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Hunter Ceiling Fan Receiver

H2814D

Nov 4, 2017
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Hi all. I have tried long enough, and now am reaching out to the experts.

I have a Hunter Ceiling Fan with a remote control that controls the fan speeds (3) and the lights. The lights are incandescent and dimmable, 60 watt candelabra style bulbs. There are two of them in the fixture. Recently, when turning on the lights, one of the bulbs blew. This isn't the first time this has happened, since I have three of this same model fan, and have had to replace an occasional bulb in each one of them every so often. In this case, however, the bulb seemed to blow in an abnormal way, seeming to "buzz" a bit longer than the usual fraction of a second it usually takes one to blow and then go out.

Anyway, after replacing the bulb, the fan still worked properly, however, the light would not dim all the way down to off. It would dim down by holding the light button down as it dims, but would reach about halfway down, and then go back to full brightness. Additionally, the usual button (same one used to dim) used on the remote to turn the light off no longer turns the light off. It just dims it about halfway from full brightness, if that makes sense.

I have taken the same remote control and used it on another fan, and it works perfectly. I have also taken one of the other remote controls and used it on the problem fan and am getting the same result as the original remote. It is not the remote.

So I took the receiver apart and started doing some visual troubleshooting. Nothing was visually abnormal. I then started looking at the components closest to the light output wires. Those wires are the wht/blk and wht. The wht wire is connected on the PCB to the AC Neutral from the mains. The blk/wht wire circuit goes through several components before exiting the PCB along with the wht to the two wire light connection. These are the wires for the light.

I started testing the usual suspect components (caps) first with an ESR Meter. A 100uf 16V showed an out of range ESR, so I replaced it. It is now green in the pics. No luck. Th rest of the e-caps tested fine with the ESR Meter.

At that point, I decided to work backward from the blk/wht wire light output and check the components from there. There is a triac (BTA08-600C) on a heatsink that I removed and tested. It is near the large coil on what would be the left corner of the PCB in the pics. It tested bad, as I was getting a reading from MT2 and the gate in both directions with a multimeter. I thought I had my problem found, so I sourced and replaced that triac. Upon powering back up, the lamp came on, quickly flashed back to not quite off a couple of times, and then stayed on full brightness. At this point, I could no longer get the light to dim at all, and it still wouldn't turn off. If I hit the light button, I would get a very, almost indiscernible faint "flicker" from the light, but nothing else. I removed that triac and tested it. It still tested OK with a multimeter as far as readings go. I reinstalled it. Note that I am limited to testing components with a multimeter and and ESR Meter.

I then tested the two diodes on the top portion of the board. There is one that leads to the triac, and there is another one that is between the three yellow large plastic wrapped caps to the right of the triac. The diodes checked ok. I then found another transistor in between the same large yellow caps. It is a D882 NPN. I pulled it and tested it. It tested bad, but I don't remember why now, but it did, so I sourced and replaced it. Note, however, when I received my new ones, the old one, that tested bad before was testing fine this time. That was very weird and odd to me. I replaced it with a new one anyway.

Upon powering back up, the light comes on, but does not change with the light button. It remains at full brightness. Just for the fun of it, even though it checked ok, I decided to replace the other e-cap on the top of the board right in the center where the board 90 degrees. It was a 220uF 35V. I didn't have a 35, so I used a 50V. It fit. There are other e-caps on the antenna section, but I did not replace them. I haven't tested them either, as it would require removing the antenna PCB from the board. I can, but I haven't yet. Should I?

Note that the diode to the right of the D882, says "D2," but the other one that looks just like it (in size, color, and shape), next to the triac says "Z1." Are "Z" designated diodes zener diodes? When I tested them, I did remove one leg, but is there a difference in the test procedure for a zener as opposed to a regular one? Like I said, they both tested ok.

Here is another question. Because I had removed and replaced the triac so many times, I damaged the PCB pads and the traces slightly where MT1 is on the triac. With a continuity check, MT1 was connected to the anode of the Z1 diode, one end of the blue varistor near it, and also over to a point on the very corner of the left side of the board, where it goes through to the other side and is connected to an smd capacitor on the soldered side of the PCB. Am I wrong in thinking that as long as I connect each one of those points with a hard wire, then that should satisfy the circuit requirements? If you look closely, that is what I did.

Here are some other observations. On each leg of the triac, when ac power is supplied to the receiver, I am getting 120 volts ac (approximately close to the test transformer ac input I am using) and back to the neutral wire. Is that normal?

So at this point, I am stuck and need to know what I should check next. Should I pull that closest varistor and check it? It doesn't have any visible signs of damage, but I know that may not mean anything. Would I have the means to test it with just a multimeter?

Sorry for such a long post, but I figured I would get most of the questions answered early. And there are lots of pics. If anything else is needed, let me know.

Thanks, guys, for your help, if any. I realize I could probably just buy a new one, but this is now a challenge for me. I may or may not win, but I still want to try.
 

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kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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There are other e-caps on the antenna section, but I did not replace them. I haven't tested them either, as it would require removing the antenna PCB from the board. I can, but I haven't yet. Should I?
Only the electrolytics and large (yellow) PP capacitors need checking.
Are "Z" designated diodes zener diodes?
Not in this case - it will be a device called a DIAC.
On each leg of the triac, when ac power is supplied to the receiver, I am getting 120 volts ac (approximately close to the test transformer ac input I am using) and back to the neutral wire. Is that normal?
Possibly - the waveforms aren't sinusoidal at every pin (changes shape with light level setting) and your meter might not be good enough to sense the difference.
Should I pull that closest varistor and check it?
You've done practically every other component! But, no, this is not likely to be the cause.

Z1 is potentially the culprit.

It's difficult (too time consuming) to decipher that wiring rats nest and trace the supply route but given the TRIAC is part of a simple DAIC/TRIAC dimmer the control signals (pulses) must come from the receiver chip but tracing it isn't fun (from here) and isn't easy without a 'scope either.

I'm assuming the relays control the fan motor speed and have nothing to do with the lighting.
 

H2814D

Nov 4, 2017
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Kellys_eye, thanks for the reply. The item you are saying is a DIAC is in the photos. The number on it I am not finding when I search for a datasheet. This is what is on the component: EIC9D 224D5. Closest I can come is a 24D5, but that doesn't look the same. Is it a DIAC?
 

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Delta Prime

Jul 29, 2020
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EIC9D 224D5. Closest I can come is a 24D5, but that doesn't look the same. Is it a DIAC?

No. not a diac.Note: "EZ" will be omitted on the markings of the diode hence 224D5. Zener diode. ;)
 

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H2814D

Nov 4, 2017
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No. not a diac.Note: "EZ" will be omitted on the markings of the diode hence 224D5. Zener diode. ;)
Thanks Delta. So I am still having a hard time locating that specific component. I can find a 2EZ24D5 (https://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/59666/EIC/2EZ24D5.html) but is that the same diode? It is missing one "2". Mine is marked as 224D5, and if I add the 2EZ to that, I should get 2EZ224D5, which I can't find. Unless that line between the two two's is there to separate them for some reason. I see a faint reddish brown line between them when I magnify the picture.

Actually, that line isn't there after all. Must have just been the lighting. See a closer pic.
 

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Delta Prime

Jul 29, 2020
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Look carefully at the data sheet it is from the semiconductor manufacturer EIC in their series of "2EZ" that is your diode!!! Now how about a thumbs up.
 

Delta Prime

Jul 29, 2020
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I see you also have a crystal ball I would have known that but mine's buffering right now bravo!!
I think we will get along just fine!
 

H2814D

Nov 4, 2017
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if you have any other questions please do not hesitate to ask.
Well here is one that wasn't answered by Kellys_eye. The circuits from Pin 1 of the Triac had traces that went to different places on the PCB. I followed them with a continuity check to locate exactly where they went. Because I had damaged the pad there, am I able to hardwire each point from Pin1 to their specific location on the board without a problem? I would guess so, since the traces all connected to that pin anyway. Thanks for your help.
 

Delta Prime

Jul 29, 2020
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just in case you have difficulty acquiring that particular manufacturer's diode there are others manufacturers Different manufacturers put their codes on the diodes it doesn't have to be from EIC . A substitute can be found digikey or Mauser by using a parametric search which is parameters which is also known as specifications specifications are given on the data sheet on the top row and their values I highlighted yours. You want to match normal zener voltage, maximum zener impedance, maximum reverse leakage current, and maximum DC zener current. And take a look at note number two. the red arrow
Other manufacturers may have or may not use that designation it doesn't really matter as long as the specifications are met. In this case for zeners exactly.
Screenshot_20230527_221820_1685251301801.png
 

H2814D

Nov 4, 2017
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Thanks, Delta. I was able to find another manufacturer's component and have them ordered. Once they arrive, I will be able to tell if it was, or was not, the problem component. I don't see an actual DIAC on that board anywhere, unless I just don't know what I am looking for or at, so I am hoping this zener is acting as one here. I have read that triacs and diacs are often used together. By the time I'm done, I should have an almost completely replaced set of components on that board. :)
 

Delta Prime

Jul 29, 2020
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Thanks, Delta. I was able to find another manufacturer's component and have them ordered.
You're are most certainly welcome.
That's a total of three "thanks" for me... I cannot express how good that makes me feel you made my day. :)
 

H2814D

Nov 4, 2017
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Hi again, all. Well I was able to source the triac (BTA08-600C) and the zener diode (24D5) and have installed both of them. I also replaced a D882 Transistor that is in the same circuit. I also changed out three e-caps in the antenna section, since they showed an out of range ESR. When I power up, the lamps come on, but I am hearing what sounds like a slow electrical short circuit buzzing noise after about 10-15 seconds, and pin 1 of the triac starts to sizzle because of the heat, so I quickly shut everything down. Note that all of the components are in their respective places correctly, minding the polarity and pin placement of each.

I do not have the heat sink connected to the triac when I am doing the testing, since I am only testing the function-ability of the unit before I put it all back together. I did not have the problem with the sizzling triac before. I want to make sure the lights work as they are supposed to with the remote. As stated above, the light button is supposed to dim the lights down to an off state when the button is held down, or turn them higher with the button pushed after it has made it to the off state, and then also turn them either on or off when the button is simply pressed and released.

For reference, pin one of the triac is connected to the anode of the zener diode there and also runs over to the corner of the board to some of the very small smd caps on the other side of the board (the soldered side). Pin two of the triac goes through that larger coil behind the triac, and the other end of that coil is connected to the hot output lead of the board to the lights. Pin three goes to the soldered side on the back of the PCB through a resistor and to that smaller BJT transistor (tested good, by the way) there. I'm guessing pin 3 is the circuit that controls what that triac does?

So I am confused as to what would be causing triac pin 1 to get so hot so quickly. I wouldn't think it was because of the heat sink, because I have powered this thing on before while doing the initial testing and it didn't get that hot, but then I don't know for sure either. Would removing that triac and testing the voltages at each pin give me any clues? Or does that triac need to be there to get readings from the pins? Any ideas? And thanks in advance for any replies.
 

kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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pin 1 of the triac starts to sizzle
How are you defining 'pin 1'? If you wish to receive the right advice you need to be more clear on how you define things. If, as I currently understand, pin 1 is the M1 terminal of the triac then the 'sizzling' is ether due to improper soldering or there's an external short and the triac is overloaded.

If, however, pin 1 is 'the other end' then that is the gate pin and indicative of an internal short (of the triac).

Since the fault seems to be particular to the power control (triac) side of the system you really need to develop the schematic (reverse engineer) to establish the method of control. Most (all?) basic triac power control circuits I've come across utilise a DIAC in the gate circuit of the triac - I'm unable to fathom the use of a zener in such an appliaction hence the need to develop a schematic.

Show us a CLOSE UP of both sides of the board around the TRIAC end of the circuit.
 

H2814D

Nov 4, 2017
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How are you defining 'pin 1'?
I am using the datasheet for the BTA08-600C. Pin 1 is A1. Pin2 is A2. Pin 3 is Gate.

Attached are photos of the Triac side of the board, front and back. Sorry, but trying to provide you with an actual reverse engineered schematic, is a bit above my skill level.

Additionally, following the Gate circuit, and one of the red wires from it, it leads me back to the area near the remote control receiver side of the board on the far opposite end. There is a three pin blue colored component there. See the pic. It has "4.DMC TDK LT" on it. I am not finding anything else that would look like a Diac on that board anywhere and from what I have read about Diacs, there should only be two pins.

Here is another thing that has popped up while messing with this. I was able to source the BTA08-600C Triac from two different places. I usually get my stuff from Mouser, but they didn't have them. I have a component tester, although basic, and it provides me with two different outcomes from the two component sources. Testing another piece of the same component that is in the circuit now, only reads as a resistor. The other one, which I have not tried in the circuit, reads as a transistor, and at least closer to what a Triac should read. See the pics.

Looking at the the tester and the transistor photo, would the pinout be proper for this circuit, with Pin 2 being the hot lead that would supply the power for the lights? And could the "sizzling" and overheating of Pin 1 problem be because of a faulty/phony set of Triacs from the one source? I will wait for the answer as to the proper pinout of the transistor in the photo, before I swap it into the circuit. And I realize a typical transistor and a triac are two different things. It could just be the readout capabilities of the tester.

Thanks again for your help, guys.

One other thing. The black wire running from anode of the Zener Diode to the corner of the board had to be placed there due to me damaging the pad. There was a trace from Pin 1 to where I have soldered that wire there. Pin 1 is also connected with another wider trace to the anode of that Zener Diode to the right of the Triac. Is it acceptable to run that wire from the diode anode to where it is, or would I need to come off of Pin 1 to where it is? They (the Zener diode and the trace to the end of the black wire) are both connected together at and to Pin 1. I had asked that question before, but it wasn't answered. Thanks again.
 

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