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Overhead on memory sticks?

J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Just curious: Got a USB memory stick 4-pack at CostCo. Four Dane-Elec
512MB stick, great deal ($40). After plugging in the first one the
laptop hard drive was crunching a lot (this laptop is used to USB
sticks). Upon checking an empty stick it turns out that properties lists
514MB but only 490MB of that free.

What kind of overhead is in those sticks? If it's really >20MB, why so much?
 
A

Andreas Kabel

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
Just curious: Got a USB memory stick 4-pack at CostCo. Four Dane-Elec
512MB stick, great deal ($40). After plugging in the first one the
laptop hard drive was crunching a lot (this laptop is used to USB
sticks). Upon checking an empty stick it turns out that properties lists
514MB but only 490MB of that free.

What kind of overhead is in those sticks? If it's really >20MB, why so
much?


Maybe because 514/(1.024*1.024) = 490.2?
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ben said:
The filesystem has overhead. Check out this:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~hjohn/SFS/spaceeff.htm

That I understand. But it still doesn't explain why an empty stick has
so much overhead. As a comparison, my oldest memory stick has a much
lower overhead percentage. It's a 1GB Lexar and the overhead is only
14MB, versus 24MB on the new 512MB sticks. Looks like the new ones are
more than a factor of three higher in overhead.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Andreas said:
Maybe because 514/(1.024*1.024) = 490.2?


But 2^19 = 524.29 :)

Anyhow, whatever number of cells they squeezed in, if the net available
space is 490MB it shouldn't be advertised as 512MB. But I am not
complaining, it's enough for my purposes. Just wondering.
 
R

Robert Latest

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
Upon checking an empty stick it turns out that properties lists
514MB but only 490MB of that free.

There's the marketing megabyte, which is 10^6 = 1000000
Then there's the 'proper' megabyte: 2^20 = 1048576

Not incidentally, 514*10^6 = 490.2*2^20.

It's not filesystem overhead. It's a matter of perspective.

robert
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
Just curious: Got a USB memory stick 4-pack at CostCo. Four Dane-Elec
512MB stick, great deal ($40).

It is a rotten deal, a 2GB stick goes for 14,95 Euro (19.99 $ as today).
Here is where I buy stuff and DVDs etc:
http://www.opus.nl/
After plugging in the first one the
laptop hard drive was crunching a lot (this laptop is used to USB
sticks). Upon checking an empty stick it turns out that properties lists
514MB but only 490MB of that free.
:-(
 
P

Phil Hobbs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
But 2^19 = 524.29 :)

Anyhow, whatever number of cells they squeezed in, if the net available
space is 490MB it shouldn't be advertised as 512MB. But I am not
complaining, it's enough for my purposes. Just wondering.

The same is true of disk drives--the free space reported is that
actually available for files, and excludes e.g. file system data
structures and hot spare sectors. I don't know what Windows reports in
Properties, though--I've given up trying to guess.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jan said:
It is a rotten deal, a 2GB stick goes for 14,95 Euro (19.99 $ as today).
Here is where I buy stuff and DVDs etc:
http://www.opus.nl/

Yeah, I know you can get really large sticks in singles. But these came
in really nice designs and dazzling metallic colors :)

I don't need 2GB and for $20 I'd only get one physical device. What I
need them for is when I go to clients. Blue is for client A, silver is
for client B etc. My old rule is to never, ever, mix that together. My
wife liked these so much she wanted to have the red one. Not that she
needs it but because it's pretty. Have to think about that...
 
J

Jim Yanik

Jan 1, 1970
0
I just bought a 512MB "Attache" USB memory stick from CompUSA for
17.00,with a 13.00 rebate,so end cost was $5.(plus tax on $17,of course)
I hate rebates,though;PITA.

Too bad CompUSA's site said the stick was usable on "W98/SE",and other
similar sticks said "SE-only",so I thought it would work with my W98 1st
edition system;nope. No drivers for W98FE.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
I just bought a 512MB "Attache" USB memory stick from CompUSA for
17.00,with a 13.00 rebate,so end cost was $5.(plus tax on $17,of course)
I hate rebates,though;PITA.

I don't like mail-in rebates at all. IMHO it's a stupid concept and I
generally do not buy if that's the form of rebate. But I guess they bank
on the hopes that some people will "forget". Plus maybe all the tourist
shoppers and not-so-legal aliens who don't have a US bank account and
cannot cash in those rebates.

Too bad CompUSA's site said the stick was usable on "W98/SE",and other
similar sticks said "SE-only",so I thought it would work with my W98 1st
edition system;nope. No drivers for W98FE.

Then I guess you'd be entitled to give it back.
 
R

Rich Webb

Jan 1, 1970
0
OfficeMax and Best Buy (starting with their Canadian stores) are
finally getting rid of the d*mn things.

[Apologies for continuing off topic but] I've discovered that CompUSA,
on at least some rebates, handles all of the processing on-line. Go to
the magic web site and enter your store ID and receipt number; the
rest is pretty much automatic. They still take forever to arrive in
the mail, of course.
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
I don't like mail-in rebates at all. IMHO it's a stupid concept and I
generally do not buy if that's the form of rebate. But I guess they bank
on the hopes that some people will "forget". Plus maybe all the tourist
shoppers and not-so-legal aliens who don't have a US bank account and
cannot cash in those rebates.



Then I guess you'd be entitled to give it back.

All the CompUSA stores around here are closing up shop. Even
resorting to the auto lot game of hiring a kid to stand on the corner
and wave a "going out of business" sign.

...Jim Thompson
 
T

Tim Shoppa

Jan 1, 1970
0
That I understand. But it still doesn't explain why an empty stick has
so much overhead. As a comparison, my oldest memory stick has a much
lower overhead percentage. It's a 1GB Lexar and the overhead is only
14MB, versus 24MB on the new 512MB sticks. Looks like the new ones are
more than a factor of three higher in overhead.

1GB is really 1024MB, right?

1024-986 = 38MB.

So it has more overhead than the 512MB stick.

I remember when I was proud of shaving off a word (two whole bytes!)
from a PDP-11 subroutine!

Tim.
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:57:48 -0500, Spehro Pefhany

[snip]
OfficeMax and Best Buy (starting with their Canadian stores) are
finally getting rid of the d*mn things.
[snip]

I have an OfficeMax account... they deliver for free. I have all
kinds of coupons, $30 off in the store and 20% off from the web, etc.

I usually end up with really good prices from them.

...Jim Thompson
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim said:
1GB is really 1024MB, right?

Not this one. Was marketed as 1G and shows 989 usable. I go by what the
marketeers have promised and what the product actually delivers ;-)

1024-986 = 38MB.

So it has more overhead than the 512MB stick.

I remember when I was proud of shaving off a word (two whole bytes!)
from a PDP-11 subroutine!

My father had to do that. Automated a complete cold-rolled-steel line
within 2K of RAM. Which was a lot back in the 60's. Just imagine, in
Vista they recommend to provide 1G (!) just to make sure it can work at
all. Lots of bloat, needs half a million times what my father and the
guys needed. Pathetic.
 
R

Richard Henry

Jan 1, 1970
0
There's the marketing megabyte, which is 10^6 = 1000000
Then there's the 'proper' megabyte: 2^20 = 1048576

Not incidentally, 514*10^6 = 490.2*2^20.

It's not filesystem overhead. It's a matter of perspective.

Disk drive megabytes (10^^6) have always been smaller than memory
megabytes (2^^20).

I guess the question then becomes: is a flash stick a disk drive or a
memory?
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Richard said:
Disk drive megabytes (10^^6) have always been smaller than memory
megabytes (2^^20).

I guess the question then becomes: is a flash stick a disk drive or a
memory?

More like a drive because the PC handles it as such.
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
I just bought a 512MB "Attache" USB memory stick from CompUSA for
17.00,with a 13.00 rebate,so end cost was $5.(plus tax on $17,of course)
I hate rebates,though;PITA.

OfficeMax and Best Buy (starting with their Canadian stores) are
finally getting rid of the d*mn things.
 
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