PCIe to GoPro?

[kmd1984]

Hello,

I'm completely new to electronics and I'm unsure if this is the appropriate place to ask this question. Nevertheless, I would like to understand the following:

I recently read that when you connect a camcorder to a firewire card, the firewire cable functions similarly to a USB cable by transferring data. However, I'm unsure if data and signal are the same thing. In this case, I'm curious to know who actually performs the data conversion: is it the PC or the firewire card? Considering the presence of various "chips" and components on a firewire card, I assume they play a role in this process. If the firewire card handles the conversion, would it be possible to create a small case with a PCIe slot and a battery, allowing us to "capture" the video signal from the PCIe slot?

With this setup, you could connect the PCIe slot to a GoPro and record the incoming video signal.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this matter.

Thank you.

P.s. By "connect" I mean internally as a GoPro has no input jack.

 

[Delta Prime]

P.s. By "connect" I mean internally as a GoPro has no input jack.

model of your GoPro.
IEEE 1394 Interface. FireWire.

 

[kmd1984]

model of your GoPro.
IEEE 1394 Interface. FireWire.

Thanks for the reply, I guess. Like I said, I know nothing about this stuff so attaching a pdf that "explains" all that stuff does very little, next to nothing. : )
I think my question was straight forward. Does a PCIe card have the video signal come out of directly or does the signal have to be converted, somewhere? If the video data is converted in the card and the video signal comes out directly from the pcie card, you should be able to "replace" it with the lens of the GoPro and record it that way. That is how a noob talks and thinks. Got it?

Thanks.

 

[Delta Prime]

That is how a noob talks and thinks. Got it?

Yes. I have it.

 

[Harald Kapp]

I think my question was straight forward. Does a PCIe card have the video signal come out of directly or does the signal have to be converted, somewhere?

Your question isn't by far as straight forward as you think.

1. Which PCIe card? PCIe is an interface standard that defines how such a card communicates with a PC or laptop. This interface can be used for many different applications, e.g. for transferring video, for communicating via Ethernet, for reading smart cards etc.
2. Where should the video signal come out from? Do you want a video output connector? Or do you want the "output" be to the PC/laptop via the PCIe interface?
3. Assuming you want to capture the video from the GoPro to a PC/laptop via the PCIe card: As there is no video output connector on the GoPro (as you state in post #1 where I think you mean output jack, not input jack, see footnote) you'll have to find a point inside the GoPro where you can tap into a video signal. Not impossible in general but most likely not possible for you, being completely new to electonics.
4. Firewire, USB, PCIe, whatever interface protocoll you would use: There will be multiple conversions of the camera's intenal video signal to different intermediate formats until the video can be captured by the PC/laptop. These conversions are of a physical nature (voltage levels, impedance etc.) as well as on a logical level ( scan data from the camera, packet data over the connecting cable, MP4 data for storing the video plus possibly a few more intermediate formats.
5. Even if you had all the hardware and correct connections you still need the software to control the hardware (aka drivers) and to display or store the video.

footnote: If the camera had an input jack, the video would be input from the PC/laptop to the camera which imho makes no sense. The camera should be the source of the video., thus any connector would be an output.

 

[kmd1984]

Yes. I have it.

Whatever dude...

 

[kmd1984]

Your question isn't by far as straight forward as you think.

1. Which PCIe card? PCIe is an interface standard that defines how such a card communicates with a PC or laptop. This interface can be used for many different applications, e.g. for transferring video, for communicating via Ethernet, for reading smart cards etc.
2. Where should the video signal come out from? Do you want a video output connector? Or do you want the "output" be to the PC/laptop via the PCIe interface?
3. Assuming you want to capture the video from the GoPro to a PC/laptop via the PCIe card: As there is no video output connector on the GoPro (as you state in post #1 where I think you mean output jack, not input jack, see footnote) you'll have to find a point inside the GoPro where you can tap into a video signal. Not impossible in general but most likely not possible for you, being completely new to electonics.
4. Firewire, USB, PCIe, whatever interface protocoll you would use: There will be multiple conversions of the camera's intenal video signal to different intermediate formats until the video can be captured by the PC/laptop. These conversions are of a physical nature (voltage levels, impedance etc.) as well as on a logical level ( scan data from the camera, packet data over the connecting cable, MP4 data for storing the video plus possibly a few more intermediate formats.
5. Even if you had all the hardware and correct connections you still need the software to control the hardware (aka drivers) and to display or store the video.

footnote: If the camera had an input jack, the video would be input from the PC/laptop to the camera which imho makes no sense. The camera should be the source of the video., thus any connector would be an output.

Hi,

thanks for the detailed reply. I appreciate it. I also tried to reply directly by quoting some of the stuff you said, but that would only make it more confusing, ha ha. So maybe I should explain what I am "trying" to do, and it makes all more sense!?

I have a few old Camcorders. Instead of using tape for recording, you can hook up a Sony HVR-MRC1 (Memory recording unit) to the DV Out Firewire connector of the camera and record straight to CF card. Now, the Sony HVR-MRC1 is not being manufactured anymore and the only way to get one is used, for around 400- 500 bucks. I do not mind the money, but why does it have to be also 20 years old, ha ha.

This is why I started thinking about alternatives to the Sony HVR-MRC1 and/or other ways of doing this altogether. Unfortunately, there are not really any other Memory Recording Units out there, that have a firewire input. So, I was wondering on how PCIe Firewire cards work, which brought me here. : )

Having said that, my idea was to "simply" take a PCIe card and hook it up to a GoPro. : ).

When I connect my camcorder to my PC via Firewire cable, the video signal goes form the tape, through the cable, through the PCIe firewire card, into the motherboard and then... i have no idea. I am just wondering at what point the video signal can be "intercepted" and redirected to the GoPro "motherboard"?

Sorry, I know, this must sound very "weird".

Thanks.

 

[Harald Kapp]

I am just wondering at what point the video signal can be "intercepted" and redirected to the GoPro "motherboard"?

Nowhere?
Why should it go to the GoPro? The GoPro is not a recording device. The GoPro is a source of video, as is your camcorder. Connecting it to a firewire card would mean to tap into the video signal within the GoPro (on the motherboard), convert it to a firewire signal, then capture ist with the firewire card, the PC and the necessary piece of software.

I was wondering on how PCIe Firewire cards work

Firewire is a protocol for serial transmission of data. This is not limited to video but can be used for other serial data, too.
When video is transmitted via firewire the video data is converted to a firewire-compatible data stream (e.g. by the camera), then transmitted to the receiver (e.g. the memory recording unit you mentioned or a PC). There it is converted to an internal data format (e.g. MP4) and stored or displayed on a monitor. The card alone will not do the job. Ypu will need the software as mentioned in my post #5.

my idea was to "simply" take a PCIe card and hook it up to a GoPro. : )

Not simple. Not at all, as the GoPro has no firewire output (otherwise you wouldn't be here asking ).

Sorry, I know, this must sound very "weird".

Indeed. I still have no clear idea of which signal should go where in the final setup.
I take i you want to record the Video from the GoPro on a PC? In that case use the USB interface of the camera.

 

[kmd1984]

Nowhere?
Why should it go to the GoPro? The GoPro is not a recording device.

I understand that a GoPro is not considered a "traditional" recording device as it has no input, but it is recording. It records the signal output by the image sensor, which then is processed within the camera to create image data, stored on a SD card. My idea was to "replace" the output signal of the image sensor with the output signal of the PCIe card. See, I do not know if the signal created by an image sensor is the same "type" of signal created by a PCIe card. On top of that, you mentioned that a PCIe card does not create a video signal. The Software does that. This is part of the answer I was looking for. More about that later.

Firewire is a protocol for serial transmission of data. This is not limited to video but can be used for other serial data, too.

Copy that.

When video is transmitted via firewire the video data is converted to a firewire-compatible data stream (e.g. by the camera), then transmitted to the receiver (e.g. the memory recording unit you mentioned or a PC). There it is converted to an internal data format (e.g. MP4) and stored or displayed on a monitor. The card alone will not do the job. Ypu will need the software as mentioned in my post #5.

See, i thought the PCIe card will do all of that...

Not simple. Not at all, as the GoPro has no firewire output (otherwise you wouldn't be here asking ).

I did not explain it good enough. The GoPro should have a firewire in. That is what I am saying.

Indeed. I still have no clear idea of which signal should go where in the final setup. I take i you want to record the Video from the GoPro on a PC? In that case use the USB interface of the camera.

I do not want to record from a GoPro. I want to record TO a GoPro. Alright, this is what I had come up with. I understand by now that it's not going to work just like that, but nonetheless, here is how I hoped it would work:

On a Sony VX1000 camcorder light entering through the lens strikes an image sensor. The signal output by the image sensor is processed within the camera to create image data, which is stored on tape. I do not want to use tape, and since the VX1000 has a Firewire Video OUT port, I would like to record the image data directly onto a memory card. I could use a Sony HVR-MRC1 recording device, but I am looking for "better" solutions.

Now, I was hoping that the image data [created by the camera, going through a PCIe card] is the same type of video signal an image sensor, in a GoPro, creates. If that would have been the case, you could just remove the GoPro's image sensor and instead feed the image data coming from the firewire pcie card directly to the GoPros "motherboard".

I mean, this must make somewhat sense, no?

Thanks.

Edit: See those pins on the PCIe card I circled in red. I literally thought you could take a RCA cable, connect that to a VCR and record the video signal coming out of the PCIe card, ha ha. Oversimplified, but that is what I was hoping for. LOL.

 

[Harald Kapp]

I mean, this must make somewhat sense, no?

I think now I understand what you want to do. But that is not possible without major, very major modification of the GoPro's hardware and software. To be honest I think this far out your reach.

The next best solution, apart from buying that specialized memory recording unit, is probably a PCI/PCIe firewire card connectd to your PC or laptop plus the required recording software.

 

[kmd1984]

I think now I understand what you want to do. But that is not possible without major, very major modification of the GoPro's hardware and software. To be honest I think this far out your reach.

The next best solution, apart from buying that specialized memory recording unit, is probably a PCI/PCIe firewire card connectd to your PC or laptop plus the required recording software.

Harald,

No need to be modest here, I know this is way out of my reach. LOL. However, I was hoping that it was just a matter of connecting the right pieces together and it would somehow work. Maybe someone else sees what I am trying to do here and says, "Yeah, I can do that. All I have to do is connect this with that and BAM!". Ha ha.

Well, dragging a computer with you, connected to a camcorder is not going to work. HOWEVER, I thought of something else. Raspberry PI with Firewire port! I did a quick google search and found a thread about it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RASPBERRY_PI_PROJECTS/comments/qg30o6
Didn't read it yet, but I will.

So in other words: Instead of using the Sony Memory Recorder, I could use a tiny PC!? LOL.

thanks.

 

[kmd1984]

BTW, I am not giving up on this yet. I will find out what signal [exactly what type] comes out of a firewire card, what parts of the PC converts it to what, and how that signal differs from the signal coming from a GoPros image sensor... Maybe the signal is not that different and can somehow be picked up by the GoPro's image processor. If you know what I mean. : )

Vielen Dank nochmals!

 

[Delta Prime]

However, I was hoping that it was just a matter of connecting the right pieces together and it would somehow work. Maybe someone else sees what I am trying to do here and says, "Yeah, I can do that. All I have to do is connect this with that and BAM!". Ha ha.

Dude!.... Next time start off with that.
Now I know exactly what you're talking about. I've been looking everywhere but I haven't seen anybody be able to do what you described, that would be cool though.
Maybe you could be the one.
Check this out... I didn't know about this feature, maybe it could help you.

Get better video with these 7 GoPro tips and tricks

Get to know your GoPro camera intimately before your next outdoor adventure. These 7 tips and tricks will help you get there.

www.google.com

 

[Harald Kapp]

Maybe the signal is not that different

But it is.

Raspberry PI with Firewire port!

If you find the right software that would be a very compact solution. Have a look at DVGRAB. This just seems to be what you are looking for.

 

[kmd1984]

Apologies for the delayed response. On the subject matter, I am not seeking software but rather a device similar to the Sony HVR-MRC1 for diving, ha ha. Unfortunately, there isn't anything quite like it available on the market. Therefore, I am considering either building one myself or hiring someone to create it for me. However, I'm unsure of where to start in finding the right person for the job.

Currently, I use a laptop with a firewire port to capture footage from the tape to the PC. Carrying around a laptop seems impractical, which led me to explore the possibility of using a smaller device, such as a Raspberry Pi, as an SBC (Single Board Computer). By adding a firewire port and an SD card to it, along with Windows 7, a mouse, a keyboard, and a tiny screen, I could have a compact "laptop" capable of performing the same function as a regular-sized one. This way, I could utilize software like WinDV to capture the incoming signal from the firewire cable.

Operating such a tiny "PC" might not be ideal due to the challenges of navigating with a small mouse pointer. However, I am considering an alternative approach, such as running a custom firmware. I believe writing a firmware that can initiate the capture process with the press of a specific button shouldn't be overly complex. Finding someone with the skills to develop this firmware should not be too difficult, and I hope to get the job done relatively inexpensively. : )

In conclusion, the goal is to have a small box that can record an incoming firewire "stream."

Thank you.

 

[kmd1984]

I know the whole thing must look silly to someone who knows electronics, and stuff like that, but that's how someone does it who knows nothing about all this stuff... LOL.

 

[kellys_eye]

Forget Firewire - it's old tech and not in common use any more.

Get an SD card with wifi built in and stream the GoPro straight to whatever device you want - your mobile phone if you want portability.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yosoo-Health-Gear-Wireless-Transmission/dp/B0BS1C9V23/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=Wireless+SD+Card&qid=1689777646&sr=8-5

 

[kmd1984]

Forget Firewire - it's old tech and not in common use any more.

Get an SD card with wifi built in and stream the GoPro straight to whatever device you want - your mobile phone if you want portability.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yosoo-Health-Gear-Wireless-Transmission/dp/B0BS1C9V23/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=Wireless+SD+Card&qid=1689777646&sr=8-5

Hi,

The subject shifted to someone else. If you read my last post you will understand.

thanks.

 

[kmd1984]

I asked ChatGPT the following and this is the answer I got: Question:

I use software, running on a Windows PC, to capture footage from a camcorder. How can I achieve the same without running the software and windows? Is there some kind of script that I can run instead?

Reply:

"Yes, you can achieve capturing footage from a camcorder without running the software on Windows by using command-line tools and scripts. The approach will depend on your specific camcorder model and its connectivity options. Here's a general outline of the steps you can take:

1. **Determine Camcorder Connectivity:** Find out how your camcorder can connect to a computer. Common options include USB, HDMI, or SDI. Make sure you have the necessary cables and adapters.

2. **Identify Command-line Tools:** Search for command-line tools or utilities that can interact with the camcorder and capture footage. This may vary depending on your camcorder's brand and model.

3. **Use FFmpeg:** FFmpeg is a powerful open-source multimedia framework that includes command-line tools to capture and record audio/video streams from various sources, including camcorders. It supports a wide range of formats and devices. If your camcorder can be recognized as a video input device (e.g., through USB or HDMI capture card), you can use FFmpeg to capture the footage.

4. **Write a Script:** Once you have identified the appropriate command-line tool or FFmpeg commands for your camcorder, you can write a script to automate the process of capturing footage. A batch script on Windows (with .bat extension) or a bash script on Linux/macOS can be used.

Here's a general example of how a batch script for capturing video using FFmpeg might look:

```batch
@echo off
setlocal

REM Set the path to the FFmpeg executable (adjust the path if necessary)
set "FFMPEG_PATH=C:\path\to\ffmpeg.exe"

REM Set the output file name and format
set "OUTPUT_FILE=captured_video.mp4"

REM Add appropriate FFmpeg command to capture video from your camcorder (example uses USB input)
%FFMPEG_PATH% -f dshow -i video="YOUR_CAMCORDER_NAME" -c:v h264 -t 00:10:00 "%OUTPUT_FILE%"

echo Video capture completed.
pause
```

In this script, you need to replace `C:\path\to\ffmpeg.exe` with the actual path to your FFmpeg executable and `YOUR_CAMCORDER_NAME` with the name of your camcorder as recognized by FFmpeg (you can list available devices using `ffmpeg -list_devices true -f dshow -i dummy`).

Please note that the specific commands and tools required may vary depending on your camcorder's make and model, so you'll need to do some research to find the appropriate tools and commands for your setup.

Additionally, using command-line tools requires some technical knowledge, and it may not offer the same level of user-friendly features as dedicated software. Make sure to familiarize yourself with the tools and test the setup thoroughly before important recordings."

I forgot to mention that the Camcorder is connected via Firewire cable. Anyhow, I think this is the way to go. Use a SBC with SD card, Firewire Port, display and a few buttons. Then write a script that will execute when you push the button. BAM!

Thanks.

 

[kellys_eye]

I'm still puzzled. You want to use a GoPro as the camera but you also want a 'small' portable recording system to go with it - non-PC based to keep the size down?

The SD/WiFi option (assuming the GoPro takes an SD card?) would work as will this method:

Video onto the 'portable' device (phone) and do what you have to do with other video playback, manipulation software etc. Sure, it won't do it 'live' but I don't think you intend to run a cable from the GoPro to the recording device when you're underwater???

But if you want to develop software, hardware and whateverwear to do the same thing.... it's called re-inventing the wheel.

10 Or am I missing something?

Summarising:

Currently, I use a laptop with a firewire port to capture footage from the tape to the PC.

SD/WiFi installed in the camera eliminates the need for cable. If your camera doesn't take an SD Card then get one that does. If you want to take it underwater there are GoPros made for that purpose.

Carrying around a laptop seems impractical,

Use a mobile phone with appropriate apps.

However, I am considering an alternative approach, such as running a custom firmware.

Custom= expense - your money though. Wifi-to-Phone...... show me a phone that doesn't do wifi?

In conclusion, the goal is to have a small box that can record an incoming firewire "stream."

Drop the firewire. USB-C is better but wifi is all you require - even for 4k video.

GOTO 10