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Is a USB to GPIB dongle/convertor a difficult project ?

W

Winfield

Jan 1, 1970
0
JB said:
I think you'd be better just getting an NI USB-GPIB converter.
It's not just the hardware compatibility that's important,
depending on what software you're using, robust and well
tested drivers are critical.

Yes, if you want to use prepackage GPIB software.
They're available on eBay. One problem, there's
not much of software around for older instruments.
That may be where Prologix adapters and serial-port
communication could come in (see my other post).
 
W

Winfield

Jan 1, 1970
0
USB to GPIB and Ethernet to GPIB converters are the probably the last products
that will ever be commercially developed for GPIB.


No, although from having written test programs to talk to GPIB devices I
suspect it's quite massive and somewhat convoluted. :)

---Joel

Compared to USB or Firewire, it's simple.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Winfield said:
Yes, if you want to use prepackage GPIB software.
They're available on eBay. One problem, there's
not much of software around for older instruments.
That may be where Prologix adapters and serial-port
communication could come in (see my other post).


Do you use the Prologix? If so, does it work well to get screen prints
and stuff?

It's $150 a pop (both direct and via Sparkfun).
 
W

Winfield

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich said:
AFAIK, there is no single-chip "USB/GPIB" solution.

<http://prologix.googlepages.com/gpibusb.jpg/gpibusb-full.jpg>
is a picture of one available (and relatively inexpensive)
approach.

Sparkfun carries the newer, 4.2 version; I've use the bare-board
rev 3 (the one pictured) with success for some automated lab\
test equipment.

The Prologix adapters are unique, in that they use
standard serial-port communication from the computer
(USB-to-serial) and add a serial-to-GPIB (IEEE-488)
interface with a microprocessor. This means you
write standard serial-port programs to communicate
with your GPIB device, without using GPIB drivers.
For example, you can use raw PowerBasic or whatever.
The Prologix adapters are also inexpensive, the new
4.2 model comes in a nice box for $150.
http://prologix.googlepages.com/
 
K

krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
Seems to me that GPIB is, and should be, dying. Everything should just
be Ethernet. You can buy an entire Ethernet server gadget, like an
Xport, for half the price of a GPIB cable, and it will work 1000 miles
from your computer.

It should never have been born! What a hunk of junk.
Ever read the actual IEEE GPIB spec?

Yes. Didn't make it work any better though. What a mess.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
krw said:
It should never have been born! What a hunk of junk.


Yes. Didn't make it work any better though. What a mess.

OTOH GPIB cables look like they could be quite useful to tow a truck :)

And yes, GPIB is IMHO ill-conceived. My worst experience: Unscrewed a
connection, didn't pay attention for a split second, cable ricocheted
across the lab table and my coffee cup went sailing. Kleenex time. What
a mess!
 
N

none

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
But the hardware sure isn't.
You can actually do a simple gpib interface with just a parallel port
but then you have to deal with drivers.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
none said:
You can actually do a simple gpib interface with just a parallel port
but then you have to deal with drivers.


Is there any link where somebody did that? Drivers would otherwise be
the big roadblock. Me and the world of software are miles apart.
 
K

krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
OTOH GPIB cables look like they could be quite useful to tow a truck :)

Cost as much as the truck.
And yes, GPIB is IMHO ill-conceived.

I had one setup that the cables had to be starred off one device to
get it to work. There was a 12" GPIB stack of connectors hanging
off one device. In another phase of the moon they'd have to be
daisy-chained.
My worst experience: Unscrewed a
connection, didn't pay attention for a split second, cable ricocheted
across the lab table and my coffee cup went sailing. Kleenex time. What
a mess!

Did that this morning. Dumped half a 20oz cup of coffee all over my
desk and side. Fortunately, my laptop was the opposite direction.
Yes, a mess.
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Compared to USB or Firewire, it's simple.

I read the spec for an hour or so before I figured out that "message"
was ieee-speak for a logic level on a wire. There's one state diagram
that looks like a pot full of pasta and peas.

John
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
The Prologix adapters are unique, in that they use
standard serial-port communication from the computer
(USB-to-serial) and add a serial-to-GPIB (IEEE-488)
interface with a microprocessor. This means you
write standard serial-port programs to communicate
with your GPIB device, without using GPIB drivers.
For example, you can use raw PowerBasic or whatever.
The Prologix adapters are also inexpensive, the new
4.2 model comes in a nice box for $150.
http://prologix.googlepages.com/


We did one test system that used a DOS pc, with an ebay RS-232 to GPIB
converter talking to a vintage HP 5370 time-interval counter, all
programmed in PowerBasic. Somehow it works.

Incidentally, the Console Compiler (Windows) version of PowerBasic is
very slick. I coded about 1400 lines of inventory-control database
stuff this weekend, and it works great... compiles to a 50K EXE and
runs blinding fast. Now when you look at the inventory record for a
part, you can hit a key and launch an Explorer window that includes
datasheets, pics, notes, browser links, whatever, about that part.

John
 
D

Dave Platt

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
Do you use the Prologix? If so, does it work well to get screen prints
and stuff?

It's $150 a pop (both direct and via Sparkfun).

I bought one of the earlier (bare-board) versions through SparkFun,
and stuffed it into the case from an old Ethernet MAU interface. I've
used it with a Tektronix TDS-series 'scope and a Linux system.

It does work. I haven't tried to use the GPIB-target print-screen
feature, except to try it once and see that the scope did spit out
some data through the interface. I used it more extensively to do
waveform data capture, using a simple C program to send commands and
retrieve the data (something akin to the classic "chat" program). The
equipment lashup was a bit idiosyncratic - an old HP RF signal
generator (with AM or FM modulation turned on), into a Systron-Donner
spectrum analyzer, whose X and Y sweep outputs fed two inputs on a
TDS420A 'scope. I triggered the scope on the rising X input, did a
one-shot capture of the Y input, and (when I got one I liked) used the
Prologix to transfer the curve data to my laptop system, where it was
decimated and fed into OpenOffice.org to create a graph I could add to a
presentation.

The speed is adequate for transfers of this sort. I don't think I'd
try to use this type of GPIB interface for controlling measurements or
devices in situations where there are tight timing requirements. And,
the basic I/O metaphor used by this sort of interface is a lot
higher-level than the GPIB-bus-bit-banging API used by the NI
interface cards and driver libraries... I'm not sure it would be easy
to interface it to LabView.
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Spehro said:
My Commodore PET 2001 (despite the name it's ca. 1979) does GPIB..

Like this one: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/pet/h/p20018.jpg


I still have some Commodore dual 5 1/4" GPIB floppy drives, and a
stack of 4023 GPIB printers.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dave said:
I bought one of the earlier (bare-board) versions through SparkFun,
and stuffed it into the case from an old Ethernet MAU interface. I've
used it with a Tektronix TDS-series 'scope and a Linux system.

It does work. I haven't tried to use the GPIB-target print-screen
feature, except to try it once and see that the scope did spit out
some data through the interface. I used it more extensively to do
waveform data capture, using a simple C program to send commands and
retrieve the data (something akin to the classic "chat" program). The
equipment lashup was a bit idiosyncratic - an old HP RF signal
generator (with AM or FM modulation turned on), into a Systron-Donner
spectrum analyzer, whose X and Y sweep outputs fed two inputs on a
TDS420A 'scope. I triggered the scope on the rising X input, did a
one-shot capture of the Y input, and (when I got one I liked) used the
Prologix to transfer the curve data to my laptop system, where it was
decimated and fed into OpenOffice.org to create a graph I could add to a
presentation.

The speed is adequate for transfers of this sort. I don't think I'd
try to use this type of GPIB interface for controlling measurements or
devices in situations where there are tight timing requirements. And,
the basic I/O metaphor used by this sort of interface is a lot
higher-level than the GPIB-bus-bit-banging API used by the NI
interface cards and driver libraries... I'm not sure it would be easy
to interface it to LabView.

I think they mentioned LabView interfacing in the doc section.
Supposedly while you can use a program written for an NI card directly
there are ways to make that transfer work.

I'd really only need it to spit out the screen contents. Verbatim, not
as a CSV file or such. IOW straight to the LAN server, hop into the
office chair, send it on to the client, "Here, found the problem and
figure 2 is how it looks after the fix".
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
krw said:
Cost as much as the truck.


I had one setup that the cables had to be starred off one device to
get it to work. There was a 12" GPIB stack of connectors hanging
off one device. In another phase of the moon they'd have to be
daisy-chained.


Did that this morning. Dumped half a 20oz cup of coffee all over my
desk and side. Fortunately, my laptop was the opposite direction.
Yes, a mess.

My solution was to buy a Durabook (mil-type laptop). It's supposedly
spill-proof.
 
J

Joel Koltner

Jan 1, 1970
0
Winfield said:
Compared to USB or Firewire, it's simple.

If Jan Axelson were 25 years younger I suppose she'd have written, "GPIB
Complete" by now. :)

I used her "USB Complete" as my main reference the one time I did a USB
project where I did have to take apart and assemble USB packets in software
myself. (These days I just use, e.g., FTDI ICs, but I was purposely looking
for the "experience" on that project... and the FTDI-like approach fails if
you have high-bandwidth or isochronous needs...)
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
Incidentally, the Console Compiler (Windows) version of PowerBasic is
very slick. I coded about 1400 lines of inventory-control database
stuff this weekend, and it works great... compiles to a 50K EXE and
runs blinding fast. Now when you look at the inventory record for a
part, you can hit a key and launch an Explorer window that includes
datasheets, pics, notes, browser links, whatever, about that part.

John

WHOOOOHHHH, I want a copy!
 
That is something like the Prologix USB to GPIB
convertor/controller ?

Is this a USB/GPIB IC chip and connectors or is there more to it
?

Thanks for any ideas
ROB

http://www.ni.com/pdf/support/us/gpib_upgrade_us.pdf

Nation Instruments has a trade in program so you can buy their
obscenely overpriced gear at merely overpriced levels. It used to be a
really complex matrix, but now it appears that any NI carcass gets you
the discount. Of course, it is still $100 more than the prologix
device.

I've bought the NI 232 to gpib boxes at local flea markets, They go
for peanuts. $3 However, there is some nuance with Keithly gear.

All that said, the prologix board looks good. It has been my
experience that the FTTI chips work on everything (including X64), and
I probably wouldn't use labview.
 
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