Maker Pro
Maker Pro

microcontroller with updateable program memory while running?

F

Frank Buss

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm searching a microcontroller, which can re-propram itself from within
the microcontroller. Something like the DS5000
(http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm?qv_pk=2946), but without the 10-
year limit for loosing the content of the memory.

The following architecture would be great: Some flash memory integrated on
the chip and some RAM. On reset the content of the flash memory will be
copied to the RAM, which then can be executed. Another thing I wish: no
difference between data and program memory, so the program can read and
write itself. And the program should be able to change the flash memory for
firmware updates. And all this in one chip :)
 
R

Rene Tschaggelar

Jan 1, 1970
0
Frank said:
I'm searching a microcontroller, which can re-propram itself from within
the microcontroller. Something like the DS5000
(http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm?qv_pk=2946), but without the 10-
year limit for loosing the content of the memory.

The following architecture would be great: Some flash memory integrated on
the chip and some RAM. On reset the content of the flash memory will be
copied to the RAM, which then can be executed. Another thing I wish: no
difference between data and program memory, so the program can read and
write itself. And the program should be able to change the flash memory for
firmware updates. And all this in one chip :)

The modern microcontrollers are able to do that.
The AVR Mega Series, perhaps some newer PIC, the TI
controllers, and so on. Have a look at the respective
manufacturers pages.

Rene
 
F

Frank Buss

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rene Tschaggelar said:
The modern microcontrollers are able to do that.
The AVR Mega Series, perhaps some newer PIC, the TI
controllers, and so on. Have a look at the respective
manufacturers pages.

Thanks for the fast response. The ATmega32 looks very good. It doesn't copy
the flash memory to RAM, but executes the program in the flash memory. And
the flash memory can be updated from the program running on the chip, even
the memory containing the update program.

Some more nice features, which I need in my application: USART and 3 V
power supply (the L-type). And the 32 IO ports, 10 bit ADC, 32 kb flash,
1024 bytes EEPROM, 2 kb SRAM and 32 general purpose registers are more than
enough for my application. The price is fair (e.g. 12.75 euro at
http://www.reichelt.de ).

At http://www.ti.com and http://www.microchip.com I didn't found anything
like this.
 
A

Anthony Fremont

Jan 1, 1970
0
Some more nice features, which I need in my application: USART and 3 V
power supply (the L-type). And the 32 IO ports, 10 bit ADC, 32 kb flash,
1024 bytes EEPROM, 2 kb SRAM and 32 general purpose registers are more than
enough for my application. The price is fair (e.g. 12.75 euro at
http://www.reichelt.de ).

At http://www.ti.com and http://www.microchip.com I didn't found anything
like this.

http://www.microchip.com/1010/pline/picmicro/family/pic18/index.htm

These have up to 64K words flash with >40 years retention and self
reprogrammable, 4K internal SRAM and able to address external SRAM, 5
timers + watch dog, 16 10-bit ADC, 68 IO pins, 10 MIPS.

michael
 
F

Frank Buss

Jan 1, 1970
0
Anthony Fremont said:
http://www.microchip.com/1010/pline/picmicro/family/pic18/index.htm

These have up to 64K words flash with >40 years retention and self
reprogrammable, 4K internal SRAM and able to address external SRAM, 5
timers + watch dog, 16 10-bit ADC, 68 IO pins, 10 MIPS.

Thanks, the 18F252 looks nice. Compared to the Amtel32 it has not so much
flash and SRAM, but 16 kb flash and 1.5 kb RAM is fine for my
application:

http://www.microchip.com/download/lit/pline/picmicro/families/18fxx2/3956
4b.pdf

and costs 8,60 euro, only, so you get three 18F252 for the price of two
ATmega32 :)

I think I'll use the PIC, because I've already good experience with the
16F84 and I can use my PICSTART for programming it, I hope. But in the
end perhaps someone knows a chip from TI for comparing to the other
chips?
 
J

Jan-Erik Söderholm

Jan 1, 1970
0
Frank said:
Thanks, the 18F252 looks nice...

...and costs 8,60 euro, only,...

Is that incl or excl VAT ?
The 18F252 costs 7,65 EUR excl VAT here :
"http://www.voti.nl/shop/summary.html".
I think I'll use the PIC, because I've already good experience with the
16F84 and I can use my PICSTART for programming it, I hope. But in the
end perhaps someone knows a chip from TI for comparing to the other
chips?

Note that the programming algorithms are very different between the
*OLD* 16F84 and the newer PICs. You realy has to check your programmer.
B.t.w, I use the programmer that you can find on the same site as the
price figure above : "http://www.voti.nl/wisp628/index.html". Works
just great.
 
F

Frank Buss

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jan-Erik Söderholm said:
Is that incl or excl VAT ?
The 18F252 costs 7,65 EUR excl VAT here :
"http://www.voti.nl/shop/summary.html".

It's incl VAT (7,41 euro excl VAT), type "18f252" at "Artikelsuche" at
http://www.reichelt.de
Note that the programming algorithms are very different between the
*OLD* 16F84 and the newer PICs. You realy has to check your programmer.

I've updated it some years ago. Ok, now I've reinstalled the last
downloaded MPLAB version 5.4, which worked with my update and it supports
the 18F252. Perhaps I'll update to MPLAB 6 and the new firmware, when
ordering the chip and a 17C44 for the programmer update.
B.t.w, I use the programmer that you can find on the same site as the
price figure above : "http://www.voti.nl/wisp628/index.html". Works
just great.

Looks a bit like homebrew electronic. With PICSTART you can program
nearly all PICs (not the one in TQFP package without adapters), you have
an IDE with an integrated emulator for testing parts of the program on
the PC with simulated inputs and there are updates from the producer, if
new chips are developed.
 
A

Anthony Fremont

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks, the 18F252 looks nice. Compared to the Amtel32 it has not so much
flash and SRAM, but 16 kb flash and 1.5 kb RAM is fine for my
application:
I think I'll use the PIC, because I've already good experience with the
16F84 and I can use my PICSTART for programming it, I hope. But in the
end perhaps someone knows a chip from TI for comparing to the other
chips?

I've tinkered around with the 16F84(a) and the 16F628, but haven't used
the 18F series yet. I've been going thru the data sheet for the 18Fxx2
line and it's definitely a bit different and will take some getting used
to. I mean that in a good way though. ;-) Code paging is no longer a
hassle and the RAM banking is a bit more user friendly for newbies.
They seem like really nice chips with the bigger stack and extra
instructions, at least more friendly for C compilers than the 16F's.
Enjoy and good luck.

michael
 
A

Alex Gibson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Anthony Fremont said:
I've tinkered around with the 16F84(a) and the 16F628, but haven't used
the 18F series yet. I've been going thru the data sheet for the 18Fxx2
line and it's definitely a bit different and will take some getting used
to. I mean that in a good way though. ;-) Code paging is no longer a
hassle and the RAM banking is a bit more user friendly for newbies.
They seem like really nice chips with the bigger stack and extra
instructions, at least more friendly for C compilers than the 16F's.
Enjoy and good luck.

michael

18f's are much nicer than the 16f's.
a few with a bit more flash(>64kB) would be nice
and I'd wish they would hurry up and release
the usb versions they promoted for a very short period
before completely removing all the details.

no free compiler yet for the 18fxxx's
supposedly there are a few people working on a gcc port,
I haven't been able to track them down yet.

For the avr's there is a port of gcc ,
http://sourceforge.net/projects/winavr
or see www.avrfreaks.com

I believe there is also a port of gcc for the ti msp430's .

Alex
 
O

onestone

Jan 1, 1970
0
Frank said:
Thanks for the fast response. The ATmega32 looks very good. It doesn't copy
the flash memory to RAM, but executes the program in the flash memory. And
the flash memory can be updated from the program running on the chip, even
the memory containing the update program.

Some more nice features, which I need in my application: USART and 3 V
power supply (the L-type). And the 32 IO ports, 10 bit ADC, 32 kb flash,
1024 bytes EEPROM, 2 kb SRAM and 32 general purpose registers are more than
enough for my application. The price is fair (e.g. 12.75 euro at
http://www.reichelt.de ).

At http://www.ti.com and http://www.microchip.com I didn't found anything
like this.

Then have a look at www.msp430.com ti are wierd, they class the MSP430
micro as an analog part, fooling most frirst time lookers.

If you like the ATMega then you'll love the MSP430F149/169.

1.8V-3.6V
8MHz clock
60K flash
2K sram
2 * Uarts
2 x SCI
up to 10 PWM/capture compare channels
8 x 12 bit A/D at 500ksps
hardware multiplier/MAC in the 14x series
very low current
4 power saving modes, dual cystals
built in DCO
About US$7-8

Al
 
W

Wouter van Ooijen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Looks a bit like homebrew electronic.

It is home-developed, because my company is at my home. But it is not
actually produced at home, there are much cheaper places to have that
done :)
With PICSTART you can program
nearly all PICs (not the one in TQFP package without adapters), you have
an IDE with an integrated emulator for testing parts of the program on
the PC with simulated inputs

The IDE has nothing to do with the PS programmer, except that using
the programmer from the IDE is easy. You can develop your code in
MPLAB and then use just about any progger (including Wisp628, of
course) to do the progging.

One limitation of my Wisp628: it will not prog any non-flash PICs. But
the chance that you would want to use one of the old EPROM models is
very small.
and there are updates from the producer, if
new chips are developed.

No. The 17C44 using in the PS+ is full, the latest flash chips are not
supported by the PS+. BTW the 16F628 in the Wisp628 is full too, but I
still manage to support all flash chips that I get my hands on because
the chip does not contain specific code for each target. And there is
the 16F648A if I ever need more room.

BTW if you want to start with PICs you might want to read
http://www,voti.nl/swp




Wouter van Ooijen

-- ------------------------------------
http://www.voti.nl
PICmicro chips, programmers, consulting
 
Top