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Painless micro program

What is the most painless way to program a small micro for 2 PWM
inputs and 2 PWM outputs? Logic would consist of timing and simple
math manipulation of input to output.
I can handle the hardware, but software is a foreign language. Would
consider easy to impliment software or a low cost programming
service. Comments and suggestions appreciated.
 
D

Donald

What is the most painless way to program a small micro for 2 PWM
inputs and 2 PWM outputs? Logic would consist of timing and simple
math manipulation of input to output.
I can handle the hardware, but software is a foreign language. Would
consider easy to impliment software or a low cost programming
service. Comments and suggestions appreciated.
How bad does this program need to be done ?

1) Take the cost of your time

2) Guess how much time it would take _you_ to "program a small micro"
and double it.

3) That would be your base line to start paying someone how knows what
their doing to get it done.


If you have the time and would like to learn how to do this yourself,
I would suggest googleing for *** programmers and free *** software.

good luck

donald

PS: Don't let the CPU zelots tell you which is best, at your level any
CPU will do to learn on.

*** = AVR, PIC, 8051, 6808, ARM, etc, etc, etc ........

PPS: I like AVR :)
 
J

John Larkin

How bad does this program need to be done ?

1) Take the cost of your time

2) Guess how much time it would take _you_ to "program a small micro"
and double it.

3) That would be your base line to start paying someone how knows what
their doing to get it done.


If you have the time and would like to learn how to do this yourself,
I would suggest googleing for *** programmers and free *** software.

good luck

donald

PS: Don't let the CPU zelots tell you which is best, at your level any
CPU will do to learn on.

*** = AVR, PIC, 8051, 6808, ARM, etc, etc, etc ........

PPS: I like AVR :)


Anybody got thoughts on AVR versus the TI MSP430? We're looking for a
small, cheap, 14-pin-ish flash-based uP with adc's, essentially to
manage a fancy solid-state relay. I think neither has hardware
multiply in the low-end chips, but that's survivable. We're looking to
digitize maybe 3 analog inputs and crunch an algorithm every 100 us or
less, and do some serial control i/o, and the TI looks pretty good,
fetching and executing an instruction word every clock.

John
 
A

Archilochus

What is the most painless way to program a small micro for 2 PWM
inputs and 2 PWM outputs? Logic would consist of timing and simple
math manipulation of input to output.
I can handle the hardware, but software is a foreign language. Would
consider easy to impliment software or a low cost programming
service. Comments and suggestions appreciated.

I'd say the easiest (at least for me) has been by using a BASIC
compiler. I use various Microchip PIC chips & PicBASICPro compiler -
http://www.melabs.com
Several other BASICs are available, as well as some free & limited
demo versions for the AVR's...
http://www.mcselec.com/
http://www.fastavr.com/
The code generated by the BASIC compilers is not as compact as well
written assembly code - but the BASIC compilers make learning and
using micros far easier.

Arch
 
M

MooseFET

How bad does this program need to be done ?

1) Take the cost of your time

2) Guess how much time it would take _you_ to "program a small micro"
and double it.

3) That would be your base line to start paying someone how knows what
their doing to get it done.

If you have the time and would like to learn how to do this yourself,
I would suggest googleing for *** programmers and free *** software.

good luck

donald

PS: Don't let the CPU zelots tell you which is best, at your level any
CPU will do to learn on.

*** = AVR, PIC, 8051, 6808, ARM, etc, etc, etc ........

PPS: I like AVR :)

That just proves you are silly. 8051's rule! :)


I think one of the best conplete development kits is the www.cygnal.com
product.
 
M

Michael

Anybody got thoughts on AVR versus the TI MSP430? We're looking for a
small, cheap, 14-pin-ish flash-based uP with adc's, essentially to
manage a fancy solid-state relay. I think neither has hardware
multiply in the low-end chips, but that's survivable. We're looking to
digitize maybe 3 analog inputs and crunch an algorithm every 100 us or
less, and do some serial control i/o, and the TI looks pretty good,
fetching and executing an instruction word every clock.

John

AVRs have hardware multiply in the MEGA series, which are still quite
cheap (Digi-Key shows the MEGA48 as $1.50 each in quantities of 100).

Not sure how MSPs compare to AVRs.
 
D

Donald

MooseFET said:
That just proves you are silly. 8051's rule! :)


I think one of the best conplete development kits is the www.cygnal.com
product.

See, now the OP has done it.

The real zealots are coming out !!! ;-)

I forgot about MSP430's, I have been playing with a demo kit from TI and
it is another good chip for my design arsenal.

donald
 
J

John Larkin

That just proves you are silly. 8051's rule! :)

I can't at the moment recall a more repulsive architecture, excepting
maybe the IBM 1401.

John
 
J

John Larkin

I think that probably TI would be the best, but I don't think there
are any showstopper issues with either one.

I was reading through the instruction set last night. It looks *very*
PDP-11, nice and orthogonal, and things move in the proper direction

MOV.B SRC, DST

unlike certain bass-ackwards machines I could name. And they're
working one level of deferral from what I'm used to,

JMP R5

I mean, how can you jump to a register? That's going to cause me
trouble.

The BIS/BIC/BIT opcodes are pure 11, although they added the AND,
which the PDP-11 didn't have. But they use some weird names, like
getting "branch" and "jump" totally backwards.

Too bad about the multiply. But we'll mostly be squaring (for RMS) and
that can be finnessed.

John
 
L

linnix

AVR is much easier to program than MSP.
...

Anybody got thoughts on AVR versus the TI MSP430? We're looking for a
small, cheap, 14-pin-ish flash-based uP with adc's, essentially to
manage a fancy solid-state relay. I think neither has hardware
multiply in the low-end chips, but that's survivable.

Just avoid the tinyAVRs if you want multiplier.
QFN 32 is as small as SOIC-14.
We're looking to
digitize maybe 3 analog inputs and crunch an algorithm every 100 us or
less, and do some serial control i/o, and the TI looks pretty good,
fetching and executing an instruction word every clock.

Same for AVR.
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Anybody got thoughts on AVR versus the TI MSP430? We're looking for a
small, cheap, 14-pin-ish flash-based uP with adc's, essentially to
manage a fancy solid-state relay. I think neither has hardware
multiply in the low-end chips, but that's survivable. We're looking to
digitize maybe 3 analog inputs and crunch an algorithm every 100 us or
less, and do some serial control i/o, and the TI looks pretty good,
fetching and executing an instruction word every clock.

John

I think that probably TI would be the best, but I don't think there
are any showstopper issues with either one.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
D

Donald

Anybody got thoughts on AVR versus the TI MSP430? We're looking for a
small, cheap, 14-pin-ish flash-based uP with adc's, essentially to
manage a fancy solid-state relay. I think neither has hardware
multiply in the low-end chips, but that's survivable. We're looking to
digitize maybe 3 analog inputs and crunch an algorithm every 100 us or
less, and do some serial control i/o, and the TI looks pretty good,
fetching and executing an instruction word every clock.

John
[/QUOTE]

I am sure you are trying to program this is C.

TI has a trial version of their compiler on their web site.
It will do upto 8K of code.

The CCE 2.0 also has a simulator in the package.

You might want to try their C compiler to see if it comes close to the
100uSec time required.

There is also a 4K IAR compiler availabel from the same location.

http://focus.ti.com/mcu/docs/mcupro...tabId=1203&familyId=342&toolTypeId=1#software

Please share what you find out, I would like to know how the CCE and IAR
compilers compare in code size and speed.

donald
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

I was reading through the instruction set last night. It looks *very*
PDP-11, nice and orthogonal, and things move in the proper direction

MOV.B SRC, DST

unlike certain bass-ackwards machines I could name. And they're
working one level of deferral from what I'm used to,

JMP R5

I mean, how can you jump to a register? That's going to cause me
trouble.

The BIS/BIC/BIT opcodes are pure 11, although they added the AND,
which the PDP-11 didn't have. But they use some weird names, like
getting "branch" and "jump" totally backwards.

Too bad about the multiply. But we'll mostly be squaring (for RMS) and
that can be finnessed.

John

How about a LPC2101FBD48-S? under $2 in 100's. 7mm x 7mm. You would
need a second voltage regulator. You can program it in assy if you
want.

http://www.standardics.nxp.com/products/lpc2000/pdf/lpc2101.lpc2102.lpc2103.pdf



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
J

John Larkin

I am sure you are trying to program this is C.

I'm not. I like assembly, and the TI reminds me of the PDP-11. There
*are* machines I wouldn't dream of programming in assembly, of course.

The cool thing about the TI is that every opcode fetch takes 62 ns, so
you could practically measure execution times by taking a ruler to the
assembly listing.

John
 
D

Donald

John said:
I'm not. I like assembly, and the TI reminds me of the PDP-11. There
*are* machines I wouldn't dream of programming in assembly, of course.

The cool thing about the TI is that every opcode fetch takes 62 ns, so
you could practically measure execution times by taking a ruler to the
assembly listing.

John
You are a real man John !!! ;-)

After looking over the assembly manual for the MSP430, I like it better
than the AVR.

But, except for a few exceptions, I myself start with C and only go to
assembly if it is really, really, really necessary.

good luck and have fun ( that's what its all about )

donald
 
E

ehsjr

John said:
I can't at the moment recall a more repulsive architecture, excepting
maybe the IBM 1401.

John

Yeah but, back then Real Men programmed in "toggle". :)
Ed
 
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