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LED car lights flicker - no need!

P

Partac

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Steve Firth" wrote in message

Dave Plowman said:
No idea. They are crap and I wouldn't have one in the house.

The LED bulbs I have used have been anything but "crap". They use 1/10th
the electricity of equivalent halogen bulbs and can be bought as flood or
spotlight versions.

--
<•DarWin><|
_/ _/

Yes, agreed. They are also available at the moment in cool white or warm
white, which can be used to suit the mood you wish to create.
We have been using them for about 6 months now, and are extremely happy with
the results.
 
M

Major Scott

Jan 1, 1970
0
Not many people know that if you are obviously going to be stationary
for more than a few seconds, you should apply the handbrake.
Unfortunately, that won't stop them using the pedal as a foot rest.

Why bother? It means it takes you longer and more effort to get going again.

Leaving your foot on the brake doesn't expend any energy, you use the weight of your leg.

Handbrakes are for people with poor clutch control.
 
M

Major Scott

Jan 1, 1970
0
When you get stuck behind a new Audi (can't remember whether it was A1 or
A3) in a slow moving queue you might change your mind.

I'm sure I must have been behind one at some point. I think you're like a friend of mine who hates being behind anyone with brakelights on in a queue. How anyone can think 21 watts is bright I don't know. It's nowhere near as dazzling or distracting than headlights of oncoming cars.
 
M

Major Scott

Jan 1, 1970
0
The problem is, these companies need people with a clue.

Actually both jobs I've been in congratulated me for getting things done instead of arseing around with paperwork like others do.
 
M

Major Scott

Jan 1, 1970
0
Pulsing an LED is a way of getting a higher light output from it without
overheating. Overheating an LED kills it in short order. Seeing a flicker
from them on a video is the same effect as wagon wheels appearing to turn
backwards on old cowboy and indian films - stroboscopic effect.

The front LED running lights don't even flicker on camera. And I don't think brakes do either. So why make the tails any different? They're made up of many LEDs, so just power up less of them (which I've seen buses doing) for tail and all of them for brake.
 
D

Dave Plowman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Last time I saw LED bulbs in the supermarket, they were about 3x the
price and about 1/3 the lumen/W.
Too dim to use for anything - and too expensive to buy for technical
interest.
A local supermarket had such a deal once on CFLs - I bought a few just
for the diac inside!

My main complaint with LEDs is the spectrum is non continuous. And as that
improves, the efficiency drops. Their life is also rather variable.

Of course I do realise many won't care if colour rendering is poor under
LED lighting.
 
S

Steve Firth

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ian Field said:
Last time I saw LED bulbs in the supermarket, they were about 3x the price
and about 1/3 the lumen/W.

One third of the lumens per W compared to what?

Tungsten halogen lamps max out at 24 lm/W;
CFLs are quoted as 46-75 lm/W[1];
LEDs range from 29 - 100 lm/W for the bulbs sold in supermarkets.

Note that the LEDs are available in the same packages as the halogen
bulbs and are a direct replacement for them. There are no equivalent
CFLs in the same packages, so changing to CFL often requires a brand new
light fitting.

Also unlike CFLs LEDs provide good light from the moment they are turned
on, CFLs take forever to warm up and even then provide a sickly dim
glow. I replaced four 25W E14 R50 bulbs in downlighters with 4x14W CFLs
(280 lm; 20 lm/W according to the info sheet). The light output was
appaling and resulted in needing to use two standard lamps and a table
lamp in that room as well as the CFLs just to see what one was doing.
These were changed for 4x3.5W LED units (315 lm; 90 lm/W) and the
improvement in illumination was drastic. Although supposedly the same
output as the CFLs, these provide more light than the tungsten E14s,
much more than the CFLs and unlike the CFLs the bulbs are an exact fit
for the downlighter. The CFLs protruded from the fitting by about five
CM and were ugly as sin.

Also the CFLs weren't cheap, costing £5 each, the LEDs were £6 each but
worth the extra for the light output and efficiency.

So what are you comparing LEDs to?

BTW, unlike Dave P, I don't spend time in my living/dining room
comparing Pantone colour charts with print samples produced on a range
of professional lithograph machines, so small variations in spectrum are
irrelevant. The CFLs were also pants in that regard, since everything
was coloured a sickly greenish tinge. The LEDs are "warm" white which
gives a good even illumination that looks to me like daylight around
noon.

[1] But never seem to achieve it.
 
S

Steve Firth

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dave Plowman said:
Of course I do realise many won't care if colour rendering is poor under
LED lighting.

Yes it must be terrible for you having to run multiple Heidelberg
presses in your living room. No doubt you only use Apple computers so
that you can get exact pre-press matching that is impossible on your BBC
computer, spectrum being so terribly important to you.
 
D

Dave Plowman

Jan 1, 1970
0
BTW, unlike Dave P, I don't spend time in my living/dining room
comparing Pantone colour charts with print samples produced on a range
of professional lithograph machines, so small variations in spectrum are
irrelevant. The CFLs were also pants in that regard, since everything
was coloured a sickly greenish tinge. The LEDs are "warm" white which
gives a good even illumination that looks to me like daylight around
noon.

Not warm white then. Warm white is more akin to evening light.

I'm glad your happy with poor light quality to save a few pennies.
 
D

Dave Plowman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yes it must be terrible for you having to run multiple Heidelberg
presses in your living room. No doubt you only use Apple computers so
that you can get exact pre-press matching that is impossible on your BBC
computer, spectrum being so terribly important to you.

Strange how you are picky about so many things, but are more keen to save
pennies on electricity than have decent quality light.
 
S

Steve Firth

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dave Plowman said:
Not warm white then. Warm white is more akin to evening light.

What LED manufacturers call "warm white" 3200K, is what CFL
manufacturers would term "blazing actinic light", if their claims about
daylight white (guttering candle colour) are anything to go by.
I'm glad your happy with poor light quality to save a few pennies.

I'm glad that you don't know what you are talking about.
 
S

Steve Firth

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dave Plowman said:
Strange how you are picky about so many things, but are more keen to save
pennies on electricity than have decent quality light.

It's because I care about decent quality light that I am using LEDs.
CFLs are dreadful, the worst light output and an intolerable spectrum
that makes the human face look dead. If you want to live in the opening
scenes of "Joe Versus the Volcano" or inside the Matrix, install CFLs
and be my guest.

If you were facing the most expensive charge per kWH in Europe you would
also think carefully about the use of lighting.
 
S

Steve Firth

Jan 1, 1970
0
Clive George said:
Got a brand/supplier for the LEDs?

The brand is Peritus. The supplier was the usual "some guy on eBay"
which I suspect is a front for Peritus, charging less than their prices
on Amazon.

I had a bit of trouble finding them again since they didn't leave
feedback after I bought the bulbs. They have an eBay shop:

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Ivys-shop

They charged about £6.50/bulb if bought individually and £60(ish) for
ten or more with free postage. I bought a mix of MR16 and E14 R50 from
them a year ago, so far I'm pleased with the bulbs.

The ones I chose were the 21xSMD units which put the SMD elements
directly behind the front glass of the bulb. This gives even
illumination over a wide area. They also have units with a number of 1W
packages in each bulb which I avoided because it seemed to me that these
would produce spot lighting.

These seem to have fallen in price and are now about £5.30 per bulb
bought in bulk.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10x-E14-SES-R50-21-SMD-BULB-WARM-WHITE-UK-SELLER-/160590003951

And the MR16 has fallen to about £1.90/bulb which seems good VFM to me
compared to the price that Ikea charge for CFLs that don't illuminate
worth a damn.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10x-MR16-21-LEDs-BULB-WARM-WHITE-UK-SELLER-/150606814415

I haven't changed the transformers used for the halogen lighting tracks
(yet). If I use all LED bulbs there's unacceptable flickering - the
bulbs don't draw enough current for the transformers to provide stable
output. A mix of three LED to 2 halogen bulbs keeps things stable. It's
noticeable that the 35W halogens have lower light output than the 3.5W
LEDs.
 
S

Steve Firth

Jan 1, 1970
0
Nick Finnigan said:
CFLs are quoted as 46-75 lm/W[1];
glow. I replaced four 25W E14 R50 bulbs in downlighters with 4x14W CFLs
(280 lm; 20 lm/W according to the info sheet). The light output was
appaLling and resulted in needing to use two standard lamps and a table
lamp in that room as well as the CFLs just to see what one was doing.

Well, yes, 1000 lumens isn't enough. But why were they so low?

Primarily because CFLs are shite, one assumes.

Are you aware of any E14/R50 CFLs with better light output? These were
the best that I could find and they didn't have the same dimensions as a
standard R50 bulb. The Ikea CFLs do have the same dimensions and have
even lower light oputput.

I'm not that bothered, the LEDs provide more light and use less power,
and actually fit the downlighter. At that point I stop worrying about
CFLs which are now dodo technology.
 
D

Dave Plowman

Jan 1, 1970
0
It's because I care about decent quality light that I am using LEDs.
CFLs are dreadful, the worst light output and an intolerable spectrum
that makes the human face look dead.

Then don't use CFLs.
If you want to live in the opening
scenes of "Joe Versus the Volcano" or inside the Matrix, install CFLs
and be my guest.
If you were facing the most expensive charge per kWH in Europe you would
also think carefully about the use of lighting.

Not if it doesn't do what I want.
 
D

Dave Plowman

Jan 1, 1970
0
What LED manufacturers call "warm white" 3200K, is what CFL
manufacturers would term "blazing actinic light", if their claims about
daylight white (guttering candle colour) are anything to go by.

All you are confirming is that direct incandescent replacements are all
rubbish.
I'm glad that you don't know what you are talking about.

You're actually excelling yourself here. Proving just how tight you are.
 
S

Steve Firth

Jan 1, 1970
0
Nick Finnigan said:
Nick Finnigan said:
On 28/04/2013 13:48, Steve Firth wrote:

CFLs are quoted as 46-75 lm/W[1];

glow. I replaced four 25W E14 R50 bulbs in downlighters with 4x14W CFLs
(280 lm; 20 lm/W according to the info sheet). The light output was
appaLling and resulted in needing to use two standard lamps and a table
lamp in that room as well as the CFLs just to see what one was doing.

Well, yes, 1000 lumens isn't enough. But why were they so low?

Primarily because CFLs are shite, one assumes.

Are you aware of any E14/R50 CFLs with better light output?

E14 R50 14W CFL bring up an ebay seller with 900 lumens, which is within
the normal range you quoted, rather than being worse than tungsten.

Giving a URL would help. I can't find any such thing on eBay. Unless you
mean the Bridgelux bulbs which aren't R50 and are LED not CFL. Searching
for E14 R50 14W CFL produced zero results.

Omitting 14W produces some results but these are 5W (100 lumens) and 9W
- lumens not stated.
 
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