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Need help troubleshooting control board

waybel

Oct 27, 2022
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Hi everyone . I recently purchased a tire changing machine that came with an engine that was not working. It is an elprom engine and the control board is a Fiel 1007-01 .I took the cover off the control board and discovered that one of the 4 large capacitors had burned through it's solder contacts on board.Could see black soot that was on the metal board underneath it .There was a thermistor beside it that had a small piece out of the side of it .I replaced both but still board is not working.Need some help to test /diagnose what could be wrong with this .These boards are impossible to find so replacing it seems unlikely or very expensive.It's made in France and the motor is made in Italy.From what i gather the control board input is 120 volts then converts to DC then back to 220 volts ac to the motor. This board is connected to switches that controls the 2 speeds and reverse for the motor.I am only a beginner but have a multimeter and can solder well.Any help would be great
 

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waybel

Oct 27, 2022
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more pics
 

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waybel

Oct 27, 2022
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Well i sent them info for a quote and here is the reply
Hello,

Thank you for contacting Rockwell Automation/Lektronix.

As a result of their acquisition by Rockwell Automation, Lektronix will no longer be able to support the repair and/or supply of new or refurbished product within certain markets. We apologize for any inconvenience.
 

kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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If you want to do some basic test/checks then you'll need a 'decent' multimeter. Do you have one?

Assuming you do, we can start at 'first principles' and check the rectifier on the left-hand edge of the board.
 

waybel

Oct 27, 2022
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Not certain how decent it is lol
 

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waybel

Oct 27, 2022
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I checked online video how to test rectifier . I think it is ok. tested .456 on each leg and when pos/neg reversed tested OL
 

danadak

Feb 19, 2021
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Coloseup focused pic of bottom of board. Any signs of heat near a
component ? Or leakage ? Any caps bulging ?

1666997566522.png

1666997579969.png


Regards, Dana.
 

kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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The other area of 'concern' would be the main switching transistors that are likely under that other large heatsink. It looks very much like a manufacturer-specific device too which means that, assuming you can identify it (connections/datasheet) and make the relevant tests, you're unlikely to find a replacement part should it be dud.

What you're going to have to do is remove that large device first off....... else the method would be to reconnect the board and start measuring live voltages around it - which meas connecting it up on a workbench and flipping it top/bottom whilst taking those measurements.

Since this type of board usually (but not always) fails at the input side (mains rectification/smoothing/switching) or the output side (more switching and regulation) and not very often the bits in between then there is no real choice given the lack of schematic but to follow the 'usual suspects'.....
 

waybel

Oct 27, 2022
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I sent the Fiel company in France asking them a few questions and about a schematic of the board but there is no reply .There is little or no info anywhere on this board.They show a picture of the board and a pdf but thats about it
 

waybel

Oct 27, 2022
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The other area of 'concern' would be the main switching transistors that are likely under that other large heatsink. It looks very much like a manufacturer-specific device too which means that, assuming you can identify it (connections/datasheet) and make the relevant tests, you're unlikely to find a replacement part should it be dud.

What you're going to have to do is remove that large device first off....... else the method would be to reconnect the board and start measuring live voltages around it - which meas connecting it up on a workbench and flipping it top/bottom whilst taking those measurements.

Since this type of board usually (but not always) fails at the input side (mains rectification/smoothing/switching) or the output side (more switching and regulation) and not very often the bits in between then there is no real choice given the lack of schematic but to follow the 'usual suspects'.....
Ok will hook it to power and then hopefully you can give me pointers of where to measure voltages and what they should be .If you need better or closer up pics let me know
 

73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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Sir waybel . . . . ( Whut's a waybel ? )

What you're going to have to do is remove that large device first off.

I would Hold Off on that . . . . or even considering that . . .until initially seeing if any of the BASIC board requirements are initially being met.
More is to follow . . . as it is now being composed . . . . graphically
But, to fullee gits my munneys wurth on this 'a here posting now . . . .
Initially feed back the alpha / numbering on top of the boards low voltage power supply sourcing, which is using the 8 pin IC, (purposefully missing ts #5 pin ) and is physically located at boards edge, just above your BIG BLACK NICHICON replacement E-cap.
Its power derivation companion is being the top center located mini power transformer .
For my curiosity, but of minimal import, would also be the other 8 pin mini flat pack just to the left of that IC.
I suspect the adjunct black 4 pin rectangular optical isolator to be of the '817 family . . . along with a set of an additional 3 across the board tops right end..

73's de Edd . . . .
 

kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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Manufacturers have always been loathed to disclose any information about their products - IPR (intellectual Property Rights) they claim, although there is a legal case to try to force manufacturers to be more forthcoming. Even then, they'll just make 'impossible-to-source' parts (such as that multi-pinned package) that only THEY can provide (at more than the cost of a new board, natch)....

I'm encouraged by anyone that 'decodes' manufacturers stuff and posts the details on sites like this - getting one over on the manufacturers is a very satisfying!

Back to the original problem then.....

If the 'failure' was as a result of poor soldering (not unheard of) and the re-soldering and refitting of the defective part was successful then there is a SMALL possibility that the relay (white plastic lump in the middle of the board) is the culprit. You could do worse that replace it - looks to be a fairly common device.

I'm not suggesting that this will fix the issue but sometimes the least reliable part is the one the 'moves' - like a relay contact! Replacing it won't (a) cost much - in both time and/or expense and (b) eliminate at least one potential cause of failure. If modern washing machinery is anything to go by then relay contact failure is common enough for me to suggest this as a solution.

No guarantees - of course - and your symptoms as first described might point to something a lot more involved but I guess you could be clutching at straws here.....
 

Sunnysky

Jul 15, 2016
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Hi everyone . I recently purchased a tire changing machine that came with an engine that was not working. It is an elprom engine and the control board is a Fiel 1007-01 .I took the cover off the control board and discovered that one of the 4 large capacitors had burned through it's solder contacts on board.Could see black soot that was on the metal board underneath it .There was a thermistor beside it that had a small piece out of the side of it .I replaced both but still board is not working.Need some help to test /diagnose what could be wrong with this .These boards are impossible to find so replacing it seems unlikely or very expensive.It's made in France and the motor is made in Italy.From what i gather the control board input is 120 volts then converts to DC then back to 220 volts ac to the motor. This board is connected to switches that controls the 2 speeds and reverse for the motor.I am only a beginner but have a multimeter and can solder well.Any help would be great
It seems the company is gone and the original website was bought out by a Chinese lottery. There might be some useful specs on the archive but I wouldn't expect it. More direct to resolve is to analyze the purpose and best solution. Your tire changer needs a motor and you have some sort of inverter-driven motor to convert the power source to your location. It might be more expedient to find out your requirement specs and possible solutions

Typically speed coversion was done with a motor generator to convert 240 to 120Vac 60/50Hz then with an AC=>DC=>AC inverter to motor here which allows vbl. speed.

If you are in EU with 240Vac /50Hz and you need a variable-speed ESC motor controller board, that might be easier to find.

Your local power is ?

The attached motor is motor
Single phase 120Vac
Bi-direction control? Y/N ?
Variable speed Yes 0 to 168 Hz ( *3600/N = 5040 RPM) requirements?

Inverter to DC?
Remote control input? just on off?

1667131656797.png

Catalog in english https://web.archive.org/web/20130402002625/http://www.elprom-gem.com/cataloghi/Elprom_GEN_ it_ en.pdf

Motoinverter
- motor with a frequency inverter integrated into the
terminal box.
- This box remains of extremely reduced dimensions
comparing to the traditional motor terminal boxes
and it allows an easy installation even in very
reduced space.


The variable speed drive (VSD) included in the motor is a open
loop converter digitally programmed. The technologies used to
design the product and the components are based on the last
generation components like microcontrollers and IGBT for an
efficient motor drive.


What more useful info can you share?

Relay OK? Any live voltage tests?
 
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waybel

Oct 27, 2022
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If anyone can help me to test live voltages on this board would be great and how to check relay.I have 120 volt input here in Canada but can run a 220 volts if i have to will run another feed.This tire machine requires a 1 or preferably 2 speed and reversible motor.This machine is only for my personal use so whatever works is fine with me.I will probably use it to change 100 tires/year at the most .
 

73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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Sir waybel . . . . .

Don't expect textual or intellectual perfection on this context as it started out as initially being a private conversation


Don't I get any response to my #14 posting . . .or . . . are you still in the process of collecting that info ?
In the interim, I have developed the additional need of even more info.
About the units two thermistors . . . .RT1 and RT2 . . . . . .
In this units particular application / utilization . . . . . .What do YOU perceive / think that their functional purposes are being for ?
On the one you replaced, how did you go about knowing what to use to replace it ?
What was the ambient room temperature resistance of the original unit, as well as that same info for your replacement unit.

FAILURE ANALYSIS . . .
Do you know what manufacturing fallacy, that in time, led to your having to replace that sole 1000ufd / 200vdc E-cap ?

You tell me you have 120 V usage . . . got it .

I see two cables going inside the unit, of which, the very dead center one is being a tri- wire HOT AC line, a NEUTRAL AC line and an equipment ground wire.

Understood . . . . and they go into the respective push on connectors at the bottom left corner of the board . . . . . with you being SURE of their plug in positions . . . unless they are being size keyed.
The green ground gets a screw ring terminal.
Agreed ?
Now for the real nitty- gritty . . . the off center cable entry and those two black wire pairs . . . I can see them going inside to the slightly off center rear of the board and plugging into a 4 pin white Molex connector.

I'm expecting the wire gauge thickness, helping in holding the two separate plugs in alignment so that they don't get transposed / reversed.

Since you have the whole unit . . . to confirm with your inspection. I am expecting one set of wires to activate power activation of the REAL power aspect of the unit which will be the two HEFTY paralleled capacitor banks within the unit . . . one pair on top and one pair on bottom.
They are being AC power switched on, by the off center located, white ICE CUBE power relay . ( I'm Not expecting it to be faulted)
Two polarities of significant power exit from those cap banks ( + & - @ 160-170 VDC ( subject to motor loading pull down) @ 3 amps . . .BABYCAKES ! those power pairs then travel to the right on the board to the . . .HUGE hybrid power driving IC.

Then that power units input is waiting for its drive from the top right corners uP and its companion IC to the left as well as the ladders of surface mount resistors used to create a variable frequency capable . . . . . 3 phase related waveform . . . those 3 separate waveforms then go into the 3 canned 10 ufd caps as being drive to the BEHEMOTH hybrid POWER I.C.

That power units input is waiting for its drive from the top right corners uP and its companion IC to the left as well as the ladders of surface mount resistors to create a variable frequency capable . . . . . 3 phase related waveform . . . those 3 separate wave forms then go into the 3 canned 10 ufd caps (silver tops) as being drive to the BEHEMOTH hybrid I.C.

They exit that POWER IC as high energy drive for your brushless permanent magnet based motor and take 3 wide foil paths across the front of the board to the U V W marked terminals and connect to the motors 3 WYE wires.
Look down inside the casting hole to see your motors casing manufacturung date . . . I can see it but its not letting me read its fine detail.
I see that your motor controller board is being no older than 2014.

Confirm:

That one black wire set
is for signalling of need of full power actuation of the motor ( with its control boards low voltage power supply being in standby / hiccup mode from the instant that this unit was connected to AC power . . . 24 hrs a day.)

That the other black wire set is associated / connected to a speed pot for the feeding a variable resistance back to the units uP area for interpreting in doing a digital interfacing in the creation of a coincidental digital waveform.

Now if you will just feed back to me . . . . .we can start an actual circuit sleuthing.

Adjunct thought . . .
As for that loose description of "tire machine "?
Somehow, I don't seem to relate my thought process the aspect of the brute strength function of your using the machines fulcrum arm bar to roll a tire either onto or off from a rim . . . . .
BUT INSTEAD . . . . I am seeing a mounted tire being progressively being incrementally rotated up in higher speed to check out and perform balancing.

73's de Edd . . . . .
 
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waybel

Oct 27, 2022
20
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Sir waybel . . . . ( Whut's a waybel ? )

What you're going to have to do is remove that large device first off.

I would Hold Off on that . . . . or even considering that . . .until initially seeing if any of the BASIC board requirements are initially being met.
More is to follow . . . as it is now being composed . . . . graphically
But, to fullee gits my munneys wurth on this 'a here posting now . . . .
Initially feed back the alpha / numbering on top of the boards low voltage power supply sourcing, which is using the 8 pin IC, (purposefully missing ts #5 pin ) and is physically located at boards edge, just above your BIG BLACK NICHICON replacement E-cap.
Its power derivation companion is being the top center located mini power transformer .
For my curiosity, but of minimal import, would also be the other 8 pin mini flat pack just to the left of that IC.
I suspect the adjunct black 4 pin rectangular optical isolator to be of the '817 family . . . along with a set of an additional 3 across the board tops right end..

73's de Edd . . . .
My friend i think what you are asking is way above my skillset .To test that low voltage which is using pin 8 IC do i use pin 1 and 8 to test?
 

73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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Sir waybel . . . .

Maybe you haven't yet, caught up to my latest posting ?
You say . . .
To test that low voltage which is using pin 8 IC do i use pin 1 and 8 to test?


How can even I, know, if you still haven't given me its ID.

My friend i think what you are asking is way above my skillset
This below is being my mentioned Techno-referencing . . . coincident with any info coming from you for updating.

Vari-speed-Motor-Controller-Board.png
 
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