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Katrina, British style

J

James Arthur

Jan 1, 1970
0
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Oh heavens let's hope not.

Well, it's another case where everybody knew for years that it would
storm/rain, and the proper preparations were not made, and the costs
will be extreme. Makes you want to re-read The Nine Tailors, where the
same situation was remarked on.

The necessary money was spent elsewhere.

At least there's been no hurricane to knock out power and
communications first, and the waters (that I saw) were awful, but not
20 feet deep. Let's hope everything works out for our British
friends.

The comments to the above link were interesting. Here's another
(link):
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weather/article2127599.ece


I can't read a restaurant review these days without Global Warming
being lamented.

"It is tempting to blame the appalling weather on climate change,
which is believed to increase the chances of extreme rainfall events.
But one wet summer on its own proves very little. In fact, the top ten
wettest Julys all happened two or three centuries ago."

John
 
J

James Arthur

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well, it's another case where everybody knew for years that it would
storm/rain, and the proper preparations were not made,

The readers' comments suggest it might be worse--several remark on
increased runoff due to extensive urbanization, and siting
developments on flood plains. I.e., not just inaction, but actively
man-made.
and the costs
will be extreme. Makes you want to re-read The Nine Tailors, where the
same situation was remarked on.

The necessary money was spent elsewhere.





I can't read a restaurant review these days without Global Warming
being lamented.

"It is tempting to blame the appalling weather on climate change,
which is believed to increase the chances of extreme rainfall events.
But one wet summer on its own proves very little. In fact, the top ten
wettest Julys all happened two or three centuries ago."

LA Times style, that's paragraph 14. Paragraphs 1 though 13 as much
as say that greenhouses gasses converge over the UK to make it rain on
London.

What suprised me were the skeptical comments left by readers of both
articles. In the USA those people would be shouted down and ridiculed
as 'denyers.'

Best,
James
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
James said:
Oh heavens let's hope not.

At least there's been no hurricane to knock out power and
communications first, and the waters (that I saw) were awful, but not
20 feet deep. Let's hope everything works out for our British
friends.

The comments to the above link were interesting. Here's another
(link):
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weather/article2127599.ece

"Global warming is generating heavier rainfall over Britain of the sort that has
triggered this week’s floods, scientists have confirmed for the first time."

You mean they waited for it to happen and then claimed the credit ? I'd like to
know who these 'scientists' are.

"The findings, from an international team including several British scientists,
do not prove that this week’s flooding is the direct result of global warming:
it is linked to weather patterns that have been known before."

So, flooding is normal. Yes I already knew that.

Graham
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well, it's another case where everybody knew for years that it would
storm/rain, and the proper preparations were not made, and the costs
will be extreme. Makes you want to re-read The Nine Tailors, where the
same situation was remarked on.

The necessary money was spent elsewhere.




I can't read a restaurant review these days without Global Warming
being lamented.

"It is tempting to blame the appalling weather on climate change,
which is believed to increase the chances of extreme rainfall events.
But one wet summer on its own proves very little. In fact, the top ten
wettest Julys all happened two or three centuries ago."

John

I watched that mini ice age thing...

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=74653

again on the History Channel two nights ago.

Pretty obvious that's what is going to happen again.

But Bush will be blamed... even for the warming on Mars... must be
nice to be such an omnipotent being ;-)

...Jim Thompson
 
J

John Devereux

Jan 1, 1970
0
James Arthur said:
Sorry to hear it! One tip: your food will keep a couple days if you
*don't* open your freezer. After that, open it up and start the bar-b-
que.

Actually it looks like they managed to save the regional power
distribution station, so hopefully we will keep power (500k people
were at risk of no power for 2+ weeks). But water supply has now
failed unfortunately, the regional water works is at the "epicenter"
so was flooded early on.

There are queues for water, helicopter rescues - it did remind me of
the Katrina coverage. But no loss of life AFAIK.
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Actually it looks like they managed to save the regional power
distribution station, so hopefully we will keep power (500k people
were at risk of no power for 2+ weeks). But water supply has now
failed unfortunately, the regional water works is at the "epicenter"
so was flooded early on.

There are queues for water, helicopter rescues - it did remind me of
the Katrina coverage. But no loss of life AFAIK.

We actually had such an event in North Scottsdale in the mid '70's.
Tornado roared thru, left my house standing except for fence damage,
but several people's roofs in my pool :-(

Then it rained for three days. Left us as an island. They flew water
and food, baby diapers, etc., into Cocopah Elementary School (a block
away) in helicopters.

...Jim Thompson
 
D

DaveC

Jan 1, 1970
0
We actually had such an event in North Scottsdale in the mid '70's.
Tornado roared thru, left my house standing except for fence damage,
but several people's roofs in my pool :-(

Then it rained for three days. Left us as an island. They flew water
and food, baby diapers, etc., into Cocopah Elementary School (a block
away) in helicopters.
...Jim Thompson

I remember that. I was in Tucson in college then. We got wet, but nothing
like the Phoenix area...

Probably seems odd, to non-desert rats, that in the middle of the desert you
can drown.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
DaveC said:
I remember that. I was in Tucson in college then. We got wet, but nothing
like the Phoenix area...

Probably seems odd, to non-desert rats, that in the middle of the desert you
can drown.


I remember camping in the desert way north of Phoenix. Bone dry,
blistering sun, not a whiff of a cloud anywhere. A ranger came by and
told us to get out of there, and pronto. There would be water roaring
through here in a few hours, he said.
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
I can't read a restaurant review these days without Global Warming
being lamented.

"It is tempting to blame the appalling weather on climate change,
which is believed to increase the chances of extreme rainfall events.
But one wet summer on its own proves very little. In fact, the top ten
wettest Julys all happened two or three centuries ago."

I have yet to read the links in this thread, but I have a couple
comments already:

1. The severe rainstorm was probably caused by a an unusual random
variation in weather conditions that occured mainly or entirely for
reasons other than global warming. There is some chance that due
to "butterfly effect" man-made causes caused such a bad rainstorm
to occur when it did as opposed to days or years earlier or later, though
such bad rainstorms are expected to occur every several decades even
without human interference. Weather history has a big track record of
things occaisionally going whacko.

2. Point 1 does not negate the existence of global warming and its
few negative consequences that it is actually causing already and the
greater negative causes that it will probably cause a few to several
decades from now.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have yet to read the links in this thread, but I have a couple
comments already:

1. The severe rainstorm was probably caused by a an unusual random
variation in weather conditions that occured mainly or entirely for
reasons other than global warming. There is some chance that due
to "butterfly effect" man-made causes caused such a bad rainstorm
to occur when it did as opposed to days or years earlier or later, though
such bad rainstorms are expected to occur every several decades even
without human interference. Weather history has a big track record of
things occaisionally going whacko.

2. Point 1 does not negate the existence of global warming and its
few negative consequences that it is actually causing already and the
greater negative causes that it will probably cause a few to several
decades from now.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

We are clearly heading into the warming phase that proceeds a mini (or
worse) ice age.

But it's not man-made, it's normal sun cycles.

...Jim Thompson
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have yet to read the links in this thread, but I have a couple
comments already:

1. The severe rainstorm was probably caused by a an unusual random
variation in weather conditions that occured mainly or entirely for
reasons other than global warming. There is some chance that due
to "butterfly effect" man-made causes caused such a bad rainstorm
to occur when it did as opposed to days or years earlier or later, though
such bad rainstorms are expected to occur every several decades even
without human interference. Weather history has a big track record of
things occaisionally going whacko.

2. Point 1 does not negate the existence of global warming and its
few negative consequences that it is actually causing already and the
greater negative causes that it will probably cause a few to several
decades from now.

How come GW never, never, never has projected positive consequences?
All we hear is flooding, drought, disease, famine, species
extermination... all gloom.

John
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
The readers' comments suggest it might be worse--several remark on
increased runoff due to extensive urbanization, and siting
developments on flood plains. I.e., not just inaction, but actively
man-made.

The USA has some significant problems with urban sprawl removing natural
means of slowing rainfall runoff (forests and grasslands with tall weeds)
and replacing these with pavement, mowed lawns and buildings. This means
that a bad short-term heavy rainstorm (typically a heavy thunderstorm
formation or a tropical storm, and these are mainly summer to mid-autumn
events) will flood floodplains more badly than a similar rainstorm did in
the past.
This is not a complaint of human activity affecting the weather, but a
complaint of human activity degrading ability of some areas to handle
weather conditions that have ocurred before and will occur again.
LA Times style, that's paragraph 14. Paragraphs 1 though 13 as much
as say that greenhouses gasses converge over the UK to make it rain on
London.

So what was London's rainfall in each of the past 10 years, the 10
before that, and its average over a time period at least 30 years long
ending 10-20 years ago?
Keep in mind that there is such a thing as weather patterns getting into
"ruts" of decade time scale, and I mention some examples:

1. Especially low incidence of hurricanes affecting USA east coast north
of Virginia Beach between 1900 and 1945.

2. Hurricanes picking on Florida around 1950 and in the early '50's.

3. Hurricanes picking on the USA east coast farther north from the mid
'50's to the early '60's.

4. Decrease in hurricane problems to the USA from the late 1970's to
sometime in the 1990's.

5. Northeast USA having a string of bad winters from late 1976 to early
1982, and the 1984-1985 winter was no picnic.

6. Mid-Atlantic USA had a string of bad hot summers from 1991-1995.

7. 1930's extreme heat up and down the USA Great Plains and eastward
to Pennsylvania, especially 1932-1936.
What suprised me were the skeptical comments left by readers of both
articles. In the USA those people would be shouted down and ridiculed
as 'denyers.'

Keep in mind that if the weather acts up in some ways for a few or even
several years, the cause may be a natural one and probably is.

Not that I think this disproves man-made global warming and the few ill
effects that it is actually already causing and the greater ill effects
that it will probably cause a few to several decades from now.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
I remember that. I was in Tucson in college then. We got wet, but nothing
like the Phoenix area...

Probably seems odd, to non-desert rats, that in the middle of the desert you
can drown.

Especially beware of dry riverbeds and any similar low stretches of
land. Beware of areas having any evidence of intermittent past water
flow and areas that are low enough to be candidates for flooding if the
weather goes bonkers.

Be aware of American weather - I say that "normal American weather" is
for the weather to be "normal" for sufficient amounts of time to allow one
to believe that there is such a thing as "normal weather in America", and
the weather sometimes goes screwball - did so before and will do so again.

Also beware of the "Temperate Zone". It appears to me that "temperate"
is a word that works like the word "flammable". "Flammable" and
"inflammable" mean the same thing, so I think that "temperate" weather is
the same as "intemperate" weather. It appears to me that the "Temperate
Zone" is where the weather has a temper (worse than elsewhere on this
planet).

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
I remember camping in the desert way north of Phoenix. Bone dry,
blistering sun, not a whiff of a cloud anywhere. A ranger came by and
told us to get out of there, and pronto. There would be water roaring
through here in a few hours, he said.

Probably from thunderstorms blowing up near an edge of a mountainous
or otherwise elevated area upstream from the area in question.

This is occaisionally an actual problem in some desert areas of the
southwest USA, and I suspect also in some nearby areas of Mexico.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
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