fogh said:
it >>>to only uses it to make noises by banging it against rocks or
the >>>bars to it's cage.
when > the cow doesn't feel pain. Like, shit they can.
determine > if something has consciousness, it is simply impossible
to construct a > "pain detector". There simply is no way of
numerically knowing when a > foetus has enough neurons to constitute
a feeling of pain within the > current understanding of the brain.
One can only "reasonable" say that, > say prior to 3 months from
conception, there are essentially no relevant > neural connections,
so no pain. However, where a "reasonable" line may > be drawn after
his point, is completely arbitrary guesswork. >
Kevin,
you are biased and you currently assume (i.e. you are biased by an
currently source) that this research had stg to do with electronics
or systems.
We are all biased in general, but as far as scientific based, not a
chance. My opinions are based on simple and verifiable axioms.
This was a Phd study for the title of doctor in
medicine. I used the word "detector" loosely. I was talking about a
clinical procedure to look for non-obvious and non-expressed signs of
pain,
Oh...
rather than actual sensor equipment (as in thermocouple, Hall
probe ...). When you know a way to look for a set metabolic
manifestations that have been empirically related to pain,
This is not possible in principle. Tell me how a cat tells us that it is
feeling pain.
you can do
that with conventional equipment and you do not need to undertand how
the brain or neural nets function.
How the neural nets function is completely irrelevant. What maters is
*proving* that certain signals are directly related to a conscious
emotion.
It would be rather annoying if a
physician refused to serve your prescription of penicillin under the
pretext that he doesn t understand fully an down to molecular/quantum
level the interactions between host and germs.
You simply don't understand the issues involved. As I explained, it is
impossible to form a definition of pain, irrespective of what may or may
not physically causes it. There us no way to distinguish a well
programmed non conscious computer from a conscious individual. That is,
a machine can be made that to all intents and purposes duplicates the
output from a conscious individual, e.g. one feeling pain. Since this
duplicate machine can say, "I feel pain", there is no way of knowing if
in fact it does. Therefore the whole concept of a pain detector is
completely bogus. It is not possible, in principle. e.g.
http://www.anasoft.co.uk/replicators/thehardproblem.html
If you (please) restrict the discussion to those premature foetuses
that are 7 month and older. Do you or don t you find that this
research had better been used to rationalise the prescription of pain
drugs in hospitals rather than efficiency of slaughterhouses ?
Irrelevant as there is no way to prove that such a machine can in
reality detect the pain of foetuses. What to you propose the featus do,
"oh, I say, that hurts". Get real dude.
Kevin Aylward
[email protected]
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
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