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Maker Pro

How to resolder a cold solder connection?

M

micky

Jan 1, 1970
0
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelayfix/index.html

Next to the fourth picture, it says:

"Removal of old solder As much of the old solder as possible was
removed in preparation for re-soldering. It is possible to simply
re-flow the old solder, but this method is better. "

Does anyone agree with that?

This ia an automotve electical device, a Honda main engine relay and
fuel pump relay, with a resistor and 3 diodes, and has 24 solder spots
on the circuti board. It seems to have a lot of cold solder problems
after a few years.

When you guys resolder, do you just heat it up and add a little more
solder, or do you clean off the old solder and start fresh? Thrifty
guy that I am, it never occurred to me that people would routinely do
the seocnd.


He calls it dry solder. Maybe that's the automotive term.
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"micky"
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelayfix/index.html

Next to the fourth picture, it says:

"Removal of old solder As much of the old solder as possible was
removed in preparation for re-soldering. It is possible to simply
re-flow the old solder, but this method is better. "

Does anyone agree with that?

** Yep.

When you guys resolder, do you just heat it up and add a little more
solder, or do you clean off the old solder and start fresh? Thrifty
guy that I am, it never occurred to me that people would routinely do
the seocnd.


** Wicking ( or using a de-soldering gun) to get the old solder off is
needed to look at the component leads or pins before re-soldering

If the lead looks shiny and tinned all over - fine.

If the lead looks dark and dry of solder - not fine.

Also, there is now the issue of mixing dissimilar solders - ie leaded and
unleaded.

I use Multicore "Savbit" solder for all repairs as it will not absorb
copper, has higher than usual strength and a very good flux core.


..... Phil
 
W

Winston

Jan 1, 1970
0
micky said:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelayfix/index.html

Next to the fourth picture, it says:

"Removal of old solder As much of the old solder as possible was
removed in preparation for re-soldering. It is possible to simply
re-flow the old solder, but this method is better. "

Does anyone agree with that?

Yes. Re-flowing is *possible* but risky, because
it generally results in a oxide-polluted 'cold' joint.

In either event, it is critical to apply separate flux
to the joint to float oxides out during the soldering
process. The improvement in quality is substantial.
This ia an automotve electical device, a Honda main engine relay and
fuel pump relay, with a resistor and 3 diodes, and has 24 solder spots
on the circuti board. It seems to have a lot of cold solder problems
after a few years.

When you guys resolder, do you just heat it up and add a little more
solder, or do you clean off the old solder and start fresh?

Honestly, I dab flux on the joint and reheat. It is quick
and effective. For joints that appear cold after that operation,
I remove the old solder, re-flux and use good quality leaded
solder. (Then *always* clean with a 50/50 mix of alcohol and naphtha).
That hasn't failed yet.
Thrifty guy that I am, it never occurred to me that people would
routinely do the seocnd.

After your first 10 repairs it goes a lot faster. :)
He calls it dry solder. Maybe that's the automotive term.

He meant to say:
""Cold" solder joints (a frosted appearance),"

Here is a classic example. Note the frosted
appearance of the solder and the lack of 'wetting'
on the pin:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Cold_solder_joint.jpg

--Winston
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"micky"
He calls it dry solder.


** In fact he said " Dry solder joint " - a very common term.

The word dry refers to a lack of " wetting " of one or both the metal
surfaces to be soldered.

If an otherwise solderable metal surface is contaminated with oxides or
similar, hot solder will simply refuse to alloy with it and there will be no
or only minimal electrical connection and no mechanical strength.

A frosted appearance on the joint is generally due to movement while
cooling, insufficient heat or the use of lead free solder.


..... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
<[email protected]>


What the other say is true but I wanted to add, those pictures of the
'good' soldering job is substandard soldering. After cleaning off the
old solder with a solder sucker and/or wick, the old flux should be
removed and again after the new soldering.


** What for ?

Solder flux is normally harmless and routinely left behind by many
manufacturers.



..... Phil
 
N

N_Cook

Jan 1, 1970
0
Winston said:
Yes. Re-flowing is *possible* but risky, because
it generally results in a oxide-polluted 'cold' joint.

In either event, it is critical to apply separate flux
to the joint to float oxides out during the soldering
process. The improvement in quality is substantial.


Honestly, I dab flux on the joint and reheat. It is quick
and effective. For joints that appear cold after that operation,
I remove the old solder, re-flux and use good quality leaded
solder. (Then *always* clean with a 50/50 mix of alcohol and naphtha).
That hasn't failed yet.


After your first 10 repairs it goes a lot faster. :)


He meant to say:
""Cold" solder joints (a frosted appearance),"

Here is a classic example. Note the frosted
appearance of the solder and the lack of 'wetting'
on the pin:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Cold_solder_joint.jpg

--Winston


There's me thinking all those decades that cold solder joint meant lack of
sweating, ie lack of wetting (melding) to the metal surface due to lack of
heating
 
W

Winston

Jan 1, 1970
0
N_Cook wrote:

(...)
There's me thinking all those decades that cold solder joint meant lack of
sweating, ie lack of wetting (melding) to the metal surface due to lack of
heating

It can.

A poor joint can result from lots of different
things. An overheated joint can also exhibit
'dewetting' because of rapid corrosion growth.

In casual Googling just now, I see some really
misleading information about proper electronic
soldering technique. That's a pity, because each
article I saw contains several good ideas with a
real stinker thrown in.

In one case, the user is cautioned (and I am not
making this up):
"The use of separate acid flux paste (e.g. as used
by plumbers) should NEVER be necessary in normal
electronics applications because electronics-grade
solder already contains the correct grade of flux!"
http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderfaq.htm

Well, of course one would never use *acid* flux on
an electrical or electronic joint. One uses a
flux compatible with one's properly selected solder.

In another case, the poor reader is bombarded
with information about 5 different kinds of solder,
3 of which should never be used on electronics.
http://www.elexp.com/t_solder.htm
They go on to imply that added flux is *always*
a bad idea. This is nonsense. Added flux
compatible with your properly selected solder is
*always* a good idea.

This video is difficult to watch for folks that
already know how to do electronic soldering because
it illustrates some really bad technique, initially.

It does go on to illustrate good technique but still
does not emphasize fluxing and joint prep properly IMHO.


--Winston
 
W

Winston

Jan 1, 1970
0
Allodoxaphobia said:
I think that is a left-ponder/right-ponder 'distinction'.

Naaah. I see that 'dry solder joint' is a real term.
It is a variety of 'cold solder' joint with insufficiently
wetted parts.

Avoid 'dry' joints by using careful joint preparation and
fluxing, proper soldering tools and techniques.

--Winston
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
<[email protected]
"Phil Allison" <

What the other say is true but I wanted to add, those pictures of the
'good' soldering job is substandard soldering. After cleaning off the
old solder with a solder sucker and/or wick, the old flux should be
removed and again after the new soldering.

** What for ?

Solder flux is normally harmless and routinely left behind by many
manufacturers.

Not the good ones.

** Circular argument.

Solder flux IS routinely left behind by many major manufacturers ( both
now and for decades into the past) and clearly does no harm.


So, it's OK to be a slob just because you can?


** Seems to be the way you go about YOUR thinking.

**** off - imbecile.
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
<[email protected]





Not the good ones.

** Circular argument.

Solder flux IS routinely left behind by many major manufacturers ( both
now and for decades into the past) and clearly does no harm.

So, it's OK to be a slob just because you can?

** Seems to be the way you go about YOUR thinking.

**** off - imbecile.


Look at the boards in you PC. See any flux?


** False argument again.

If leaving the flux behind on a PCB were a very bad thing, then you would
NEVER see it done by any equipment makers.

BTW:

Never hear of " NO clean " flux ???

Imbecile.



..... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
<[email protected]
Look at the boards in your PC. See any flux?

** False argument again.

If leaving the flux behind on a PCB were a very bad thing, then
you would NEVER see it done by any equipment makers.

BTW:

Never hear of " NO clean " flux ???

Imbecile.

Yeah. It's crap.

** You are a fucking, nut case moron.

You seem to be unaware that de-soldering in the old
flux will start to burn it and make it somewhat conductive


** Horse shit.

FOAD you stinking lunatic.


..... Phil
 
M

micky

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yes. Re-flowing is *possible* but risky, because
it generally results in a oxide-polluted 'cold' joint.

Finding more webpages on how to fix this car, I came across this,
probably from a different guy:
"It is likely that a layer of hard oxide has built up inside the
solder joint. The layer of hard oxide has to be removed by
desoldering. Other than this, there are no known mechanical problem
with the main relay. "

FTR, this followed "The Honda or Acura turns over but won't start in
hot weather is a symptom of a main relay going bad. This is the result
of the poor solder application from the factory. As a consequence,
raise areas on the joint indicate a "dry joint" which can lead to an
open circuit. The dry, open circuit is the main cause of no start.
This is partly caused by the buildup of heat on the terminals which
expand, contract and subject to vibrations.."

The relay is under the dash, so doesn't get the heat of the engine,
but it seems just the heat of the sun, inside a closed car, then
cooling off every day, thousands of times, causes problems, especially
in the summer. The first guy recommends resoldering this main relay
(fuel injectors and fuel pump) in any car over 8 years old.

The second guy acutally has an enalarged photo of the circuit board
with several joints marked and the symptoms when each is bad, whn you
hold the cursor over the circle! This must be a really common
problem.
http://techauto.tripod.com/mainrelay.htm

And a big tutorial on bad solder joints and resoldering.

But there are wackos who do great detail work too, so I didn't take
his oxide story seriously until you guys confirmed it.
In either event, it is critical to apply separate flux
to the joint to float oxides out during the soldering
process. The improvement in quality is substantial.

I see.

A 2001 Honda Accord EX, but all Hondas for the last 15 years seem to
use this part.
Honestly, I dab flux on the joint and reheat. It is quick
and effective. For joints that appear cold after that operation,
I remove the old solder, re-flux and use good quality leaded
solder. (Then *always* clean with a 50/50 mix of alcohol and naphtha).

Dang. I never clean joints I have soldered. :( I don't think
anyone ever told me to before.
That hasn't failed yet.


After your first 10 repairs it goes a lot faster. :)


He meant to say:
""Cold" solder joints (a frosted appearance),"

Here is a classic example. Note the frosted
appearance of the solder and the lack of 'wetting'
on the pin:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Cold_solder_joint.jpg

--Winston

Thanks, and thanks everyone.
 
M

micky

Jan 1, 1970
0
N_Cook wrote:

(...)

Me. too.

Yeah, but I thought that's what it always meant. In part, I'm
sure, because from age 9 to 19, all I had was a wood-burning iron,
which I never used to burn wood, and which was just a little too cold
to solder with well. It worked. but in the process I had loads of
cold solder joints that were really cold.
A poor joint can result from lots of different
things. An overheated joint can also exhibit
'dewetting' because of rapid corrosion growth.

In casual Googling just now, I see some really
misleading information about proper electronic
soldering technique. That's a pity, because each
article I saw contains several good ideas with a
real stinker thrown in.

In one case, the user is cautioned (and I am not
making this up):
"The use of separate acid flux paste (e.g. as used
by plumbers) should NEVER be necessary in normal
electronics applications because electronics-grade
solder already contains the correct grade of flux!"
http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderfaq.htm

Well, of course one would never use *acid* flux on
an electrical or electronic joint. One uses a
flux compatible with one's properly selected solder.

In another case, the poor reader is bombarded
with information about 5 different kinds of solder,
3 of which should never be used on electronics.
http://www.elexp.com/t_solder.htm
They go on to imply that added flux is *always*
a bad idea. This is nonsense. Added flux
compatible with your properly selected solder is
*always* a good idea.

This video is difficult to watch for folks that
already know how to do electronic soldering because
it illustrates some really bad technique, initially.

These are the reason I didnt' trust what I'd read about having to
desolder before resoldering. A lot of bad info out there, by people
who mean well.
 
W

Winston

Jan 1, 1970
0
micky said:
Me. too.


Yeah, but I thought that's what it always meant. In part, I'm
sure, because from age 9 to 19, all I had was a wood-burning iron,
which I never used to burn wood, and which was just a little too cold
to solder with well. It worked. but in the process I had loads of
cold solder joints that were really cold.

Insufficient heat will do it for sure.

If you still have that tool, I think it would be very
interesting to see if you could get good quality joints
by polishing the parts to be joined and using added flux
before applying heat.

Wood burning tools can generally achieve 500 F and
60/40 solder melts at ~476 F.

I'd never recommend this as a normal practice because there
is not enough thermal headroom to do a consistently good
job with larger joints and 60/40 solder is inferior to
63/37 solder for electronic applications, all else being
equal. Still, it would be interesting, yes?

(...)
These are the reason I didnt' trust what I'd read about having to
desolder before resoldering. A lot of bad info out there, by people
who mean well.

I understand the reason why they show the poor technique
initially. Hopefully, a user would recognize their way
of doing it and have a chance to correct. This isn't too
fantastic; I've seen some astoundingly bad technique used
by techs in companies that you would instantly recognize
the names of.

I got out of the biz before having to do *any*
'lead free' electronic soldering. I suspect that one
could do acceptable repairs with the proper tools.
I wouldn't expect that the proper techniques would
change much at all.

--Winston
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
<[email protected]>

** This loon is a Massive TROLL !!


Since I'm the one who got the system working by removing the solder
flux, I know it isn't equine excrement.


** Another nonsense argument.

The loony bins are full of crazies like this POS.
 
W

Winston

Jan 1, 1970
0
micky said:
(...)

The second guy acutally has an enalarged photo of the circuit board
with several joints marked and the symptoms when each is bad, whn you
hold the cursor over the circle! This must be a really common
problem.
http://techauto.tripod.com/mainrelay.htm

And a big tutorial on bad solder joints and resoldering.

I agree with just about everything presented on that page.
This relay board is likely to be corroded in the defective
joints, so I certainly see that removing the old solder
is a very Good Idea.

However:
1) Dab compatible flux on each joint before soldering.
A) I use standard old rosin flux so I selected a
matching liquid flux. I apply it from a HDPE
flux bottle.
http://assemblyoutfitters.com/images/EC-900-230-Flux-bottle.jpg
For maximum convenience, the stuff is available
in 'pen' form too:
http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/images/83-1000-0186.jpg
2) The advice to clean the board with steel wool is
extremely risky. Fine metal hairs are not something
you want in an electronic assembly. Use an acid
brush and a flux bottle full of 50/50 alcohol/naphtha.
But there are wackos who do great detail work too, so I didn't take
his oxide story seriously until you guys confirmed it.


I see.
(...)

A 2001 Honda Accord EX, but all Hondas for the last 15 years seem to
use this part.
(...)


Dang. I never clean joints I have soldered. :( I don't think
anyone ever told me to before.

Fluxes work by dissolving metal and suspending oxides.
They don't know when their job is complete. Sooooooo.... :)

(....)
Thanks, and thanks everyone.

Please let us know how it goes.

--Winston
 
D

Dave U. Random

Jan 1, 1970
0
Too bad your parents didn't sue the condom company for your unwanted
conception.

Too bad yer mother was dissuaded from flushing you down the toilet
when you were born. She took one look at yer fat, ugly,
snaggle-toothed, big-headed grotesqueness, and reached for the flush
handle.

But yer retarded daddy stopped her, saying, "I can use him for slave
labor in my oil field until he's 18, then boot his ugly ass out the
door. I'll not give him a cent of our accumulated wealth, he's
obviously far too retarded to manage money."

And yer daddy was right. After he died, yer mommy took pity on you,
giving you a portion of her wealth, which you promptly blew.

That's why yer poor. That's why you subsist on $25 per week of food,
that's why you drive a broke-down 8 year old, 80,000 mile GMC
crapmobile, that's why you have $8666.97 in unpaid credit card debt
that you can't pay even when ordered to by the courts, that's why yer
retarded son can't afford to go to college unless he gets a full
scholarship (and we all know that'll never happen!).

Face it, Willy. Yer a broke-down, broke-ass, old geezer loser.

Fixed yer .sig.

Yer welcome.


--

___ ___ ___
/\ \ /\__\ /\ \
/::\ \ ___ /:/ _/_ \:\ \
/:/\:\ \ ___ /\__\ /:/ /\__\ \:\ \
/:/ /::\ \ /\ \ /:/__/ /:/ /:/ _/_ _____\:\ \
/:/_/:/\:\__\\:\ \ ___ /::\ \ /:/_/:/ /\__\ /::::::::\__\
\:\/:/ \/__/ \:\ \ /\__\ \/\:\ \__ \:\/:/ /:/ / \:\~~\~~\/__/
\::/__/ \:\ /:/ / ~~\:\/\__\ \::/_/:/ / \:\ \
\:\ \ \:\/:/ / \::/ / \:\/:/ / \:\ \
\:\__\ \::/ / /:/ / \::/ / \:\__\
\/__/ \/__/ \/__/ \/__/ \/__/


WHO IS 'MEAT PLOW' from Alt.Usenet.Kooks (AUK)?

The obese, abusive, ugly, snaggle-toothed, giant-headed, gay 'bear'
biker retard who likes to surf gay porn sites as 'BlancoBear' while
wearing only assless chaps:

William Malone Griffith, Jr.
(aka Milt, Meat Plow, BlancoBear, [email protected], Tripp)
308 10th Street NE
North Canton, OH 44720-2023

Some of this sick ****'s best work, and comments from others about
him:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.buzzard.rules/msg/f630759d6303a19d
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

Willy claims to be a member of SPUTUM (Subgenius Police, Usenet
Tactical Unit, Mobile), but subgenius doesn't even BEGIN to describe
Willy...
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.net-people/msg/b42fac45ef5210f9
Is yer CapsLock on, Willy?

Evidence that Meat Plow is William Malone Griffith, II:
--------------------
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usenet.kooks/msg/5650f8e1e7dedefa
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/msg/e52ffbb346f5b764
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usenet.kooks/msg/a94a2a11df601e39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/msg/ef80aad2e7db945d
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
--------------------

Meat Plow personal info:
--------------------
Birthdate: Oct 3, 1955

Amateur Radio callsign N8NCX
Technician Plus
(2 meter, 6 meter)
--------------------


--------------------
Photo of MeatPlow in Belden Village Music store (his sister's music
store):
(Note the guitars in the background, the planet-sized head,
the rotten-Chiclet teeth, and general look of retardation)
http://www.productwiki.com/william-malone-griffith-ii/lists/
http://images.productwiki.com/upload/images/william_malone_griffith_ii_avatar_1_0-150-150.jpg

Photo of William Malone Griffith, Jr. from uffnet.com:
(Note that it's the same person as in the photo above)
http://www.uffnet.com/library/headlines/images/news1376621745xlb.jpg

He's got his father's nose and eyes:
http://www.legacy.com/guestbook/kentucky/guestbook.aspx?pid=2527782
http://mi-cache.legacy.com/usercontent/guestbook/photos/2005-09/6966764.jpg
--------------------

Meat Plow email addresses:
--------------------
http://web.archive.org/web/20010305113423/http://www.k1hk.org/ugb_archive3.html
"Bill N8NCX [email protected]"

wgriffit at neo.rr.com (neo = North East Ohio)
mhywattt at yahoo.com
mhywatt at yahoo.com
--------------------

Meat Plow admits to being from Ohio:
--------------------
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
--------------------

Meat Plow's brushes with the law:
--------------------
1}
http://www.starkcountycjis.org/crim...ss_first_name=William&pass_last_name=Griffith

2}
http://www.starkcountycjis.org/civi...?case_year_no=2009-3533&litigant_txt=Griffith
--------------------

Meat Plow quotes:
--------------------
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
"I have no shame here in Usenet."

Message-ID: <[email protected]>
"I'd bet $200.00 of that Keiser money you still have that you will
leave before me."

Meat Plow describes his high-powered legal team:
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
"You know i have a legal team who specializes in internet law. And I
won't hesitate to get them in on the action."

Message-ID: <[email protected]>
"I haven't changed nor do I plan on it any time in the near future.
And yes I am bullet-proof as I have proved it."

Meat Plow visits a massage parlor for a Happy Ending massage.
But they refused to give him a Happy Ending his second time there.
That explains why he's gay, he can't even PAY for HAND JOBS from
women.
-----
http://www.clreviews.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11679
"One time I got a HE, and the 2nd time I didn't. I was asked if I was
there both times and said I was. That's is why I didn't know if I said
something wrong the 2nd time which made me not get a HE."

Well, at least we know what he does with his weekends.
-----

Meat Plow losing his connection to reality, insinuating that he's law
enforcement:
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
"I could be LE posing as Meat Plow. It can't be dis-proven."

--------------------


Oh, William, what would yer family say if they learned yer secrets?

Mother:
...----------------------------.
Catherine & Angelo Griffith

4760 Echovalley St. NW
North Canton, OH 44720-7504
330-494-5785
'----------------------------'


Daughter:
...----------------------------.
Julia M. Griffith

308 10th Street NE
North Canton, OH 44720-2023
'----------------------------'


Sister:
...----------------------------------------.
Pamela L. & Roger R. Werling
{ son Todd E. Werling (Ft. Wayne, IN) }
{ son Chris (Kennesaw, GA) }
{ son Keith (Ft. Wayne, IN) }
{ grandson Easton }
{ grandson Zakary }
{ granddaughter Camella }

7704 Bisque Court
Fort Wayne, IN 46825-3501
260-489-6086
'----------------------------------------'


Sister:
...----------------------------------------------.
Cheryl J. & Jason 'Sparky' Humberto E. Rivera
{ daughter Christina }
{ daughter Rosalio (North Canton, OH) }
{ daughter Maria (North Canton, OH) }
{ son Len Gray (Ft. Worth, TX) }

5225 Echo Valley St. NW
North Canton, OH 44720-9702
----------------------------------------------
Belden Village Music
6787 Wales Ave NW
North Canton, OH 44720
beldenvillagemusic.com
330-497-9292
----------------------------------------------
Rosalio B & Maria I Rivera
444 Wales Rd. NE
Massillon, OH 44646-5875
330-833-4291
----------------------------------------------
PO Box 35093
Canton, OH 44735
'----------------------------------------------'


Sister:
...---------------------------------------.
Carol L. & Ric A. Campbell
{ son Richard }
{ son Christopher (North Canton, OH) }
{ son Brandon († 30 May 1996) }
{ daughter Erin }

6794 William Tell Ave NW
North Canton, OH 44720-6546
330-497-7980
330-499-5107
---------------------------------------
PO Box 36473
Canton, OH 44735
'---------------------------------------'


Sister:
...----------------------------------.
Christine H. & Shelton M. Vick
{ son Matthew }

3915 Harvard Ave NW
Canton, OH 44709-1538
330-493-5645
----------------------------------
Re/Max Edge Realty
North Canton / Massillon / Canton
Realtor Christine H. Vick

6929 Portage St. NW
North Canton, OH 44720-6535
330-236-5100
888-830-6509 (fax)
330-904-0883 (cell)
www.MyOhioHomeFinder.com
[email protected]
'----------------------------------'


Sister:
...----------------------------.
Angela C. & Mark Warshefski

11 SE 12th St.
Pompano Beach, FL 33060
954-785-4716
----------------------------
4760 Echovalley St. NW
North Canton, OH 44720-7504
330-942-0584
'----------------------------'


Cousin:
...-------------------------.
Eddy Dailey

Bergholz Super Mart
861 Washington St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
740-768-1018
-------------------------
Bergholz Financial Corp.
dba SuperMart
PO Box 545
524 Garfield St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
'-------------------------'


Cousin:
...--------------------.
Donna L. Dailey

524 5th St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
740-768-2416
--------------------
Bergholz Super Mart
861 Washington St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
740-768-1018
--------------------
Bergholz, OH EMT
'--------------------'


Cousin:
...-------------------.
Bill & Joyce Leas
{ son Billy }

243 2nd St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
'-------------------'


Niece:
...---------------------------.
Rachel & Adam T. Livengood
{ son Lukas }
{ daughter Lauren }

6342 Palmer Dr. NW
Canton, OH 44718
330-497-7754
'---------------------------'


Izzatchoo, or yer dead daddy?
...--------------------------------.
William M. Griffith

between 3rd and 4th St.
between Monroe and Lincoln Ave.
Bergholz, OH 43908
740-768-2539
'--------------------------------'


What would yer landlord for 308 10th St. NE,
North Canton, OH say if they learned yer secrets?
...----------------------------.
David S. and Joan R. Shaner

2095 Waterbury Dr.
Uniontown OH 44312
330-699-4042
'----------------------------'


What would the employees at yer family's
business say if they learned yer secrets?
...-----------------------------------------.
Ohio Kentucky Oil Corporation
aka Ohio Oil & Gas Exploration (defunct)
aka Ohio Kentucky Coal Company (defunct)

5112 Portage St. NW
Canton, OH 44720-6856
(330) 494-8810
(330) 497-7980
-----------------------------------------
110 E. Lowry Lane
Lexington, KY 40503
(800) BUY 4 OIL
(800) 289-4645
(859) 223-5656
(859) 223-5946
(859) 276-0699 (fax)
(859) 276-3500
(859) 276-4080
-----------------------------------------
http://www.ohiokentuckyoil.com
[email protected]
[email protected]
'-----------------------------------------'


----------
Oh, but wait, Ohio Oil & Gas Exploration is no longer incorporated in
Ohio:
Daddy Griffith's petrol exploration company (defunct):
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:3376481605987832::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:384125

Nor are any of the other businesses yer daddy started. You let them
all fail:
Daddy Griffith's stables (defunct):
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:3376481605987832::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:377966

Daddy Griffith's motel business (defunct):
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:3376481605987832::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:377965

Daddy Griffith's drilling company (defunct):
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:3376481605987832::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:347837

Daddy Griffith's metals business (defunct):
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:3376481605987832::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:552193

And Ohio Kentucky Oil Corporation is on its last legs, inundated with
securities fraud lawsuits and EPA lawsuits. It's barred from
soliciting investors in Tennessee due to securities fraud, it's under
investigation in Ohio and Kentucky, it owns no oil assets or wells,
and it no longer does any of its own drilling. It'll be gone soon,
too.

And you've squandered everything Daddy Griffith earned from his
businesses, so yer now poor, adding insult to injury.
----------


You being poor is why you issued the following. You knew you didn't
have ten thousand dollars or so to defend yerself against yet another
lawsuit:

William Malone Griffith, II's grovelfest of an apology for being a
fucktard stauker:
==================================================
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usenet.kooks/browse_thread/thread/8d753c94bd612f4e
http://www.freak-search.com/en/thread/3859383/meat_plow_exposed
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usenet.kooks/msg/c9fccf0d1ab26ace
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

Title: Apology to Charles Novins

The witnesses to this abject, groveling apology:

Angela Griffith = Angela C. Griffith-Warshefski, William Malone
Griffith, Jr.'s sister

Catherine Griffith = William Malone Griffith, Jr.'s mother

Julia M. Griffith = William Malone Griffith, Jr.'s daughter

Cheri Griffith = Cheryl J. Griffith-Rivera, William Malone Griffith,
Jr.'s sister

Justin M. Griffith = ?

Kristy Griffith = Christine H. Griffith-Vick, William Malone Griffith,
Jr.'s sister

-----

Questions yet to be answered:
Who is Justin M. Griffith?

Angela C. Griffith-Warshefski came all the way from Pompano Beach,
Florida to witness and sign MeatPlow's apology letter?

Or did William Malone Griffith, Jr. forge the witness signatures,
which would indicate some level of insincerity in the apology?

If William Malone Griffith, Jr. did indeed forge the witness
signatures, is his family cognizant of him using them in this way?

Who is Deborah Ann Griffith?

-----
Who is Sherri Renee Christie, William D. Christie (age 54) and Lillie
L. Christie, and how are they associated with William Malone Griffith,
II?

1345 Bison St. NW
Massillon, OH 44647
330-833-5313 (Sherri)
330-837-4967 (William)

2524 Meadows Ave NW
Apt. 4
Massillon, OH 44647

PO Box 36221
Canton, OH 44735
-----

==================================================

It's time for a digital enema to flush this turd named William Malone
Griffith, II out of the system.

The exit is -.
|
'-----.
.---. .-----. |
| | '---. | |
'-. `-----|-' |
| '---'
'------------->
thataway
..
 
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