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Need Super Small Power Transformer.

S

S

Jan 1, 1970
0
Need Super Small Power Transformer.
Apx. 1/2" Square. , 12 - 15 MM
115V >> 10 or 12 V, .2A
Any suggestions. Please Post. Thanks.
 
B

Ben Bradley

Jan 1, 1970
0
S said:
Need Super Small Power Transformer.
Apx. 1/2" Square. , 12 - 15 MM
115V >> 10 or 12 V, .2A
Any suggestions. Please Post. Thanks.

Use one of those tiny "in the wall plug" offline switching supplies
that are replacing wall warts. Sorry, I forget where I saw these
mentioned, but they're out there. They are just the thing, and almost
certainly the only thing. I really doubt there's a 120V, 50 or 60 Hz
transformer as small as you want.
 
T

Tweetldee

Jan 1, 1970
0
S said:
Need Super Small Power Transformer.
Apx. 1/2" Square. , 12 - 15 MM
115V >> 10 or 12 V, .2A
Any suggestions. Please Post. Thanks.

I don't think you'll find a 2.5VA transformer that small. There must be
sufficient core and winding area to handle the power, and the size that you
want just doesn't give you that.

Looking at Signal Transformer's catalog, I see that their 2.5VA units are
1.62" x 1.43" x 1.12" ... more than twice what you want.
 
R

R.Legg

Jan 1, 1970
0
S said:
Need Super Small Power Transformer.
Apx. 1/2" Square. , 12 - 15 MM
115V >> 10 or 12 V, .2A
Any suggestions. Please Post. Thanks.

While it's theoretically possible to get 2.5W power throughput in an
isolation transformer with a volume of 2cm^3 and a surface area of
9cm^2, it is physically impractical to maintain commercial safety
isolation or mechanical integrity of connections using conventional
methods in such a device, particularly at low frequency.

You might find signal pulse transformers that can do it above 400Hz
(functional isolation), or telecom grade isolators that can function
above 4KHz (basic isolation), but you should expect a 50 degree rise
above ambient in these devices in free air when 2.5W is handled, as
efficiency is low.

A better technique is to look at component densities and operating
frequencies that are practical before designing yourself into a
power-limited corner.

What is the size of the unit consuming the output power? Fully 20% of
the total device volume and radiating surface area should be allotted
to the power conversion circuitry. Assume that the surface temperature
of the completed device will rise 1degreeC for every milliwatt of
power dissipated from every cm^2 of surface area.

The final end-use device is not practically portable or hand-held, if
it's metal surfaces have rises exceeding 35DegreesC. Larger rises are
tolerated from thermally insulating plastic assemblies (internal temp
^). This may set a limit on miniaturization, simply based on device
power consumption and the resulting surface or device junction
temperatures.

RL
 
S

S

Jan 1, 1970
0
R.Legg said:
While it's theoretically possible to get 2.5W power throughput in an
isolation transformer with a volume of 2cm^3 and a surface area of
9cm^2, it is physically impractical to maintain commercial safety
isolation or mechanical integrity of connections using conventional
methods in such a device, particularly at low frequency.

You might find signal pulse transformers that can do it above 400Hz
(functional isolation), or telecom grade isolators that can function
above 4KHz (basic isolation), but you should expect a 50 degree rise
above ambient in these devices in free air when 2.5W is handled, as
efficiency is low.

A better technique is to look at component densities and operating
frequencies that are practical before designing yourself into a
power-limited corner.

What is the size of the unit consuming the output power? Fully 20% of
the total device volume and radiating surface area should be allotted
to the power conversion circuitry. Assume that the surface temperature
of the completed device will rise 1degreeC for every milliwatt of
power dissipated from every cm^2 of surface area.

The final end-use device is not practically portable or hand-held, if
it's metal surfaces have rises exceeding 35DegreesC. Larger rises are
tolerated from thermally insulating plastic assemblies (internal temp
^). This may set a limit on miniaturization, simply based on device
power consumption and the resulting surface or device junction
temperatures.

RL

The actual device uses .06A at 6VDC. I'm building a DC power supply. I'm
just giving myself a lot of room even though I don't have much space. What
should it be rated to maintain safety? Remember, were talking 115AC to 12,
10 or 8 volts AC transformer and I need it small (and cheep).
 
I

Ian Stirling

Jan 1, 1970
0
The actual device uses .06A at 6VDC. I'm building a DC power supply. I'm
just giving myself a lot of room even though I don't have much space. What
should it be rated to maintain safety? Remember, were talking 115AC to 12,
10 or 8 volts AC transformer and I need it small (and cheep).

Does it need isolation?
 
R

R.Legg

Jan 1, 1970
0
The actual device uses .06A at 6VDC.

Power throughput is not reduced by linear post-regulation.
I'm building a DC power supply.
........?

I'm just giving myself a lot of room even though I don't have
much space.

Please re-read the line above and then tell me it makes any kind of sense.

What
should it be rated to maintain safety? Remember, were talking 115AC to 12,
10 or 8 volts AC transformer and I need it small (and cheep).

Comments in previous post obviously haven't penetrated.

Go forth and get thee an wall-wart.

RL
 
I

Ian Stirling

Jan 1, 1970
0
S said:

There are a number of chips that may suit, that do off-line power
supply, by various means, from straight-forward switchers on, to
simpler schemes.

I seem to remember that http://www.st.com/ have some.
 
K

Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund

Jan 1, 1970
0
S said:

No isolation? - then the safety relies on the user cannot access any metal
parts - AFAIR - 12mm isolation distance to metallic enclosure

At that low wattage - you might use a charged capacitor solution if your
product consumes below 75W. Below 75W the standards let you produce mains
harmonics without limit. So if you always connect to an ac line - make a
circiut that monitors the AC voltage and turns on a MOSFET to charge a
capacitor when the voltage is between 10 to 12 Volt

Cheers

Klaus
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0


|
---/ zener
0----||---------- ~ bridge + / \
110V 60 Hz rectifier ---
0 ----------------~ - |

calculate the cap for the output current + zener current and 1 / omega x C
Cap should be able to handle 2 x 110 x sqrt2 x 1.5 or so.
Strongly recommended to put a 100mA fuse in series too.

JP
 
N

N. Thornton

Jan 1, 1970
0
S said:


Then another possible option would be a CR to limit i flow, followed
by a BR and a reservoir cap.

Regards, NT
 
S

S

Jan 1, 1970
0
R.Legg said:
Power throughput is not reduced by linear post-regulation.


Please re-read the line above and then tell me it makes any kind of sense.



Comments in previous post obviously haven't penetrated.

Go forth and get thee an wall-wart.

RL

Wall-wart?? No, internal power supply!
Doing it right.
 
S

S

Jan 1, 1970
0
N. Thornton said:
Then another possible option would be a CR to limit i flow, followed
by a BR and a reservoir cap.

Regards, NT

It's all way too complicated. I just need a little transformer to make a
little simple 8 - 12VDC power supply.
It's looks like it will have to be at 1 cubic inch.
 
J

John Woodgate

Jan 1, 1970
0
[email protected]>) about 'Need Super Small Power
Transformer.', on Sun, 7 Mar 2004:
Wall-wart?? No, internal power supply! Doing it right.

In what way is having an internal power supply 'doing it right'?
While it is technically satisfying to have just the one box, there is a
good reason why wall warts proliferate.

If you use a wall wart (with low voltage output and thermal protection),
that's the only bit that needs critical safety testing, and you buy it
with that already done and paid for.

If you admit the mains supply to your equipment box, ALL of it has to be
tested. And you provide a path for RFI to get in, you generate inside
it, from a small block that gets HOT, a power-frequency magnetic field
with strong 3rd and 5th harmonics etc., etc..
 
L

legg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Wall-wart?? No, internal power supply!
Doing it right.

line cord mechanical interface
fusing
safety

Try roller skating in a buffalo herd.

RL
 
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