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Light/outlet remote status indication

dcack

Sep 25, 2021
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I want something to remotely show the status of a light or outlet, i.e. whether the power is on or off. Why? I frequently leave the light on in my workshop or porch, and I would like to have an indication inside the house that the light is on or off. I envision a small radio transmitter plugged into a 120V outlet that would send an on/off signal to a remote receiver/indicator, presumably also powered by 120V, but other power sources could be acceptable. I would like it to transmit a signal 50 feet or so through a couple of stud walls. One that could transmit 200 feet through a couple of concrete walls would open up a number of further possibilities in my detached garage.
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I have tried searching this forum and the internet without success. It may be that I don't even know what search terms to use. I would be willing to construct something from parts, although I would think such a simple device would be an available product; if not, maybe it should be. It would seem to have a lot of potential uses beyond my simple desire. I do not want to spend a lot of $$$ on this, although I might be willing to spend a bit more than it is worth just to see if I can make something practical. I am not interested in developing a commercial product. So, if anyone can point me in the proper search direction or give hints on how to make something like this, I would appreciate it.
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All my workshop and garage lights plug into outlets mounted in the ceiling, so I could literally plug a transmitter into that. I could also tap into other light circuits pretty easily. I do not need remote control, only indication. I do not wish to put in long runs of wire or install expensive controllers just to get a lazy man's indicator. Suggestions like "just go look at it" are probably justified, but oddly ineffective.
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I am new to this forum, so please forgive any cultural sins. I will try to learn.
 

dave9

Mar 5, 2017
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I'd just get some smart outlets and a Google Home mini then tell it "hey goople, turn the workshop lights off", or tell it to turn them off at X PM time every night.
 

Tha fios agaibh

Aug 11, 2014
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..... Or install some high quality dual technology ceiling mount occupancy sensors.
 

Bluejets

Oct 5, 2014
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The way it's written you would need a current detector/transmitter on each and every light and power outlet.
Rather expensive I would have thought.

It depends on just how your installation is set up and wired but in most, the garage/shed is remote from the house and fed via a sub-main from either the main switchboard or jumpered from a power outlet somewhere in the house.

Monitor the current in that line and go from there.
Although if you have anything in there which needs to stay on it would be a waste of time and effort.

Warning though, it would require invasive connection/disconnection to some degree and requre a licenced electrician.
Care would also need to be taken to ensure your "diy home made non-certified device" does not contravene any insurance policies.

Better I would have thought to just stick you head out and take a look.
What many do is install an isolater on the sub-mains near the entry door and switch off when you leave.
 

dcack

Sep 25, 2021
2
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"The way it's written you would need a current detector/transmitter on each and every light and power outlet.
Rather expensive I would have thought." You are right, except that I would only need one pair on every switched circuit, not every light and outlet. For the moment, I have three circuits in mind. If a long-range pair were available, maybe two more circuits in my detached garage. This sounds to me like something that might be made pretty cheaply. Remote plug-in power switches are cheap; I use one now to switch exterior lighting on the detached garage from my house 100 feet away. I would think a remote indicator that does not handle any significant power on either end would be cheaper. Although the switch does transmit only momentarily while the indicator would be semi-continuous, maybe a bigger issue than amperage.
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The occupancy sensor suggestion comes close to this, especially in the parking area that is only slightly bigger than my truck. I have two such sensors on entry lights inside my detached garage, but at 40'x24' I can be working in areas that the sensors do not cover. It can be inconvenient to have the lights go out while I am working. So I only have that on smaller lights near the doors (in particular one door that cannot have a switch next to the jamb; this one is a godsend). I am pretty sure that an occupancy sensor would be an issue in my workshop where I sometimes do things far from the switch that don't involve much movement. And I have not looked into occupancy sensor switches for lighting circuits with multiple switch locations.
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The possibility of doing this with high-tech, or even low-tech as above, remote controls I am aware of. But if I don't know that the lights are on, I probably won't think to ask Alexa or her ilk or to punch a remote to turn them off. The switches are only 20 feet from my bedroom, so turning them off is not a matter of will, it is a matter of awareness. Now if Alexa would observe that the lights are on and that I have not been in the room for a while and then ask if I want the lights turned off, that could be appealing (and maybe a bit creepy).
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Thanks for the input. Not exactly what I hoped for so far, but good food for thought and reasonable suggestions.
 

Martaine2005

May 12, 2015
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Have a look at the X10 home automation system.
There are better up to date, modern systems but I love the X10 protocol. It’s simple, straightforward technology that doesn’t need a degree in AI.

Martin
 

Tha fios agaibh

Aug 11, 2014
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"I am pretty sure that an occupancy sensor would be an issue in my workshop where I sometimes do things far from the switch that don't involve much movement. And I have not looked into occupancy sensor switches for lighting circuits with multiple switch locations."
Dual technology occupancy sensors use ultrasonic and passive infrared detection. They are miles apart from the earlier/cheap pir models that are unreliable except for small areas.

DT sensors can be used in places where you are far away from it or locations with high bay ceilings.
They work well in restrooms where they can even detect someone behind the closed door of a toilet stall.

You may have to have several sensors in a room but the better quality models are very reliable when installed correctly.
 

hevans1944

Hop - AC8NS
Jun 21, 2012
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This does appear to be an application that could be implemented with some sort of radio-frequency link between outlets/lights in your garage and a remote receiver, with the added caveats that (1) it must be inexpensive and (2) it must have a range of at least "50 feet or so through a couple of stud walls" or perhaps "200 feet through a couple of concrete walls." Please advise if I have inadvertently omitted an important specification, or if I have added a "requirement" not specified in the original post. I don't want to over-engineer this.:rolleyes:

The main problem with RF (radio frequency) links of ANY kind is finding an appropriate frequency spectrum and the amount of RF power required for a reliable link. After that is out of the way, it's just a matter of choosing the appropriate modulation and a receiver to detect and demodulate the signal.

In the United States of America (USA) both modulation type, frequency spectrum, and allowed power are heavily regulated by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). Severe penalties, including jail time and/or heavy fines, may be levied against convicted violators. A station license is required for many applications, such as entertainment broadcasting via radio or television, but there are many other (non-broadcast) applications that would also either require a license or have severe limitations on RF power output and frequency spectrum for legal unlicensed operation. There are plenty of legal, unlicensed, transmitters available, but it can be difficult to determine legality. In the USA, receivers of any kind are unlicensed.That said, it is wise that you are "not interested in developing a commercial product" as considerable research, development, and non-recurring engineering costs would be involved.

So, I will begin by offering for your inspection this link to a long-range solution. It features a key-fob transmitter and matching long-range receiver. Both devices have type-approved FCC certification. It is a bit pricey for a "garage door" type of application, but it appears to be very reliable and well-designed. Other similar units from this manufacturer involve a pair of identical transmitter/receiver devices that perform back and forth communications with each other. Each device monitors the other for proper operation and both have alert relays to warn of link failures. For when you absolutely, positively, cannot tolerate an alarm-fault condition.

However, even if you could use a COTS (Commercial, Off-The-Shelf) solution, such as an unlicensed wireless garage door control and its mating receiver, you probably do not want to be transmitting RF all the time the outlets/lights are on, stopping transmission only when they are off. While certainly a feasible solution that is easy to implement, such a "beacon" solution is inefficient and wastes valuable RF spectrum space. One alternative is to transmit periodically for very brief periods of time, say once a minute for one second (or less), when the outlets/lights are on, and to not transmit anything if the outlets/lights are off. This means the remote receiver is only ever "activated" once a minute, so there would be (at most) a one minute delay in reporting the "on" status of the outlets/lights.in the garage. The receiver could have a circuit that latches the on or off status and displays this as an LED (Light Emitting Diode) indication, updated once each minute. Unfortunately, it does not provide a fail-safe mechanism to verify the outlets/lights are actually in an "off" status. That requires a two-way communications link, such as a version of the "high-priced spread" linked to above,

That's the "simple" solution. If you are an electronics hobbyist and want to add "bells and whistles" to your project, you have certainly come to the right place. On the other hand, if you just want to glance at an indicator in your house to "see" if you left the garage lights on, there may be a simpler solution: just add a line-powered relay, activated by the outlet/light circuits in the garage (you will need something like this for ANY solution), and fifty to two hundred feet of low-voltage insulated "doorbell" twisted-pair wire, buried directly in the ground between house and garage. Connect the wire-ends in the garage to a pair of normally-open contacts on the relay. Connect the wire-ends in the house to the low-voltage output of a small doorbell transformer, wired in series with a diode, a current-limiting resistor, and an LED. Or just use a small incandescent lamp of appropriate low voltage and low wattage. I prefer the LED approach because LEDs seldom (if ever) burn out. You may not like this wired instead of wireless solution, perhaps because it is impractical or inconvenient for you to bury wire between the house and detached garage, but I offer it for consideration.

An inexpensive wireless solution MAY possibly be achieved with a remote relay receiver in conjunction with a key fob transmitter. This pair of devices is readily available online from a myriad of Asian sources. Caveat emptor on that, but they are cheap enough to try without hemorrhaging money. Most of these FCC Part 15 (unlicensed) devices have a very short range because of FCC-required limitations on key-fob transmitter power and inadequate receiver sensitivity. A dual-conversion superheterodyne receiver can be used for increased sensitivity and frequency selectivity, and this has become popular because such receivers are now available as an inexpensive, single, integrated circuit.

Please let us know if you solved your remote-sensing problem, and what your solution turned out to be.
 

hevans1944

Hop - AC8NS
Jun 21, 2012
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Now if Alexa would observe that the lights are on and that I have not been in the room for a while and then ask if I want the lights turned off, that could be appealing (and maybe a bit creepy).
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I am beginning to hate these so-called AI apps, such as Alexa, Siri, and the like that purport to behave like real human beings. Wife, OTOH, loves 'em. I won't be surprised if she begins to argue with 'em!

So, what you need is a sensor in your room that detects your presence, plus a timer that resets when the room in not occupied, and starts a time-delayed response if the room is occupied and the outlets/lights in the garage are on. After the time delay occurs, a chime (or a creepy digitally synthesized voice) reminds you the garage outlets/lights are still on (see previous posts on this thread for possible solutions to "lights on" notifications).

Anyway, this combination of events will reset the delay timer, just in case you ignore the prompt. For a really impressive solution, use an RFID reader and sew RFID tags into all your clothing so the electronics knows it is you who is there. Or maybe you can carry your cell phone with you at all times, and let it alert you, although that would require additional electronics and possibly some programming. Fun weekend (or two or three) project. The new cell phone app you develop would avoid the age-old question of "did I leave the lights on?" that you ask yourself after leaving the house and driving, say, a hundred or so miles... your kilometers may differ.

A successful cell-phone app could possibly be used to alert the driver that (1) the stove was left on, (2) the air-conditioner was left on or off, (3) that there has been a power failure and all your food in the refrigerator and/or freezer will spoil, (4) someone has burgled your house while you are away, (5) all sorts of other remote events, too numerous to mention here, that encourage you to cut your trip short and return home to correct/fix/ameliorate or investigate.
 
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hevans1944

Hop - AC8NS
Jun 21, 2012
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I do not wish to put in long runs of wire or install expensive controllers just to get a lazy man's indicator.
Howsabout long runs of fiber-optic cable? Easy to bury; point one (polished) end into the workshop, where it can "see" the lights, and place the house-end of the fiber wherever convenient. Add bells and whistles if you like, such as a photocell (cadmium sulfide photo-resistive cell recommended) and maybe a small Microchip PIC microprocessor operating from a CR-2032 coin-cell battery. The μP "sleeps" most of the time to conserve power, waking up when the CdS cell is illuminated so it can do its thing (turn on an LED, sound a klaxon, or whatever) before going back to sleep again. This does have the potential for commercial sales, and fiber-optic cable is very inexpensive and easy to cleave with a razor blade so polishing may not be necessary.
 
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