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Need help troubleshooting control board

73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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Sir waybel . . . . .

GREE E E E E A A A A A A AT on that forthcoming info !

Now see what I needed it for below, as that low voltage power supply is needed for powering up the BRAINS section of the board in its densely populated right top quadrant. ( lil' ole White ice cube relay also says me too . . .ME TOO ! . . . I needs my 12 voltskies.)

Now you only shortchanged me on the like info on the laterally located, other 8 pin Eye See and its adjunct located, black rectangular 4 pin optical isolator.

I submit the application note schema of that unit in use, below, with my redrafting it for the three DC outputs that your controller board is using.
Also, at bottom, there is a complete Pee Dee Eff data sheet for the NCP1013 family . . . . .with BOO KOO info !


My next needed info is your doing some tracking down in the main tire machine housing in order tto see where those 2 pin black wired connectors plug into .
Is it just having an on-off switch for one wire set and a speed controller resistance potentiometer for the other set. . . . . . . or do we also have a circuit board within that unit ?

THEN we will be able to take you on that requested controller board exploring sojourn and thereby fully enlighten your intelligentsia with what is being found from analyzing my mark ups of A thru G with a side trip on over to X.

Prepared NCP1012 Application Note . . . .

NCP1013 Power Suooly Controller Application.png



73's de Edd . . . . .



When your Plan "A" fails . . . . . .
Remember . . . . . .
That there are still 25 more letters in the alphabet.
 

waybel

Oct 27, 2022
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Oct 27, 2022
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The other 8 pin IC is 431A1H GZ34
The 4 pin isolator is V4378 F817d
That RT2 varistor number is 14d511k (the one i tested says OL) can i resolder that back on the board?
The thermistor i replaced.The old one was NTC 33 The new one is B57891mo333j000 NTC 33kohm 4300k
 

waybel

Oct 27, 2022
20
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Oct 27, 2022
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Here is a bad picture of the switch setup.The switch on the left is for reverse,the switch on the right bottom is for low speed and when foot pedal is depressed further hits the top switch combined with bottom one for higher rpm speed .Also picture is the rim clamp holder which the motor turns for the tire changer
 

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73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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O.K. with this posting JUST dedicated to the 4 wire connecting plug over to the control board
And the use of the two side by side pedals, which I presume to be located down near the floor for shoe toe operation, to leave both hands free for use upstairs.
I can see the sharing of a common wire between all switches and the using just one pin connection and one wire of each switch to account for the required actions.
Left pedal moved to the left or right for its action.
Right pedal at center position for off.
Right pedal at top position for CCW rotation.
Right pedal at bottom position for CW rotation.
Looking at photo 4 and the white disc and its linkage to the pedal at the bottom with the black bar across the top.
That has two "cam lobe lift" bump ups on it to relate with the positional aspects of the travelling rollers of the micro switch levers.
Now what I was wanting to think initially, was that there was being speed control of your motor .
Which could be done if the center of that white disc's Phillips screw was connecting into the shaft of a potentiometer.
With the body of the pot being on the back, hidden side . As the disc rotates pot resistance changes.
The pot has one wire going to all of the switches shared ground and one wire . ( And yes I can see the paralleling of two of those micro switches to get the same switching action, while thereby freeing up that one wire needed for the pot resistances feedback to regulate /set an operating speed.)

So o o o o now if you find no pot being back there . . . . . . then understood . . . . . . that they must relying upon that right pedal JUST for its switch info to run CW or CCW . . . and then . . . .AND THEN . . . . the uProcessor on the board takes on the additional task of creating a motor drive signal that G R A D U A L L Y ramps up speed from minimum to that max speed. . . . . . spreading out over a specific time period.
And if you have ever used a working unit, of one of these, you would have some idea of that duration.
Then the unpowered wheel would just gradually freewheel until finally stopping.
So o o o o if this unit is just really being an economy version of the hi dollah BEAR alignment and balancing machine, with this unit only offering the balancing aspect.
One had a chance to see imbalances at different speeds in the gradual ramping up of rotational speeds, as well as the non powered run down.

Photo 3 . . . . mounting of the tire and the rim clamp.
I am seeing the 4 sliding arms and the rim clamping ends , resplendently complete with their end sawtooth biting barbs .
And with the snipped air hose *** and yet another intact supply air hose down near the base of the unit.
So can I assume that the topside action of the arms is getting "strong arm" assist thru pneumatics ?
If so, there must be rotary seal pneumatic coupling in that area , as well as bearings if that spacing is the rotational junction between the fixed base and the rotating tire mounted portion.
I still can't visualize the motor shaft and its Vee belt coupling into this, with just these photos.

***
I know / knew at least 3 big corps that required / MANDATED that phased out equipment , either headed out for surplus /as is or dumpster bait, have far more than power cords / air line / hydraulic lines close clipped but some more critical components be removed.
PCB's had band saw slotted portions or contact fingers broken or parts pulled.
 
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waybel

Oct 27, 2022
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Yes the only thing the motor is responsible for is turning the rim clamp assembly for 1 speed the 2nd speed and reverse in order to change the tires.Yes it is only controlled by the right foot pedal and the 3 micro switches .Motor is connected with a v belt to a transmission which turns the rim clamp assembly.The hoses seen which i have now replaced are connected to cylinders that make those clamps go in and out grabbing the rim . You are correct in assuming that the dealer had to have cut the hoses .The guy i bought it from bought 2 different machines of different models and he got one working and sold this one to me.He couldn't understand why they would cut hoses and i told him exactly that.The good part is everything else works and so far only minor things missing which i have already found .Only thing needed is a running motor.By the way thank you so much for all the work and time you have put in for trying to help me out .Much appreciated.Pics attached of transmission and machine
 

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waybel

Oct 27, 2022
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Are there any test points on this board?Only voltage i see so far is the 120 volts input
 

kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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Edd's post(s) are very comprehensive and include much information to get you on your way. Have you read through them and done all that is asked? Your reply doesn't give us much confidence that you've either understood what was offered nor done any suitable testing - certainly we've had no 'results' back from you.

We can only offer as much assistance as you can take - we can't 'do it' for you.
 

waybel

Oct 27, 2022
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he was doing a great job .i was not able to give results because he actually did not ask me to test anything if you read the posts .I would think with someone with a lack of knowledge in this field like me that a basic test would suffice to start with .If he spoke a little more clearly would help also.I appreciate the humor but to a point is confusing.I answered every question he asked
 

GILVERWEY67

Dec 5, 2022
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Dec 5, 2022
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I am working on this exact board Fiel 1007-01. I have a short circuit that has created an open circuit in RT2. No visible burning/discoloration on the board.There is a bridge rectifier (KBU2510), that has positive and negative terminals, but the two ac terminals appear to be soldered together on the PCB. Is this normal?
Unfortunately can't find another circuit board and a new assembly is $3600 Canadian!!


















0
 

73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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OH BOY ! . . . . . now we's done gots ourselves TWO players in the game . . . .

waybel and GILVERWEY67

As for your seeing the (KBU2510) in the power supply aspect of the board, its not being used in the common manner in which you would expect.
I initially submitted a goldmine of info on my initial drawing of that unit and also saw the additional need for explaining the minor power supply , powering the brains of that unit, so I also submitted a marked up application note of the IC used in that unit along with its 3 output supply legs.
waybel . . .That flat pack being a TL431 precision shunt regulator really surprised me, as I always am seeing them in the conventional plastic, 3 leg TO-92 transistor casing.
GILVERWEY67
Additionally submitted . . . herewith, is that KBU2510, used as a FW bridge rectifier on top and then the bottom current application.

1670318473321.png

Look at that motors voltage / current specs, versus its horsie powders, and expect this VFD board to have the need of an available 8 amps of rectifiers and a max of 180 VDC + and - supplies, and that will be pulling down that peak voltage under mechanical loading.

Above on FWB you are using A&C diodes and B&D diodes to get your separate negative and positive leads.

Just below it , you are coming in with HOT AC line into paired BC diodes and paired B&D and A &C diodes will then get you two supplies as being referenced to the bottom common neutral AC line.
You can plainly see the +180 V supply with its + lead from the rectifier being connected to the top foil of the PCB and is traveling across the frontal foreground and connecting into the two closest 1000/200 E caps to take a foil path over to the right and enter into the center left side of the large frontal corner " CUSTOM POWER IC Cluster ".
Unfortunately the other top - terminal of the rectifier enters into a like foil path on the back / bottom side of the PCB where we can't see it as readily.
It should also go into that " CUSTOM POWER IC Cluster " from the bottom / other side.
I will be back to have one of you use an ohmmeter to see the validity / inter continuity of my A_B_C_D, etc markups, I have added.

Tell me about the RT-2 failure, as that is designed in its circuitry , for the initial huge surge cushioning of the 4000ufd of E caps getting charged up to 180VDC.
As for the other mini RT-1 thermistor . . . . TREAT IT / THEM WITH KID GLOVES !
I see it as it being the KEY for the operation of that mini supply's raw DC voltage source.
¿ SOMEHOW ? waybel is professing of knowing its actual part # and value.
However, EVERYBODY should know the specs of RT-2.

Thaaaaaaassssit . . . . . . for this time.

73's de Edd . . . . . .

You have two parts of the brain, “left” and “right”

in the left side, there’s nothing right,
and in the right side, there’s nothing left.




.
 

GILVERWEY67

Dec 5, 2022
2
Joined
Dec 5, 2022
Messages
2
OH BOY ! . . . . . now we's done gots ourselves TWO players in the game . . . .

waybel and GILVERWEY67

As for your seeing the (KBU2510) in the power supply aspect of the board, its not being used in the common manner in which you would expect.
I initially submitted a goldmine of info on my initial drawing of that unit and also saw the additional need for explaining the minor power supply , powering the brains of that unit, so I also submitted a marked up application note of the IC used in that unit along with its 3 output supply legs.
waybel . . .That flat pack being a TL431 precision shunt regulator really surprised me, as I always am seeing them in the conventional plastic, 3 leg TO-92 transistor casing.
GILVERWEY67
Additionally submitted . . . herewith, is that KBU2510, used as a FW bridge rectifier on top and then the bottom current application.

View attachment 57221

Look at that motors voltage / current specs, versus its horsie powders, and expect this VFD board to have the need of an available 8 amps of rectifiers and a max of 180 VDC + and - supplies, and that will be pulling down that peak voltage under mechanical loading.

Above on FWB you are using A&C diodes and B&D diodes to get your separate negative and positive leads.

Just below it , you are coming in with HOT AC line into paired BC diodes and paired B&D and A &C diodes will then get you two supplies as being referenced to the bottom common neutral AC line.
You can plainly see the +180 V supply with its + lead from the rectifier being connected to the top foil of the PCB and is traveling across the frontal foreground and connecting into the two closest 1000/200 E caps to take a foil path over to the right and enter into the center left side of the large frontal corner " CUSTOM POWER IC Cluster ".
Unfortunately the other top - terminal of the rectifier enters into a like foil path on the back / bottom side of the PCB where we can't see it as readily.
It should also go into that " CUSTOM POWER IC Cluster " from the bottom / other side.
I will be back to have one of you use an ohmmeter to see the validity / inter continuity of my A_B_C_D, etc markups, I have added.

Tell me about the RT-2 failure, as that is designed in its circuitry , for the initial huge surge cushioning of the 4000ufd of E caps getting charged up to 180VDC.
As for the other mini RT-1 thermistor . . . . TREAT IT / THEM WITH KID GLOVES !
I see it as it being the KEY for the operation of that mini supply's raw DC voltage source.
¿ SOMEHOW ? waybel is professing of knowing its actual part # and value.
However, EVERYBODY should know the specs of RT-2.

Thaaaaaaassssit . . . . . . for this time.

73's de Edd . . . . . .

You have two parts of the brain, “left” and “right”

in the left side, there’s nothing right,
and in the right side, there’s nothing left.




.
Ok, here is what i have found so far:
RT1- NTC33 1409. 35.2 Ohms @ room temp
RT2-14D511k, open circuit (part ordered)
D1-Bridge rectifier, KBU2510: probe- to -, probe+ to+=.506. probe- to+, probe+ to -=initially at 1.0906 and drops to open within 7 seconds.
probe - to -, probe + to AC=.468
probe +to -, probe - to AC= 1.906 to open in 3 seconds
probe +to +, probe- to AC= .453
probe - to +,probe + to AC= 1.906 to open in 3 seconds
resistance between the 2 feed terminals (120v input),after RT2 appears shorted-.5 ohms. Was thinking of powering up the board with a light bulb in series in order to do some live testing on the circuit board without doing more damage if there is a dead short? I have purchased a new machine but would like to haver this one as a backup. we are very busy changing over tires this time of year.
 
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