# Need PWM controller for current source to charge 48v lead acid.

S

#### Sjouke Burry

Jan 1, 1970
0
Greetings,

I have a small diesel engine spinning a DC generator. I need a
control chip that will take approximately 60v that generator puts out
and charge the lead acid bank. Bank is 16 27M Die Hard deep cycle
wired in 4x4 configuration. It is my intention to control diesel
speed to give me a little headroom for charging the battery pack. I
will use external mosfets to get about 50A of charging current, so
just looking for the control chip.

thanks,
Bob
N9NEO

Why not regulate the generator to output the correct charge voltage?
No conversion losses, only slight modifications to the
generator control hardware.

Y

#### Yzordderrex

Jan 1, 1970
0
Greetings,

I have a small diesel engine spinning a DC generator. I need a control chip that will take approximately 60v that generator puts out and charge the lead acid bank. Bank is 16 27M Die Hard deep cycle wired in 4x4 configuration. It is my intention to control diesel speed to give me a little headroom for charging the battery pack. I will use external mosfets to get about 50A of charging current, so just looking for the control chip.

thanks,
Bob
N9NEO

M

#### mike

Jan 1, 1970
0
Greetings,

I have a small diesel engine spinning a DC generator. I need a control chip that will take approximately 60v

that generator puts out and charge the lead acid bank. Bank is 16 27M
Die Hard deep cycle wired in 4x4 configuration.

It is my intention to control diesel speed to give me a little headroom
for charging the battery pack.

I will use external mosfets to get about 50A of charging current, so
just looking for the control chip.

thanks,
Bob
N9NEO
What's the fully charged voltage of your battery?
Looks like you have barely enough voltage.
Crank the engine speed down 5%. And regulate it by current
and voltage. Probably less lossy than the best switcher
you can build that will run off that little headroom.
High technology is not always the best answer.

You want to run the engine at maximum efficiency whatever
the charge level. That may not be the same speed over
the whole charging range.

And it only takes 10 milliohms of cable to lose half a volt.

K

#### [email protected]

Jan 1, 1970
0
or a switching regulator, so the engine can run at its most efficient
speed?

Gee, that's a GREAT idea. Maybe you should tell the car manufacturers

N

#### Nico Coesel

Jan 1, 1970
0
mike said:
that generator puts out and charge the lead acid bank. Bank is 16 27M
Die Hard deep cycle wired in 4x4 configuration.

It is my intention to control diesel speed to give me a little headroom
for charging the battery pack.

I'd use a microcontroller. That puts everything under one software
controlled loop. In that case it's also easy to have the diesel start
and stop automatically.
I will use external mosfets to get about 50A of charging current, so
just looking for the control chip.
What's the fully charged voltage of your battery?
Looks like you have barely enough voltage.
Crank the engine speed down 5%. And regulate it by current
and voltage. Probably less lossy than the best switcher
you can build that will run off that little headroom.
High technology is not always the best answer.

You want to run the engine at maximum efficiency whatever
the charge level. That may not be the same speed over
the whole charging range.

Running a diesel at maximum effiency is at near full power (or at
least near maximum torque). So a switcher if most likely to provide
the best fuel economy.

L

#### linnix

Jan 1, 1970
0
Do you think the UAW would let them do anything to improve a vehicle

if they can't pad the production line with more of their people?

For instance: Back in the '70s Delco designed a car radio that could be

installed from the front of the dash with no tools. The UAW threw a

hissy fit, because it would cost a few union jobs.

But can it be removed with no tools? If so, I would throw a fit as well. It would be open invitation for car thieves and broken windows.

K

#### [email protected]

Jan 1, 1970
0
But can it be removed with no tools? If so, I would throw a fit as well. It would be open invitation for car thieves and broken windows.

Rather than have the thief take a crowbar to your dash?

M

#### mike

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'd use a microcontroller. That puts everything under one software
controlled loop. In that case it's also easy to have the diesel start
and stop automatically.

Running a diesel at maximum effiency is at near full power (or at
least near maximum torque).
Up to here, that statement agrees with my "understanding".

So a switcher if most likely to provide
the best fuel economy.
The conclusion is the part I contest.
I define efficiency as the ratio of energy imparted to the battery
divided by the gallons of diesel fuel used.

The switcher reduces the generator current which reduces the torque.
It makes little sense to run at higher speed at reduced torque
and also lose 10% in the switcher.

This all depends on the facts presented...60V and 4 batteries in series.
IF there are other unstated loads or considerations or...or...
the optimal solution might be completely different.

Best you can do is solve the problem as disclosed.

I've given the OP the benefit of the doubt and assumed they
know that a 48V lead acid battery doesn't charge at 48V.

Y

#### Yzordderrex

Jan 1, 1970
0
Greetings,

I have a small diesel engine spinning a DC generator. I need a control chip that will take approximately 60v that generator puts out and charge thelead acid bank. Bank is 16 27M Die Hard deep cycle wired in 4x4 configuration. It is my intention to control diesel speed to give me a little headroom for charging the battery pack. I will use external mosfets to get about 50A of charging current, so just looking for the control chip.

thanks,

Bob

N9NEO

I didn't want to get into too many details here - but you guys (being engineers) leave me no choice Thanks for all the design input, but I'm reallyall set. I'm just looking to do a 50 amp current source using a buck converter. I've been designing power conversion gear since the 70's. I find the manufacturer search engines to be a little lacking, and Digikey not muchbetter.

The generator I believe has permanent magnets on the stator with a wound rotor and slip rings. (They sell em on Ebay for 4 or 5 hundred bucks. Peopleuse them as motors on motorcycles and lawn mowers and so forth.) I'm driving it with a Chinese diesel that is rated for 6HP. I have all set up, just have to buy the timing belt. I've geared it to run at the most efficientspeed. I will eventually charge 32 batteries when fully up and running.

I am also doing 48vdc to 120vac converter/inverter, and PV array chargers. All this is being done in my spare time as I am General Contractor for my house that this is all going to power. Utility wanted $17k to string wiresto my house. Roof going on today and windows next week. Hopeful to be inwith some kind of electricity by the end of the year. Picked up 2kW worthof panels and the state and fed is going to kick in$2400 in rebates.

I am in-between jobs now so a little reluctant to call my usual TI or LT reps. I've actually referred to this newsgroup as my design team on numerousoccasions. I've been hanging around here for probably 10 years and gotten a lot of good design advice.

Thanks for all the design advice. Hope this tome has shed some light on project. Tim was the clear winner with supplying part numbers. Tim has been a very good ally over the years as well as John and some others. Thanks to all for the input - I'll be sure to follow up with my design.

MERRY CHRISTMAS
Bob
N9NEO

M

#### Mark

Jan 1, 1970
0
Alternator+rectifier types can be regulated by shorting their outputs, often
with an SCR. Shorting such a generator with PWM'd mosfets would be interesting.

John,

I know this is true for some alternators, because most motorcycle
charging systems work this way, a simple shunt regulator at the
this can work only if the output Z is pretty high. In a sense the
alternator is always loaded at it's maximum current to keep the output
voltage down. The question is WHY would anybody design it this way.
Seems very wasteful of power and operating the alternator at max
current 100% of the time can't be good for the life of the windings,
in fact burnt out alternators is a common problem on some bikes. So
again, WHY are the designed this way?

Mark

L

#### Les Cargill

Jan 1, 1970
0
Do you think the UAW would let them do anything to improve a vehicle
if they can't pad the production line with more of their people?
For instance: Back in the '70s Delco designed a car radio that could be
installed from the front of the dash with no tools. The UAW threw a
hissy fit, because it would cost a few union jobs.

At one time there were variable rate automatic transmissions which
did optimize the power curve but I haven't heard of one in decades.

Nissan offered a continuously variable transmission on the Murano.

J

#### Jasen Betts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Car/bike alternators are designed to be sort of constant-current
devices, because that helps to drive the load over a wide range of
RPMs.

All altenators, even ideal altenators, have an inherent current limit,
due to the field strength limit.
As speed goes up, the open-circuit voltage goes up, but the w*L
impedance goes up too, so things sort of cancel. The reason the load
dump voltage is so high in a car is because the open-circuit voltage
of the alternator is maybe 60 volts, to charge a 12 volt battery.

they behave like lossy current transformers.

S

#### Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
Do you think the UAW would let them do anything to improve a vehicle
if they can't pad the production line with more of their people?
For instance: Back in the '70s Delco designed a car radio that could be
installed from the front of the dash with no tools. The UAW threw a
hissy fit, because it would cost a few union jobs.

At one time there were variable rate automatic transmissions which
did optimize the power curve but I haven't heard of one in decades.

Nissan has been using Jatco CVTs in some of their models:

http://www.jatco.co.jp/ENGLISH/products/

I've driven a couple of them a fair bit, and they're pretty good.
There have been some issues reported with reliability, but I've not
seen it personally.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

R

#### Rocky

Jan 1, 1970
0
At one time there were variable rate automatic transmissions which

did optimize the power curve but I haven't heard of one in decades.

Maybe not US manufacturers. But these are available with CVT.
HONDA JAZZ
Mercedes A & B class
Audi A4 - possibly other Audis

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