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Phone Jack Locations?

S

shady

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm curious about what the experts around here have to say about having the
phone jack either in or on the panel. Or, I guess, not using one at all.

I'm not sure if it's a UL requirement to have it easily available, but it
seems like a huge hole in the system's integrity.

For example, over Christmas we had a customer who had his phone line cut.
Probably only the third time it's happened in almost 15 years for us. I
went there and expected to see damage to the demarc box outside. But no,
they cut the wire coming out of the jack instead (unplugging too easy?).
Obviously it was someone familiar enough with the place to know where to
find the (not so well hidden) panel. But this seems to be a good case where
the jack should have been in the panel instead.

I've always been told that the jack should be outside so it can be unplugged
by the customer if the panel is going psycho and keeps taking over the phone
line for no reason. I doubt 5% of our customers (residential or commercial)
know about this, many don't even know where to find the panel.
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm curious about what the experts around here have to say about having
the phone jack either in or on the panel. Or, I guess, not using one at
all.

I always installed the RJ31X inside the locked panel and gave the owner the
keys to the cabinet. It reduces the likelihood of someone "accidentally"
disconnecting the panel.
I'm not sure if it's a UL requirement to have it easily available, but it
seems like a huge hole in the system's integrity.

Phone techs like to have it accessible but I never much cared what they
like. I believe it makes the system a little more secure if the RJ31X is
not easily accessible.
I've always been told that the jack should be outside
so it can be unplugged by the customer if the panel
is going psycho and keeps taking over the phone line
for no reason. I doubt 5% of our customers (residential
or commercial) know about this, many don't even
know where to find the panel.

I figure if they know where the panel is they should also be able to open it
should they need to disconnect the RJ.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
941-866-1100 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
shady said:
I'm curious about what the experts around here have to say about having the
phone jack either in or on the panel. Or, I guess, not using one at all.

I'm not sure if it's a UL requirement to have it easily available, but it
seems like a huge hole in the system's integrity.

For example, over Christmas we had a customer who had his phone line cut.
Probably only the third time it's happened in almost 15 years for us. I
went there and expected to see damage to the demarc box outside. But no,
they cut the wire coming out of the jack instead (unplugging too easy?).
Obviously it was someone familiar enough with the place to know where to
find the (not so well hidden) panel. But this seems to be a good case where
the jack should have been in the panel instead.

I've always been told that the jack should be outside so it can be unplugged
by the customer if the panel is going psycho and keeps taking over the phone
line for no reason. I doubt 5% of our customers (residential or commercial)
know about this, many don't even know where to find the panel.


RJ jacks should be installed so that the customer can easily disconnect
the system if the communicator/panel locks him out of his phone line.
That having been said, use a panel that provides supervision of the
telco jack. If that's not possible (phone line monitoring isn't an
option in programming), you can use another pair of wires in the jack to
supervise the physical connection to the jack (if someone unplugs it, it
will put a zone in the panel into "trouble"). There are also line
monitor modules available with outputs you can tie into a spare zone on
the burg panel. Some businesses are paricularly prone to "inside jobs"
where an employee may know enough to compromise the security system.
Using contacts with built-in end-of-lines, panels that monitor the
physical phone line, anti-masking PIR's, and an alternate means of
transmitting an alarm/supervisory signal to your CS (like cell backup)
will help alleviate a lot of your client's concerns in this respect. I
often find that it's particularly helpful if the system is programmed to
transmit opening and closing signals along with zone bypass information.
The customer can call the station and request status of the system as
well as when the opening/closing actually happened.
 
S

shady

Jan 1, 1970
0
RJ jacks should be installed so that the customer can easily disconnect
the system if the communicator/panel locks him out of his phone line.

Frank,

I believe you're in BC too (or at least someone around here is). So between
you and Bass, I guess it's a matter of it SHOULD be... or it MUST be...
outside the panel.

Phone jacks are one of the reasons I'm glad not to be using the Simon
systems anymore.

And in this Christmas case, there is phone line monitoring (DSC 1555), but
not much use to it when it just sets off the siren and no one hears it.
Although I added a cell backup today for them too.
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
I guess it's a matter of it SHOULD be... or it MUST be... outside the

It should be protected against tampering or inadvertant disconnection.
Outside the panel anything can happen. Inside the panel problems are less
likely to happen. Nothing is 100%. I've seen one case where a homeowner
thought the RJ31X was a convenient place to plug in an extension phone for
use while working in the basement. He forgot to restore the panel
connection, thereby disabling the monitoring. We did daily test on all
residential accounts and open/close monitoring on all commercial accounts so
the problem was discovered when they failed to send a test that night. The
keypad beeping woke them up. If the system wasn't set up for daily test
reports we might not have known the client was not being monitored.
Phone jacks are one of the reasons I'm glad not to be using the Simon
systems anymore.

And in this Christmas case, there is phone line monitoring (DSC 1555), but
not much use to it when it just sets off the siren and no one hears it.
Although I added a cell backup today for them too.

Cellular backup is a plus though some cell units are configured to only take
over once the panel tries and fails to get through. I prefer the
arrangement where the cellular takes over as soon as there's a loss of
voltage on the POTS line and the panel immediately sends a trouble report to
the central station. If your system has the options, I suggest you consider
configuring it that way. If your CS charges too much for daily tests, at
least go with weekly tests.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
941-866-1100 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Residential...attached to outside of panel.
Commercial...locked inside the panel.


| I'm curious about what the experts around here have to say about having
the
| phone jack either in or on the panel. Or, I guess, not using one at all.
|
| I'm not sure if it's a UL requirement to have it easily available, but it
| seems like a huge hole in the system's integrity.
|
| For example, over Christmas we had a customer who had his phone line cut.
| Probably only the third time it's happened in almost 15 years for us. I
| went there and expected to see damage to the demarc box outside. But no,
| they cut the wire coming out of the jack instead (unplugging too easy?).
| Obviously it was someone familiar enough with the place to know where to
| find the (not so well hidden) panel. But this seems to be a good case
where
| the jack should have been in the panel instead.
|
| I've always been told that the jack should be outside so it can be
unplugged
| by the customer if the panel is going psycho and keeps taking over the
phone
| line for no reason. I doubt 5% of our customers (residential or
commercial)
| know about this, many don't even know where to find the panel.
|
|
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
shady said:
...



Frank,

I believe you're in BC too (or at least someone around here is). So between
you and Bass, I guess it's a matter of it SHOULD be... or it MUST be...
outside the panel.

Phone jacks are one of the reasons I'm glad not to be using the Simon
systems anymore.

And in this Christmas case, there is phone line monitoring (DSC 1555), but
not much use to it when it just sets off the siren and no one hears it.
Although I added a cell backup today for them too.


The "debate" (if you want to call it that) about the RJ location has
been a topic that's frequently come up in the newsgroup. I for one
won't install an RJ jack inside a can in a residential alarm
application. Another frequent poster here advocates that it should be
and that the keys to the can be given to the home-owner. I know many
such home-owners who've asked me why we don't lock the can, but secure
the lid with sheet metal screws instead. First off, all our cans are
mounted in an out-of-the way location (never the front hall or laundry
room closet - that's just plain too obvious). The main system is always
secured behind several "layers" of alarm detection from door/window
contacts, glass breaks to PIR's. Putting the RJ jack *inside* the can
just doesn't make sense to me. Mounting the can near a place where the
jack could be viewed as a "convenient place to plug in an extension
phone for use while working in the basement" (or whatever) probably
isn't the best location for it either (I've seen cans mounted in
crawspaces and it makes troubleshooting the system a major pain).

All my customers know the reason for the RJ jack. They never touch it.
I think that if you explain it's purpose properly, your customer will
understand that it's *not* a "phone extension" but an integral part of
their security system and should only be accessed in an emergency (in
the event the panel's been compromised by lightning or a voltage surge
that may wind up frying the communicator). Putting it inside a locked
can is the equivalent of not installing it at all IMO. I know of too
many customers that have lost their key to the can over the years (it's
not something that they think is important enough to put on their
keychain and I would discourage them from doing *that* anyway). Some of
my customers are elderly. I can't imagine 68 year-old Mrs. "Smith"
taking a screw driver to the box in an attempt to pry it open so she can
unplug the RJ jack to use the phone.

You've recognized that your customer's security can be easily
compromised by a single "snip" at the side of the house. Use this in a
newsletter to the rest of your customers. Give them the option of
hardening their telephone line through upgraded physical protection and
offer them the cell backup option as well. Our contracts actually
require our customer to sign off acknowledging that they *don't* want
the cell back-up option and that they fully understand that any system
employing a digital communicator can be compromised through the loss of
the telephone line (for any reason). This last little tidbit is
something Jack Stevens posted some time ago. *That's* one of the
reasons I so enjoy this Newsgroup (and what really keeps me coming back).
 
S

shady

Jan 1, 1970
0
All my customers know the reason for the RJ jack. They never touch it.

You must have some smart customers there. I've actually had someone from
Telus take the jack from a Lynx and use it as a new jack in another room.
Mind you the system wasn't being monitored at the time, but still, it's not
even the right jack for a phone line. Come to think of it, I haven't
installed any systems for any of the local Telus employees... should be an
interesting day if I ever do.

Back to the customers though, many of ours lose their manual in the first
week (or day). Some, who have keyfobs, don't remember their own code
anymore. Others who have keyfobs insist on getting them but then leave them
hanging with the rest of the keys and forget about them. We get dozens of
calls when daylight savings time begins and ends on changing the clock.
Keypad emergency buttons? Where? I've always screwed the panels shut
instead of locking them, so I haven't had too many problems with lost keys.
Although I have the professional grade universal panel key anyway.

I kind of wish DSC would have videos included with all their kits. Sort of
like Simon did/does. We usually have our sales guy go back after a few days
for any questions/comments/more training/etc. But from a customer's
perspective, I imagine that video could be more helpful for simple
questions.

You've recognized that your customer's security can be easily compromised
by a single "snip" at the side of the house. Use this in a newsletter to
the rest of your customers.

I'm not sure that reminding a couple thousand people of this kind of thing
would be a great idea. A few of these people seem like they're getting a
system just to get a better idea of how it works. That's about 3 steps away
from using that info to break into another place.

Fortunately, in many newer homes, the demarc box is somewhere inside the
house.
 
J

JoeRaisin

Jan 1, 1970
0
We generally put them inside the can and explain what it is, where it is
(show them) and how and under what circumstances they disconnect it.

On panels like a Vista 32FB though I put it outside 'cause that is one
packed box to begin with...(for a commercial account it goes in a small
splice can connected to the main panel with an offset)
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
shady said:
...



You must have some smart customers there.


Nope. Just ones that have been educated properly. :)

I've actually had someone from
Telus take the jack from a Lynx and use it as a new jack in another room.

Mind you the system wasn't being monitored at the time, but still, it's not
even the right jack for a phone line. Come to think of it, I haven't
installed any systems for any of the local Telus employees... should be an
interesting day if I ever do.

The guys I work with frequently all know how to install an "eight
position jack".

Back to the customers though, many of ours lose their manual in the first
week (or day).

I have customers that can pull out the manual from the refridgerator
they purchased in 1963. I have one guy that's kept all the owners
manuals for every Ford (plus one Edsel) he's owned since 1949.

Some, who have keyfobs, don't remember their own code
anymore.

I can't remember my own home phone number... It's "2" on my cell
phone's speed dialer. :)

Others who have keyfobs insist on getting them but then leave them
hanging with the rest of the keys and forget about them. We get dozens of
calls when daylight savings time begins and ends on changing the clock.
Keypad emergency buttons? Where? I've always screwed the panels shut
instead of locking them, so I haven't had too many problems with lost keys.
Although I have the professional grade universal panel key anyway.

Is that the long silver one with the big rubber handle on the end??
Mine says "KLEIN" on the side!! :)

I kind of wish DSC would have videos included with all their kits.

Make your own. It's not that hard. We've done that and used the
"upgraded keypads" in it as well... It's an excellent marketing tool.
I don't know how many fixed English keypads I've upgraded to the custom
LCD. You try to sell 'em to the customer initially and most will say "I
just need a basic security system, not something really fancy to look
at", or "Money's a bit tight right now. Give me the basics and we'll go
from there". After they see the video a few times, about 95% will call
back and want to upgrade. Works great for selling "perimeter
protection" as well. If you *show* someone how something works they'll
*see* the benefit much more readily. We've started leaving the video
(on VHS, DVD or CD) as part of the sales presentation. The sales guys
love it.

Sort of
like Simon did/does. We usually have our sales guy go back after a few days
for any questions/comments/more training/etc. But from a customer's
perspective, I imagine that video could be more helpful for simple
questions.

It is, believe me.

I'm not sure that reminding a couple thousand people of this kind of thing
would be a great idea. A few of these people seem like they're getting a
system just to get a better idea of how it works. That's about 3 steps away
from using that info to break into another place.

That's been often debated here as well. Most of the perps are so strung
out on drugs these days, they figure yanking the interior siren box off
the wall means they've disabled the system. When the "men in blue" show
up they're still in the house searching for loot.

Fortunately, in many newer homes, the demarc box is somewhere inside the
house.


The Telus nimrods must be smarter in your end of town.
 
S

shady

Jan 1, 1970
0
Nope. Just ones that have been educated properly. :)

Would be nice if I could go back and follow up on training myself. Just
doesn't happen though. We had a huge rash of break ins over Christmas, I'm
the only installer for our little company in our little town, and we're
booked for the next month or two solid. Time is simply not an option
anymore.

There's more Telus stories, but maybe another day. Or was the sigh for
someone actually using a Lynx system? If so, I agree, especially the ones
where the batteries can be removed from the top of the panel. But it was
there before I was, so I was kinda stuck with it.
I have customers that can pull out the manual from the refridgerator they
purchased in 1963. I have one guy that's kept all the owners manuals for
every Ford (plus one Edsel) he's owned since 1949.

We have a couple people like this. On the other hand, we also have a few
people who have their codes written on a card, under the panel. You guessed
it, Simon 2's from the doorknocker sales people.
Is that the long silver one with the big rubber handle on the end?? Mine
says "KLEIN" on the side!! :)

Not quite... mine is a two piece key. The first piece in a long silver one
with a plastic handle on one end and a flat blade on the other. The other
piece strongly resembles a hammer.

The Telus nimrods must be smarter in your end of town.

If this is Telus smart, I can't wait till I get enough brain damage to get
hired. If that doesn't pan out, I could always look forward to a career as
a drywaller. :)
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
I use a cordless panel key...works great. I love when all the pins fly out
of the lock.
 
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