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Laser or LED GO GO dance cage- Help!

andea darling

Mar 8, 2015
4
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
4
Hi There,

Im new to this site, and honestly don't know that much about electronics, however i am a trade jeweller so I'm good at construction and iv managed to figure some stuff out in the past. Really iv just wired some LED circuits for some theatre costumes and props (see avatar). I do love take on stupid projects that are way out of my depth, and so I'm wondering if anyone can help me with the latest one...???

Im tryin to build a laser go go dancing cage for a big theatre production. Iv done basic wiring of LED's but never worked with lasers before. After lot of scanning the net it seems it might be easiest to just buy a bulk load of laser pointers rather than the diodes (which i would have to encase and focus?) off aliexpress (or somewhere else?) and try to wire them into a circuit so i can turn them all on at the same time. I want the effect of the bars of light as seen in the pics below. I have been asking around with electricians and they don't seem to either want or know how to help me....

I would LOVE any help or direction anyone can give me!!! if anyone can help answer any of the following questions id GREATLY appreciate it!

1. from what iv read it seems 5mW might be best for this purpose as more powerful lasers may burn the skin (i definitely don't want to be responsible for burning the building down!) Does anyone have any thoughts on what mW i should be using for this?
2. Ideally i would like the laser cage to be able to be seen without the use of a fog machine (i will use this for effect in certain parts of the show- but would like it to still be visible when its not there) Is this possible, or would i need a stronger laser that would be too dangerous?
3. i don't really know anything about calculating the voltage or what power battery i would need once i had say 50 lasers together in a circuit. Does anyone have any links for working this out? I'm not sure if it is specific or different for lasers?
4. I read that i would need a driver, is that true? any links for that would be great!
5. are there insanely high powered LED's that could have a strong focussed beam that would be better/easier to use and i should forget about lasers all together?
6. do you have a totally different idea of how i should go about this that would be a lot easier??

Thanks!!!
Andea Darling
 

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Tron788

Mar 20, 2014
14
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Mar 20, 2014
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14
Hi buddy, from what I can determine to what your trying to achieve a solid laser beam (as per your photos) is not possible and would require some smoke or alike to see\establish a full\solid laser beam\bar\tube. As to what your trying to achieve. These lasers your referring to only produce a laser spot (with in range) on the subject (like a presentation pointer) No solid laser beam\bar\tube,,, this part is naked to the eye unless smoke or alike is used to give the beam a solid dimension...

;) In return; I have a idea to what your trying to achieve. You can use fiber cable\rope with a serious High power L.E.D (light emitting diode) lighting source (to produce ex-stream light with low heat) to shot the bright light up inside along the fiber. Giving you the effect you desire.:cool:

These hope this helps
 

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andea darling

Mar 8, 2015
4
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
4
Thank you so much for your help Tron!
However the problem with the fibre is there can't be anything in the physical space- as in no cage bars, as we need to be able to pass through that area of the stage without there being a 'physical' cage. Hence the idea of the cage made simply from lights- when the lights are off there is nothing (other than the circuit on the floor) on the stage. Does that make sense?

Ah i thought that might be the case with the lasers not being a visible beam without fog. However I think its ok if the lasers only work when there is fog, we can work with that effect and have dry ice and fog machines. Obviously it would have been awesome if it was possible to have it still all lit up without the fog too- but i can work with fog!

So to that end, would you know where to direct me by any chance...??
Thank you so much for taking the time to help a crazy lady out!!
Andea
 

Tron788

Mar 20, 2014
14
Joined
Mar 20, 2014
Messages
14
Alrighty, 1st) Thing you need to is determine is the lasers beams Length X Width X Cost...? 2nd) How many laser beans\tubes needed to achieve the cage 3rd) Duration of the laser time (run times) and colour.....? The lasers on ebay may no be ser-vice (note) that I haven't check out the complete range of laser diodes available or laser-diode-starts to deliver what you need. I will add some time over the week to research your needs...K
 

DaveyD

Mar 5, 2015
5
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Mar 5, 2015
Messages
5
Hey, personally I would use the classic glycerol smoke machine, dry ice is heavy. Check this out: $5 fog machine, if you want it real cheap, you can use a heated element like how the electronic cigarettes work.
http://lifehacker.com/5854472/make-a-fog-machine-for-your-party-for-5

As for the LASERs 5mW is still quite powerful for travelling over such a short distance, but these are my preferred power rating when using them as pointers (tron is right to consider your laser width, if you want it thicker you can make the laser out of focus, but it will be tapered, this will be the expensive part, perhaps using multiple LASER to give the illusion of a thicker beam ). Unfortunately due to the cheaper nature of such LASERs the focus is quite poor, but i would think effective for your needs. Most importantly the wave lengths of the cheap devices can vary emitting a UV spectrum that cannot be seen and can be damaging to the eyes. No laser should be looked at directly of course. You could alway test a 2mW vs a 5mV for your needs. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-a-pocket-laser-damage/

Somthing like these should be fine http://www.seeedstudio.com/document/HLM1230.pdf notice the features and input voltage and focus. They can get hot which will reduce the life of the laser if contained without ventilation or heat sink

As for powering these devices, if you use a 12V source (car battery,(while not being charged)) you could connect 3 LASERs in series and the rest in parallel. A battery of this size would be ample (example: 25mA(per LASER) * 40*3 (thats 120 LASERS) = 1A. With a 50Ah battery you could run this for a maximum of 50 hours, but the battery voltage will start to diminish before you hit the 50h mark). Although 4 volts for each laser will be fine for this type. To calculate laser power you need the data sheet or required specs. Remember a 5mW LASER is the optical power, not electrical. The 5mW one I chose requires approx 100mW of electrical power each. P=IV = 25mW*4V = 100mW. If you used 60 lasers, 3 in series 20 in parallel, you could either double your run time or half the capacity of the battery.

The current vs voltage curve of these are exponential, so if voltage gets a little too high the LASER will draw more current heat up quicker and burnout.

Well as for the real basics that about covers it. If you would like it to be a little more professional then use LASER drivers and micro control unit.

Remember to keep all your bare wires covered using heat shrink tubing.

have fun.

http://mods-n-hacks.wonderhowto.com/how-to/connect-different-laser-diodes-power-supply-414442/

hope this helps...

Dave
 
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andea darling

Mar 8, 2015
4
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
4
AAAAHHHHHHH AMAZING!! thank you so much!

That was so incredibly helpful! I managed to get in touch with an old mate who is an electrician too. He has no idea about lasers but was able to have a look at what you sent me and was then able clarify a few things for me too, eg he sent me a quick drawing of the circuit you were explaining (takes me back to high school ha ha!).

The lasers you sent the link for look great! The one i bought to play with was just a tiny diode and a tiny lens- loose in the packet- hence thinking premade laser pointers might be the way to go. Do you know where i can purchase those? i tried at jcar (aussie version of radioshack i think) and no luck. Plus as i need bulk, im sure its cheaper online!

I will mount them raised a few mm off the base so there is ventilation, and i only need it stay on 5 mins-10 max. Also we already have a smoke machine but thanks for the link- i might just do that with my nephews this Halloween for fun! As for the UV, it wont be on for long and ill just have everyone wear some blinged up costume sunglasses ;)

Also what did you mean by this part, are you able to give me more info? :
"Well as for the real basics that about covers it. If you would like it to be a little more professional then use LASER drivers and micro control unit."
I mentioned to my mate that i might need a driver and he said that wouldnt be hard if we needed to make one (?) do you think we need/should be doing it this way? What would a micro control unit do and be useful for?

Sorry about the totally novice questions-

Thank you so much for your help! This has been so great!
Andea
 

andea darling

Mar 8, 2015
4
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
4
On a completely different note- this is part of the costume i made a while back, its a bit old and i want to remake it bigger brighter and better... Do you have any thoughts on that? i just used strip LED and cut it into sections. I have since found out where to get battery cases (ignore my dodgy tape job) as well as the need to silicon over my solders and shrink tube my joins (so ignore that too). I wanted to be able to isolate which parts turned on when i wanted them to so its a few different circuits. I guess im just wondering if you know of any other light products (aside from EL WIRE) that might be good for this kind of use? I figure you guys are the experts so may as well throw it out there into the ether!

Thanks!!
Warning: Its a burlesque costume... pics attached in file.
 

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Tron788

Mar 20, 2014
14
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Mar 20, 2014
Messages
14
Hey Andea Darling & DaveyD, okay looks like Daveyd has come up with laser some laser info for ya, cheers bloke. But,,,,,,In orderer to widen the beam in diameter you'll need shot shoot the beam through a lens dispersing the lasers bandwidth. In this case you'll need a much stronger laser with a driver\started to intensify the the beam X width X distance X volume to gain amplification of the beam.

Ps; Looks like fun and funky photos :eek:
 
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