemistry when I growing up! However, I was fascinated with
thermite and the intense heat it emitted. Just a little bit of iron ore and magnesium
shavings mix together and ignited. That would melt just about anything! Yep!

chesucat

 

[John Fortier]

the were and
the placing type
of collar

Think it was probably a poor attempt at trolling.

The book references I gave are in part the argument against people claiming
that the internet is a home for nutters looking to build bombs, their local
library has been providing them this service long before the internet.

Explosives are a good way to get young people interested in science in
general, manufacturing even basic explosives is non trivial and knowing how
it is done, is far different from being capable of doing it.
There are pyrotechnic news groups for those who wish to pursue an interest.

So no kewl gunz `n` bombz here.

Adam

When I was a young idiot, well, nerd would be a better word, but nobody had
heard of nerds back then in 19 her humm, a friend of mine and I took up
rocket building. We were also into grinding our own mirrors for Cassgrain
Telescopes, but the rockets were a lot more dynamic, either vertically or,
all too often, horizontally!

We lived in Ontario, on the north shore of Lake Ontario, and our final
effort was a six foot job, fuelled by a mixture of sublimated sulfur and
powdered aluminum, chemically sintered using alchahol. For reasons known
only to 16 year olds, we decided that the safest place to fire it was south
into the lake.

It worked beautifully, went up until we lost sight of it and, presumably,
fell somewhere in the lake or, if it worked as well as it seemed, in New
York State, where I presently live. (If I ever find a long aluminum tube in
my garden, with a ceramic nozzle at one end and a lamp shade at the other,
I'll know where it came from.)

We were just packing up and putting our launch rail into the back of Ron's
dad's pickup, (which we had "borrowed") when the RCMP. the OPP and the RCAF
all turned up. Our rocket had set off a major NORAD alert!

Up to that time I didn't really know what the expression "deep shit" really
meant, but I sure found out over the next few hours. We were so grounded I
still sometimes wonder if I'm allowed out of the house!

What is this all leading up to. Well, there are ways to get interested in
science and there are other ways to get interested in science. Building
bombs and killer rockets are not good ways to get interested. People get
hurt. The builders blow their hands off, and get very little sympathy. We
were lucky, we managed to put together a working rocket, and survived to
tell the tale, but we could so easily have blown our fool heads off and
those of anyone else who happened to be nearby at the time.

So, please, Adam, don't encourage anyone to experiment with pyrotechnics.
Unless the experimenter is a part of a group which actually knows what it's
doing, and by group I don't mean Hammas or their ilk, then they will be a
menace to themselves and everyone around them. If they are building a bomb
with the intent to do harm with it, such encouragement borders on the
criminal.

So the answer to "I'm building a bomb, what do I need?" is either "A
different hobby." or "Psychiatric help."

John

 

[John Fortier]

---
Our educational system has very little to do with it, I think, since (in
the early years _for sure_ they pretty much tend to pretend that
explosives don't exist. When I was a kid I was attracted to explosives
because they were exciting and dangerous and it was thrilling to be able
to make things that actually blew up or made different colored flames,
or could melt steel, and all that kind of stuff.

Matter of fact, I had a Gilbert chemistry set with the "good stuff" in
it; Potassion Nitrate, Strontium Nitrate, Potassium Permanganate and its
friend Glycerine, Magnesium filings and ribbon, Sulfur, charcoal, a nice
little mortar and pestle and an instruction manual with PLENTY of
warnings.

Take a look at the pussy chemistry sets they have now and you're lucky
to get Boric acid, so that's not going to attract too many kids.

It's not often I agree with John Fields, but this time he's right. Kids
these days are far too protected. See my past earlier in this thread, and
don't think I am encouraging the building of amateur bombs, but the pendulum
has swung for to far the other way. Chemistry sets you can't do anything
with because they are safe above all else won't interest any kid in
chemistry or science in general.

Hey, John, isn't it amazing what you can do with potassium nitrate and icing
sugar!

John

 

[John Fortier]

Terry wrote:
T>
T>Thanks for the memory John:
T>Gosh. I remember those type of Chemistry Sets. What a stink I
T>used to make with 'Flowers of sulphur'!
T>Later spent over 40 years in radio/telecommunications/electronics
T>work! Still dabble.
T>Terry.

I was never interested in chemistry when I growing up! However, I was fascinated with
thermite and the intense heat it emitted. Just a little bit of iron ore and magnesium
shavings mix together and ignited. That would melt just about anything! Yep!

chesucat

Sounds like we were all lucky to survive to adulthood!

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

---
Our educational system has very little to do with it, I think, since (in
the early years _for sure_ they pretty much tend to pretend that
explosives don't exist. When I was a kid I was attracted to explosives
because they were exciting and dangerous and it was thrilling to be able
to make things that actually blew up or made different colored flames,
or could melt steel, and all that kind of stuff.

Matter of fact, I had a Gilbert chemistry set with the "good stuff" in
it; Potassion Nitrate, Strontium Nitrate, Potassium Permanganate and its
friend Glycerine, Magnesium filings and ribbon, Sulfur, charcoal, a nice
little mortar and pestle and an instruction manual with PLENTY of
warnings.

Take a look at the pussy chemistry sets they have now and you're lucky
to get Boric acid, so that's not going to attract too many kids.

The reference books in the school library had all the formulas and
instructions to make black powder, and nitroglycerine. Two of my friends
and I would make 20 pounds of black powder at a time, then we made our
own firecrackers.

We found a great use for empty 2 ounce glass bottles from our
chemistry sets. A nail hole in the lid, a 30 second fuse, and you could
glass blast the rust off lots of old junk. They were good for cleaning
the trash out of a culvert under the driveway, too.

 

[Owen Lawrence]

What does bomb creations have to do with basic electronics, aside from

the
snip

heard of nerds back then in 19 her humm, a friend of mine and I took up
rocket building. We were also into grinding our own mirrors for Cassgrain
Telescopes, but the rockets were a lot more dynamic, either vertically or,
all too often, horizontally!

My friends and I also tried to build rockts. The highest one ever went was
about three or four feet before it blew up. We did lots of experiments, but
pretty soon got tired of our rockets blowing up so we just made bombs
instead. We did this until my friend got hurt, when we broke a rule and
used a trail of match heads on a windy day instead of electrical ignition.
That was the last bomb.

I have been half hoping my own children would get interested in it, so I
could keep them safe instead of making them hide. Alas, the Gamecube seems
much more exciting to them. Just as well.

But the OP asked a what might be a little bit of a snarky question, but
it's a good one when turned around. Why do people interested in electronics
also seem interested in blowing things up? I don't speak for everyone here,
obviously, but plenty of you share my own general childhood experiences. If
we could find out what personality traits are to be cultivated, maybe we can
start producing some precocious techies.

As for me, I think I set off bombs because I like to set a system in
motion and watch it progress. I like to give my creations some degree of
autonomy. Who's going to stop a bomb from doing what it wants to do once it
gets going?

- Owen -

It worked beautifully, went up until we lost sight of it and, presumably,

P.S. Good job!

 

[Adam Aglionby]

the
else who happened to be nearby at the time.
So, please, Adam, don't encourage anyone to experiment with pyrotechnics.

Strange thing about pyro is it is actually hard to make a successful item.
Lack of proper ingredients or slack procedure more often than not will
result in something that will not even burn, never mind explode.

Unless the experimenter is a part of a group which actually knows what it's
doing, and by group I don't mean Hammas or their ilk, then they will be a
menace to themselves and everyone around them.

Indeed the way to learn about such things with the help and supervision of a
peer group, the determined reader was given pointers towards groups that may
offer assistance.

If they are building a bomb
with the intent to do harm with it, such encouragement borders on the
criminal.

To be honest I am more disturbed about the muttering of people about
Homeland Security in the U.S..Think Benjamin Franklin is generally
attributed the quote about those who would sacrifice freedom for security
deserving neither.

The original poster in the original thread was what has turned out to be a
reasonably succesful troll.But his method was somewhat similar to running
into a room full of adults and shouting "knickers!"

The knowledge of how explosives are made is not the same as being able to
make explosives.In the U.S. thanks to your constitution you have protected
free speech, part of this is people`s right to publish books on homemade
explosives, deadly toxins , homemade automatic weapons etc.Again being aware
of how these things are made is very differnt from being able to replicate
results.

So the answer to "I'm building a bomb, what do I need?" is either "A
different hobby." or "Psychiatric help."

a degree in chemistry or several years of lab experience would probably
help.

Adam

 

[Baphomet]

When I was a young idiot, well, nerd would be a better word, but nobody had
heard of nerds back then in 19 her humm, a friend of mine and I took up
rocket building. We were also into grinding our own mirrors for Cassgrain
Telescopes, but the rockets were a lot more dynamic, either vertically or,
all too often, horizontally!

We lived in Ontario, on the north shore of Lake Ontario, and our final
effort was a six foot job, fuelled by a mixture of sublimated sulfur and
powdered aluminum, chemically sintered using alchahol. For reasons known
only to 16 year olds, we decided that the safest place to fire it was south
into the lake.

It worked beautifully, went up until we lost sight of it and, presumably,
fell somewhere in the lake or, if it worked as well as it seemed, in New
York State, where I presently live. (If I ever find a long aluminum tube in
my garden, with a ceramic nozzle at one end and a lamp shade at the other,
I'll know where it came from.)

We were just packing up and putting our launch rail into the back of Ron's
dad's pickup, (which we had "borrowed") when the RCMP. the OPP and the RCAF
all turned up. Our rocket had set off a major NORAD alert!

Up to that time I didn't really know what the expression "deep shit" really
meant, but I sure found out over the next few hours. We were so grounded I
still sometimes wonder if I'm allowed out of the house!

What is this all leading up to. Well, there are ways to get interested in
science and there are other ways to get interested in science. Building
bombs and killer rockets are not good ways to get interested. People get
hurt. The builders blow their hands off, and get very little sympathy. We
were lucky, we managed to put together a working rocket, and survived to
tell the tale, but we could so easily have blown our fool heads off and
those of anyone else who happened to be nearby at the time.

So, please, Adam, don't encourage anyone to experiment with pyrotechnics.
Unless the experimenter is a part of a group which actually knows what it's
doing, and by group I don't mean Hammas or their ilk, then they will be a
menace to themselves and everyone around them. If they are building a bomb
with the intent to do harm with it, such encouragement borders on the
criminal.

So the answer to "I'm building a bomb, what do I need?" is either "A
different hobby." or "Psychiatric help."

John

Great post John