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Injector driver

Andy123abc

Dec 28, 2022
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Cylinder identification sensor working properly. It is dragging the 0.01v down to zero. New sensor and old used sensors they all have same voltage readings 0.01v when number 6 sylinder spark plug is firing. This sensor seat on spark plug wire of the sixth cylinder and pick up small AC voltage and send to the engine ECU. What does program a DIY mean ?
 

Andy123abc

Dec 28, 2022
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What do you think this 5v on wiring diagram the sensor send small AC voltage to the engine ECU or the engine ECU should have present 5v when ignition is ON ?
 

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kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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It is dragging the 0.01v down to zero.
You can't just measure something coming out of the sensor - it may well be a signal that requires amplification or other processing before it can deliver the correct signal. As a stand-alone sensor that small voltage actually sounds correct...... normally you'd have 5V applied to one side of the sensor and the sensor itself will 'pull' the 5V to ground (0V) to create a 5V pulse that the ECU can use. This is why you see it 'dragging 'it' down to 0V. Just noticed the image you posted which confirms what I've just said.

What does program a DIY mean ?

The 'DIY' refers to the after-market ECU devices that have been developed by 'amateurs' but they work in a professional manner and have all the support you could ever ask for. Megasquirt and Microsquirt are but two examples (Google them). They allow connection to 'any' modern ECU-controlled motor, replacing the stock ECU entirely but having all the parameters available to the user to program themselves (but also supplied with a basic get-you-running program).

ECU's are no longer the reserve of the OEM, with their annoying refusal to reveal coding and/or the processes needed to access them (without very expensive manufacturers programmers of course). The open-source market is now large enough to encompass such devices and offer credible, working alternatives.
 

Andy123abc

Dec 28, 2022
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I just measure something coming out of the sensor which was disconnected from ECU plug while the engine was running the voltage reading was 0.01v and aslo I did check when sensor was connected to the engine ECU plug when engine was running the voltage reading was same 0.01v. what do you thing this is ECU not working properly or sensor itself not working properly ? I did check many same sensors they all have same reading voltage 0.01v
 

Andy123abc

Dec 28, 2022
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Could you help me to understand where this wire connected in circuit board pin 8 and pin 31 become together and go somewhere ?
 

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Andy123abc

Dec 28, 2022
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Here don't need to download
 

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kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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I just measure something coming out of the sensor which was disconnected from ECU plug while the engine was running the voltage reading was 0.01v and aslo I did check when sensor was connected to the engine ECU plug when engine was running the voltage reading was same 0.01v. what do you thing this is ECU not working properly or sensor itself not working properly ? I did check many same sensors they all have same reading voltage 0.01v

The output from the sensor itself will be minuscule - most test meters wouldn't even register a signal at all and certainly a person unfamiliar with what they were expecting/looking at would have no idea if it was right or wrong. It could be shown, very positively, using an oscilloscope - not even an expensive one! There are cheap (£20) 'scopes that would show the signal (not that you actually need to see it for yourself - take my word for it!).

Regardless, the signal, as applied to the components shown as attached to pins 8/31, must be a small sinusoidal signal as the circuitry is designed to rectify it and deliver a single pulse to the following circuitry - whatever that is; it's not shown...... The sensor can be inferred to be a piezo-type device (basically a crystal) as it doesn't require a supply voltage, it generates one. Piezo crystals do just that - they take mechanical movement (detonation) and convert it to a small electrical signal.

The circuitry inside the ECU (in respect to the input from the detonation sensing) is very unlikely to be damaged as there's nothing short of a lightning strike that could do harm. That the ECU is firing the injectors (albeit, according to you, both sets at the same time) means the output side also seems ok.

Are you SURE they are firing 'together' and not individually?
Also when ignition is ON the engine ECU should have present 5v at connector of cylinder identification sensor there is no 5v present.
Not according to the schematic......

Given the signal is very small it could be that it is being 'lost' on the way - is the wiring secure? What form is the cable carrying this signal i.e. is it a screened cable or two cores? I'd suggest that the signal 'should' be carried on a screened cable (or a twisted-pair) to prevent interference and that the wiring certainly should be kept away from other 'noisy' signal wires (such as ignition cables). If it is screened cable then is the screen properly earthed (grounded) as this is essential to protect the signal from the noise.
 

Andy123abc

Dec 28, 2022
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oscilloscope or digital meter have same readings. On wiring diagram shown 5v reference from the sensor or from the ECU and that could be check it with scope or meter no metter what tool you are using when engine is running if there is no 5v present when engine is running the sensor connected or disconnected the engine running same sound with misfire. If engine running without misfire then CID sensor disconnected then engine get misfire.
 
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kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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On wiring diagram shown 5v reference from the sensor or from the ECU
Where? I must have missed that. The sensor you're talking about connects to pins 8 and 31 doesn't it? There's no indication of a 5V supply there. D561 would block any 5V from reaching the sensor anyway. 'Vehicle Speed Input' (just above) has a 5V source...... nothing to do with the cylinder signal though.

The signal from the sensor is 'fast' which means a normal test meter won't show the peak value which could be 10's of volts - I have no real idea without measuring it!
 

Andy123abc

Dec 28, 2022
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5v reference at pin 8 and pin 31 is ground.
 

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kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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There is no 5V at pin 8 if the actual schematic (not that 'abbreviated') diagram shows. The abbreviated (wiring) schematic infers the internal arrangement after the signal conditioning circuit (R560 to R566 and the diodes D560 and D561). This conditioning circuit is 'classical' for rectifying a varying AC signal input as would be produced by the sensor. D561 prevents any DC appearing at pin 8

What the 'abbreviated' schematic shows is the SHIELD (screening) that is essential for proper operation and that the shield appears to be broken at some point (passing though a connector or bulkhead maybe) but the shield MUST be continuous throughout its length.

Connector X1521 (pin 3) carries this shielding connection and needs to be checked.
 

Andy123abc

Dec 28, 2022
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Connector X1521 (pin 3) carries this shielding connected to ECU ground pin 19. The problem could be sensor wiring terminals is mess it up. Sensor terminal 1 needs to be replaced with terminal 2. In sensor difficult to replace terminals 1 with 2 but in ECU connectors plug it is easy.
 

kellys_eye

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Connector X1521 (pin 3) carries this shielding connected to ECU ground pin 19. The problem could be sensor wiring terminals is mess it up. Sensor terminal 1 needs to be replaced with terminal 2. In sensor difficult to replace terminals 1 with 2 but in ECU connectors plug it is easy.
I don't think the sensor is polarity conscious - it can be connected either way around and should make no difference. The shield connections is, however, VERY important.
 

Andy123abc

Dec 28, 2022
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maybe connected to wrong ECU pins if is not make any difference when engine is running when sensor plugged in or unplug out. How may I check if sensor shielding connected good in sensor or not short ?
 
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kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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How may I check if sensor shielding connected good in sensor or not short ?
The shield ultimately connects to the vehicle ground so you should be able to measure a short from any point on the shield itself (and on pin 3 of the connector) to ground.
 

Andy123abc

Dec 28, 2022
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Yes shielding looks good pin 3 of the sensor goes to ECU harness. Do you have any advise how to fix injectors wiring ? The engine ECU has two pins 16 and 17 which controlls injectors ground. ECU pin 16 connected with injectors ground all 3 together is 1-3-5. And ECU pin 17 also connected with 3 injectors ground is 2-4-6. When I check it injectors 1 and 2 is connected together and connected also with ECU pins 16 and 17 ? Same thing with injectors 2 and 3 also connected together with ECU pins 16 and 17. The ECU pin 16 should not have 2nd injector connected to.
 

kellys_eye

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According to your schematic, ODD numbered injectors should all connect to pin 16 and EVEN numbered to pin 17. Regardless of what your wiring currently is, just make sure that pins 16 and 17 connect to the right set of injectors. You should measure a short between injectors 1,3 and 5 (then connected to #16) and a short between injectors 2,4 and 6 (then connected to (#17). All the earths go to vehicle ground.

If you show a short between injectors 1 and 2 then either the wiring is incorrect or the ECU has shorted pins #16 and #17 internally - simple matter to check they aren't. Just disconnect #16 and #17 and measure resistance between the two. Should NOT show a short.
 

Andy123abc

Dec 28, 2022
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According to our schematic ODD numbered injectors should all 3 only connect to pin 16 and another all 3 only to pin 17 that is for ECU ground only another terminal of the injectors is positive 12v all injectors connected together with 12v battery when ignition is ON position. The ECU harness plug with 55 pins I did unplugged and checked cylinder injector number 2 ground terminal is connected to the ECU pin 16 and 17 and that wire go somethere alse which makes a short with pins 16 and 17. Should I make new connection on ground side of the 3 injectors with one new wire connect to ECU pin 16 and another new wire with 3 injectors connect to ECU pin 17 ?
 

kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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I can't follow your description - all you need do is connect the injectors according to how they SHOULD be (as per the schematic and pins 16 and 17) along with a common ground.

Cylinders 1,3 and 5 connect to pin 16
Cylinders 2,4 and 6 connect to pin 17

Each injector has two wires - one of which (of every injector) should be connected to ground (6 wires in total).

This assumes that pins 16 and 17 DON'T measure as a short circuit (test between each pin - no plugs or wires connected).
 
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