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Mains quick testers.

Martaine2005

May 12, 2015
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Hi guys/gals,
I recently started a new job testing hire tools. 110V and 240v.
In my past, I used Martindale socket testers etc.
But they obviously throw a fault condition on generators and yellow brick step down/ up transformers. I have all the appropriate test equipment but wondered if a ‘socket and see’ was more appropriate as I’ve never tried one.
Or do you have a DIY or buy solution for fast plug in, check etc?.
Thanks. Martin
 

Delta Prime

Jul 29, 2020
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But they obviously throw a fault condition on generators and yellow brick step down/ up transformers
So you would like to trip the fault condition?
Go no go test?
Functionality of the step down step up transformers?
 

Martaine2005

May 12, 2015
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I probably didn’t explain myself.
I don’t need to create a fault condition, just test and inspect ready for hire.
I use Martindale, Robin and Fluke mains testers along with multimeters. But building site (110V) transformers and petrol generators throw a fault. Obviously, one being isolated.
I’ve seen ‘socket and see’ mains testers and wondered if anyone has used one.

Martin
 

Tha fios agaibh

Aug 11, 2014
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Hi Martin, I hesitate to respond because s), why are you testing the Socket ..(outlet) Instead of the tool itself?

Are you tripping the Rcbo ..(Gfi) from current leakage to earth (ground)?

I don't like Socket and see...(outlet testers) type testers because they will not tell you if the earth (ground) wire is correctly hook up.

If your testing a lot of power tools and need to ignore the fault current for testing purposes, I would use a separate isolation transformer in your testing station. This will make your Rcbo on the Mains.. (line) not see leakage current downstream.

BTW, Why are you using 110v on your side of the pond?

Regards,
John
 

Tha fios agaibh

Aug 11, 2014
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Hi Martin, I hesitate to respond because s), why are you testing the Socket ..(outlet) Instead of the tool itself?

Are you tripping the Rcbo ..(Gfi) from current leakage to earth (ground)?

I don't like Socket and see...(outlet testers) type testers because they will not tell you if the earth (ground) wire is correctly hook up.

If your testing a lot of power tools and need to ignore the fault current for testing purposes, I would use a separate isolation transformer in your testing station. This will make your Rcbo on the Mains.. (line) not see leakage current downstream.

BTW, Why are you using 110v on your side of the pond?

Regards,
John
Couldn't find edit button;

Hi Martin, I hesitate to respond because of language differences. Lol
Why are you testing the Socket ..(outlet) Instead of the tool itself?

Are you tripping the Rcbo ..(Gfi) from current leakage to earth (ground)?

I don't like Socket and see...(outlet testers) type testers because they will not tell you if the earth (ground) wire is correctly hook up.

If your testing a lot of power tools and need to ignore the fault current for testing purposes, I would use a separate isolation transformer in your testing station. This will make your Rcbo on the Mains.. (line) not see leakage current downstream.

BTW, Why are you using 110v on your side of the pond?

Regards,
John
 

Martaine2005

May 12, 2015
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Hahaha Hi John, language difference made me laugh!.
First of all, our building sites by law, use 110V tools and step down transformers.
So I test the transformers, open them for a visual and check the cables. Same with the tools. The transformers and generators obviously have (outlets:)). I was wondering if there is something on the market to simply plug into the (outlet). I saw the ‘socket and see’ testers in 110V and 240V versions. I wondered if anybody had used them before I buy them.
I have a Fluke ST240+ which tests the circuit breakers. Martindale (outlet) tester etc but they are for our UK (outlets).
The generators and transformers have different (outlets) which ‘socket and see’ have. Example below.
My Fluke and Martindale have a UK plug moulded in. Example below..
I could of course make adaptors and extensions but if off the shelf is available!.

Martin
 

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kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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Don't the 110V isolation transformers have a 55-0-55V secondary with the 0V tap to ground? Under any fault condition the maximum voltage (shock) would be 55V which, according to UK regs is classified as 'low voltage' therefore safe.

Generators may/may not have an isolated neutral, depends on how you connect them.

Either way there should never be any 'sort cuts' to testing the safety aspect and I'd personally use the BEST method which isn't necessarily the quickest or cheapest.
 

Bluejets

Oct 5, 2014
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I recently started a new job testing hire tools. 110V and 240v.
Not quite certain just what it is you are actually testing, the mains supply or the appliances/tools connected into the mains supply.
However, in Aus, if you have the appropriate self test certificate, which some builders/carpenters etc. do, then they test and tag their own tools and leads, keeping their own records using similar as below.

The remainer of the installation regarding mains supply and any protective devices, must be tested by licenced electrical contractors.

Cheers Jorgo

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/265451517648
 

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Tha fios agaibh

Aug 11, 2014
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Took me a minute to get "hire tools" means Rental tools in our vernacular. Lol

We use 120v GFCI testers similar to your RCD testers. They work fine to give a quick visualization of it being properly wired. The only difference is they are slightly more sensitive and trip with an imbalance of 3 to 6ma.

If your using 120v tools, I presume the plug on the tool is the same as North America and you could just use one of our testers?

Like I said, I don't rely on them entirely to check sockets because they can't tell the difference between earth (bond) and neutral (grounded conductor).
For example someone can jumper the earth wire to any ground point instead of running it properly all the way back to its origin. Other than proper earth (grounding) indicator they work great.

The best way to check cable insulation is with a Megger meter with the circuit isolated.

Of course, Pushing the test button on a GFCI tester (RCD) is for testing the interruption device itself, not the conductors or the tool or appliance.

Photo from Amazon.com
 

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Martaine2005

May 12, 2015
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Yes, the 110V transformers secondaries are approx 55-0-55 centre tapped. The secondary centre tap is direct to earth (ground). All the transformers and tools are PAT tested after I repair/service them.
I obviously realise that there is no short cut and wouldn’t want one to test a mains operated device that the public can hire (rent, for John). But I am looking into making something that does three things at once!. So, not a short cut, just more efficient. For example: an AC volt meter across 55-55=110 another across 0-55 and same for the other 0-55. So simple to make. But I don’t know if something already exists that my company can buy for me.
My Fluke tests the inline GCFIs for wet tile cutters etc.
And no John, our 110V plugs are different. All our pins are round.
As for the ‘vernacular’, socket=outlet, rubbish=trash, workshop =shop, bonnet=hood, boot=trunk and when driving left =right :):):)

Martin
 

Tha fios agaibh

Aug 11, 2014
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@Martin. ...And stole your country. Lol

At first I thought you could use one of our 110v testers within adapter, but I hadn't realized your 110v is a midtap.
Our 120v (nominally 110v) is half of a mid tap 240v. In otherwords 120v to neutral whereas yours is 55v to neutral.

I would expect you would find a test device over there. If not, make and patent one.

@kellys_eye Yes, English is right. I speak it quite well.
 

hevans1944

Hop - AC8NS
Jun 21, 2012
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“I speak it quite well”, he said in a very posh English accent :)

I was born in Appalachia (Welch, WVA, USA), and so I inherited the version of English that is spoken there. There is some Native American Cherokee Indian blood in me too, but I don't identify much with those people, except spiritually. When Dad came back from WWII, an officer in the Army and later the Air Force, we moved away from our West Virginia heritage and lived as "Air Force Brats" at various Air Force bases scattered throughout the United States, as well as in foreign countries. A lot of our residences were in the South: Louisiana, Florida, Texas.

I discovered that English as taught in our schools, way back then, was regional in accent, meaning, and structure. For example the phrase "poke salad" was unfamiliar to me. I had heard the word "poke" used synonymous with "paper bag" so assumed "poke salad" was a salad that was first prepared by picking "greens" and placing them in a poke (bag). Close, but no cigar! The "poke" was reference to a poisonous weed called "pokeweed" that had to be boiled and strained several times to remove the toxin. The British also use different words to mean cookies, crackers, and similar food items. I had no idea what "tea and crumpets" refers to... perhaps tea and biscuits? Could a bagel also be a crumpet?

I love the English language, no matter how or where it is spoken. Some dialects are difficult to understand, and some "English" is actually a bastardization of English, French, Spanish, Latin, German, Italian, Yiddish, Creole, and (of course) Chinese, which a lot of us now call Chinglish. There may even be English versions in Tagalog and Japanese as well as other languages, but I know nothing about that. I do know that English is a dynamic language, unlike Latin which never changes. English-trained speakers and writers borrow (steal) from other languages to express their ideas. No one seems to care... well, I don't care. Your mileage (or kilometers) may differ.
 

Minder

Apr 24, 2015
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. I had no idea what "tea and crumpets" refers to... perhaps tea and biscuits? Could a bagel also be a crumpet?
You only have to travel ~50mls for a different accent in the UK.
As an ex UK pat by birth, I have had a yearning for Crumpets, so I have had to resort to making my own, as they do not know anything about them in Canada.
Just like Marmite, the only ones that can even get it past their lips has to be ex-British.
 

Martaine2005

May 12, 2015
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I hate marmite, my sister loves it.
Crumpets and tea?. We have crumpets for breakfast or a late night snack. They are nothing like bagels. In fact, once cooked and when cooled, it can be toasted in the toaster or grill (broiler?). I love mine toasted quite dark like well done toast and loads of butter!.

Martin
 

Martaine2005

May 12, 2015
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What?
The different accents and languages too are next door and in every street, road and neighbourhood!.
But I know what you mean. Leeds, Birmingham, Manchester etc.
I’m in very posh Fulham:)
 

kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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Crumpets with butter and Marmite....... mmmmm, nom nom!

Even nicer when toasted in front of an open fire.
 
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